What Weapons Got Unfairly Nerfed for Competitive?

[AlastairKD]

Because it's easier to explain here than in the title, I'll elaborate on what I mean. Valve balancing vanilla game weapons based around Competitive TF2 was a HUGE mistake on their part. Vanilla TF2 and Comp TF2 are almost completely different games in both their team comps, weapon pools, and metas. It is a horrible idea to change weapon stats based around the Competitive playerbase when it does not translate well back over to the Vanilla game.

I'll start by giving an example:

The GRU/Eviction Notice

Both of these weapons were in a really good spot before the Jungle Inferno update. It gave Heavy more speed at the cost of being marked and taking mini-crit damage while the gloves were in use and for a couple seconds after switching off. Their upsides weren't powerful enough to warrant the downside of draining max health, especially since that was how they first came out and the very thing Valve AVOIDED wanting to do when they added the "Marked for Death" mechanic to them in the Pyromania update. The Eviction Notice also already had a low usage rate due to just being a worse GRU and was only seen as a meme weapon for casual fun, Post-Jungle Inferno the Eviction Notice is basically dead.

Keep in mind, it didnt need to be changed for comp to begin with because Heavy already had one of the LOWEST pick rates in the 6v6 competitive format. So Heavy having extra speed to roll out to Mid faster was basically a non-issue from the beginning.

[76561198161596995]

Publicado originalmente por SimplySmiley:

Publicado originalmente por Vror:

It is funny but stickies being good in combat is healthy for the class and Game, it solves issues no other classes can while having clear weaknesses as a whole

You have a grenade launcher, use that maybe?
Overreliance on stickies imo is the unhealthy thing for the class, you effectively have two primaries with a sticky launcher.

grenades are not demo's actual primary and this expectation that they're secretly as reliable as rockets and demo players just cant / dont want to use them is weird and misguided

[Mcfighter2]

Publicado originalmente por Spartykins ❤:

ubersaw becomes stock

crossbow becomes stock

medic is fine now

You'd have to put "no uber on hit" and "+whatever% swing speed" on everything else that isn't an ubersaw. That seems like a lot of work for no payoff.
Crossbow just needs some sort of nerf, not to put it on the level of the other syringe guns, but just to fix the most broken aspects of it (passive reload, not healing disguised enemy spies, and being able to do substantial damage). Don't make it stock.

[Mcfighter2]

Publicado originalmente por Cat_Soldier:

this item server crash proves that everything can become stock and the game will only get funner

every server i have been in has been saying this is the most fun they had. there really is no “stale meta” in this game. much like cs, the fun comes from the interactions with other players and figuring out how to overcome it.

Yes! The fact that people cannot use weapons that make things more stale, repetitive, and annoying (wrangler, crossbow, razorback, danger shield, vaccinator, short circuit, diamondback, kunai, and more) makes things more fun.

[Watereaters]

Publicado originalmente por AlastairKD:

Publicado originalmente por Watereaters:

Hardscoping can be nerfed by giving it better indication, personally I think the rifle should have a laser beam sight when it is scoped instead of a dot, and the rifle makes a noticeable whine when it scopes in and an audible low hum while it is scoped in.

Hardscoping doesnt need a nerf, it's already punishable by it neutering Sniper's situational awareness. Nerfing quickscoping forces Sniper to hardscope more often and commit to his shots and positioning better.

That's how I would nerf it, so that the deaths to it are less cheap as you had indication to it (similar to getting killed by a sentry because you didn't pay attention to the beeping), it also makes engaging a Sniper at long ranges more fun since you are able to see where he is aiming and play around that instead of hiding since you have to assume he's watching the whole area if the dot isn't visible.

[Sedrido]

players will balance all the fun out of the game if given the chance

[[CHaoS] Sw1ft]

I completely agree that Balancing weapons primarily for Competitive play can have negative effects on the overall experience of playing Vanilla TF2. The changes made to the GRU and Eviction Notices are perfect examples of this issue. These weapons provided Heavy with increased mobility without making him too overpowered, but the post-Jungle Inferno updates significantly reduced their viability, effectively killing the Eviction Notice. Given Heavy's already low pick rate in 6v6 competitive formats, adding more speed to reach mid wasn't a major concern.

Another instance where Valve may have gone too far with nerfs aimed towards Competitive balance is the Short Circuit. This weapon used to be able to block projectiles much more efficiently, allowing Engineers to protect themselves and their buildings better against Sentry Busters or sticky spam. However, its effectiveness was greatly diminished following several consecutive nerfs, which affected its performance even in Vanilla matches.

It would be ideal if Valve could strike a balance between maintaining weapon diversity and fairness across all modes. They should consider revisiting some of these poorly received adjustments, keeping in mind the unique characteristics and requirements of Casual play.

[SimplySmiley]

Publicado originalmente por #KILLTF2:

I completely agree that Balancing weapons primarily for Competitive play can have negative effects on the overall experience of playing Vanilla TF2. The changes made to the GRU and Eviction Notices are perfect examples of this issue. These weapons provided Heavy with increased mobility without making him too overpowered, but the post-Jungle Inferno updates significantly reduced their viability, effectively killing the Eviction Notice. Given Heavy's already low pick rate in 6v6 competitive formats, adding more speed to reach mid wasn't a major concern.

Another instance where Valve may have gone too far with nerfs aimed towards Competitive balance is the Short Circuit. This weapon used to be able to block projectiles much more efficiently, allowing Engineers to protect themselves and their buildings better against Sentry Busters or sticky spam. However, its effectiveness was greatly diminished following several consecutive nerfs, which affected its performance even in Vanilla matches.

It would be ideal if Valve could strike a balance between maintaining weapon diversity and fairness across all modes. They should consider revisiting some of these poorly received adjustments, keeping in mind the unique characteristics and requirements of Casual play.

Honestly to me Short Circuit got nerfed while buffed at the same time.
It's not as easy to spam and as reliable, but now you get much longer range on top of flashbanging whoever's in front of you.

If anything a better example to me is the Caber.
Ya know the one, the one that was mostly used to bully Snipers on 2Fort and got gimped so badly you can't even do that without getting a crit from shields or a kritzkrieg. All because Scouts and Medics could be one-shot by it which, honestly imo wasn't any different from those two getting bombed by a random Soldier or Demo already.

[Bob]

Zesty Science fanatic spotted.

[Ozone]

Guys can we actually answer the "What Weapons Got Unfairly Nerfed for Competitive?" question instead of going into this unnecessarily long rant that spans multiple pages?
Casual and Comp are very different environments.
imo it's better if a weapon is good in Casual & OP in Comp than if it is bad in Casual & ok in Comp. Bc Comp formats can just ban said OP weapon. Meanwhile with the second option, the vastly larger portion of the playerbase is left with a weapon that straight-up sucks in the main 12v12 Casual game plan

[Raz'Hikel]

Rest in peace ambassador…Find your way home to balancemods…

[72deadmice]

Publicado originalmente por Raz'Hikel:

Rest in peace ambassador…Find your way home to balancemods…

ambassador is OP what are you talking about

[Vror]

Publicado originalmente por Ozone:

Guys can we actually answer the "What Weapons Got Unfairly Nerfed for Competitive?" question instead of going into this unnecessarily long rant that spans multiple pages?
Casual and Comp are very different environments.
imo it's better if a weapon is good in Casual & OP in Comp than if it is bad in Casual & ok in Comp. Bc Comp formats can just ban said OP weapon. Meanwhile with the second option, the vastly larger portion of the playerbase is left with a weapon that straight-up sucks in the main 12v12 Casual game plan

None.

Some may have been overnerfed, but every single one of them that was nerfed BECAUSE of competitive reasons, deserved it

[malignant]

Publicado originalmente por Ozone:

Meanwhile with the second option, the vastly larger portion of the playerbase is left with a weapon that straight-up sucks in the main 12v12 Casual game plan

most unlocks straight up suck in the main 12v12 casual game plan and by no fault of competitive.
the only people who care are quasi-brainlets that only marginally gaf, and do so because it's an easy way to reaffirm their seething hatred for players who dare take the game seriously. everyone else is content playing with their meme weapons.

[SPAMTON G. SPAMTON]

the base jumber

[UNBREAKABLE]

Publicado originalmente por AdamHendrick:

the base jumber

Meh, kind of warranted. Soldier and demo being able to move in the air is balanced by their movement being predictable - base jumper through that out the window with the crazy air control mixed with crazy air time.

Only really applies on a higher level though.