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you're a hipster who doesnt wanna use the meta despite the meta being there for a reason (stock and uber are the best)
with that being said, would you rather two medics with stock/kritz or one medic with stock/kritz and the other just playing heal bot?
putting the pressure on the other medic to milk the most value out of his uber while you sit around with your weak megaheal doing ♥♥♥♥-all isn't really preferred.
Do keep in mind that regardless of the weapon's build-rate stats, you're still hurting the other medic's build-rate just by sucking heals away from him. The least you can do is use a real medigun so at least both ubers are being built towards something useful.
it's prob better if ur the only med because at least then, you can actually utilize your faster build rate without other meds interfering.
Metas are for Betas and Tiers are for Steers.
Alphas and Apex Predators play their way!
Also crossbow isn't just used for long ranged healing. It's burst healing is better than medigun, and isn't affected by crit heals, allowing you to pump out more healing than you could with beamers on players who are still in combat.
You can't say you play a lot of medic and then in the same train of thought try and argue that literally any health reduction to medic is justifiable.
The Overdose's penalty is so miniscule that the self defense aspect isn't lost at all. Oh wow, now you have to hit one or two more syringes, as if that decides whether you live or die. Not to mention, the enemy runs into the syringes because he's chasing you, so either he has more time to reconsider until the 1-2 extra syringes hit, or he's tunnel visioned so hard on you that he dies anyway. You want them to back off first and foremost. The difference is one kill if anything, and your survival is the more important thing, which the speed boost accomplishes.
Honestly, using the crossbow in melee range always felt stupid. You have a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Medigun. If it's the Quick-Fix, as that's being discussed in this thread, it's even obsolete, as you heal faster with it instead of point blank crossbow bolts. With any other Medigun, okay, you burst heal faster, but if you whiff one shot because your patient is moving stupidly or whatever, your "burst heal" is zero. I don't miss them, but I can't tell you how many fools are missing me standing still or moving in a straight line as a Heavy.
The Overdose is a genuinely good sidegrade. It's just not the Crossbow, and this is why it's overseen by everyone.
Read again: I said that -10 health might as well be nothing. You now get 2-hit by a Shortstop, or one-hit by a minicrit Scattergun. The closest meaningful threshold to me is 135 hp, where the minimum splash damage of a crocket kills you.
With a 150 health pool, you either live way above 10 health, or you die. To clarify: Pipes and Scatterguns deal ~100 damage, Shotguns and rockets deal ~90 damage. The ONLY way you get below 10 health is through chip damage, stray explosions and continuous damage. All of which alert you of danger and thus, you will be able to retreat unless you're in too deep. Which the Overdose can help with, by the way. It's not bad positioning if the pocket got hit by a crit, but the Overdose is a good failsafe for that.
If it makes you happy, the Medic duels are lost more frequently, where you shoot crossbow bolts across the map, as 75 + 75 doesn't kill a Medic who has passive regen unless he's got a Vita-Saw equipped. Also, fire damage and afterburn becomes more threatening with less health.
Medic is the class that is most impacted by health penalties, and just -5 more health on the Vita-Saw are enough to call this downside meaningful. But -10 health? It's a nothing-stat, and I stand by that opinion. In fact, I will commit to it, and only play Medic with the Vita-Saw for a while, and then I can report back if it has impacted my survivability meaningfully. Who knows, maybe I am in the wrong? After all, I've never really played with the Vita-Saw, because why would I?
If only there was a strange Vita-Saw...
have 2 meds is good on servers with lots of players, e.g 64 and 100 player servers.
realistically the only use for the weapon is trying to escape when you've got a substantial amount of uber built. Otherwise you're even more defenseless than if you were using any other syringe guns, and your teammates have to come to you for heals anyways making the faster move speed pointless outside of escape.
I suppose -10% isn't much, but medic by itself is already a pretty miserable combat class and making yourself even worse for an upside you can replicate by just beaming a scout isn't really worth it tbh.
not the point of the argument. the blutsager and crossbow all allow you to defend yourself immensely better, further diminishing the use-cases of the weapon.
I'm not even going to address your point about point blank crossbows. If you don't have a solid grasp on crithealing then I cannot even begin to describe to you why being able to completely negate that mechanic with the crossbow in 50-80 hp increments is incredibly powerful. More-so then moving at a little bit under scout speed.
thresholds don't really matter in regards to my argument. Discussion in theoreticals only goes so far and is really only useful for rough gameplay generalizations like pills doing 100 and noscopes doing 50. TF2 encounters do not occur in a vacuum. fall damage, afterburn, hitscan chip, and splash can all tip you over the edge to where a situation in which you should've lived ends up killing you.
Playing around thresholds is automatically setting yourself up for failure as there are so many extraneous variables that can mess with them to the point that you're gambling your life every time you go into an encounter with this very limited idea of how interactions will play out.
Say you confront a demo at 106 health; yes, you won't technically die to a single pill, it still would not make logical sense to take the risk of eating potential damage and becoming a 1sk regardless of your current health situation.
Again, if you've played medic for any substantial amount of time I'm sure you've become aware of the instances in which you've survived with hardly any health left. Even if you only want to play around thresholds, surviving at 90 health is better than surviving at 80 health because that's the full amount of damage you can expect to take from afterburn. Surviving at 60 health is much more preferable than 50 because of noscopes, 32 instead of 22 since that's pistol's base damage, and so on.
Medic's health is a precious resource that you should always want to have an excess of in case of danger. While the instances in which these trivial numbers actually impact the game are sparce, would you take the gamble every life?
dude rockets and pipes are only 22% of the classes you face.
Even then, chip damage isn't what gets you that low. 2 rocket splashing 70 damage apeice will put you at 10 HP.
any1 with a shotgun hit 2-3 shots could put you anywhere from a flesh wound to you only being alive from passive healing.
a sniper could hit you with near full scope charge but you live by the skin of your teeth.
There are many MANY more cases where a meer 5-10 health difference means life or death.
Also, it's not about combat, it's about self-defense. I guess they can mean the same thing, but the meaningful difference to me is that you aren't going for someone's death, but your survival.
The Crossbow is horrible for self-defense though. Why would you do 50 damage every second instead of poking them with 100 DPS (90 for the Overdose)? Not to mention that you must still aim with the Crossbow while you spray syringes anywhere behind you.
As for the Blutsauger: It is better for survival because of the +3 health on hit, not because of the single point of damage on every syringe. And movement speed is possibly one of the most valuable combat stats (see Scout), which is why the Overdose does well enough.
I don't get how crit heals are relevant to this topic. I already said that point blank crossbow shots have their place, I just find them stupid. It's a personal thing, not objective truth. I thought it was clear enough that it's an opinion, but apparently I worded it poorly. My bad.
I know. Thresholds alone are an oversimplification. I thought I made it clear though that getting below 10 health usually takes something that doesn't kill quickly (or Heavy, who does kill quickly). In fact, I mentioned damage sources that can't be applied to thresholds, and that it needs these types of damage.
I still think that thresholds are a decent thing to measure survival though, because if played optimally, a rocket, pipe or meatshot will always connect to you for basically maximum damage. You plan for that to happen, so you won't be running around with low health and without cover from your teammates.
If I see myself at 106 health, I know I'm safe enough. If I get hit by a pipe afterwards, that's a big problem. If the damage came from, let's assume, a Sniper's bodyshot because he missed your head, I might survive the pipe due to my passive regen. In the same scenario but with the Vita-Saw, I would be dead. Point taken.
However, if I see myself getting hit from above 100 health, the threat level is similar to getting hit from full health (or 130 health, which I consider the next highest threshold). If I get hit by a pipe at full health or anywhere above 100, I'll be more careful to not eat another pipe or other incoming fire. The Vita-Saw had no influence in that scenario, and if I see myself at <50 health (as would be the case with the Vita-Saw, but also with anything else), it means that I should leave anyway.
While not exhaustive or definitive, thresholds are still a good way to measure how dangerous a situation is. You won't say "I hope I don't get hit by 5 pistol shots now," but you would be careful for stray rockets and pipes going your way. Being at 2 or 12 health barely makes a difference. Being at 92 or 102 health does. And of course, being dead or at 2 health makes a difference too, but in the first case, you must have passed the 100 health threshold to reach that point.
Yes, I did have my moments where I survived with low health. I know that it happens often enough. That being said, you would behave the same as a Medic with the Vita-Saw as you would with any other melee. You see you're low, you play safer. It applies to any melee, at any health. It just so happens that the Vita-Saw reaches that health earlier. You focus on how much damage you took, while I focus on how much health you have left. One gets you killed if played the same way with the Vita-Saw, the other doesn't.
Let's say you get a no-charge bodyshot, as the Sniper missed your head (also let's ignore the fact that we're out in the open with a Sniper peeking). If I'm at 100 health now, I continue onward, as my health will regen above 100. If I'm at 90 health now, I check for immediate dangers, and move accordingly, knowing that it takes me just the tiniest bit longer to regen above 100.
Like I said, I've never really played with the Vita-Saw myself, and I probably wouldn't main it because of the -10 health. However, I would lie if I said that I'm not using the Vita-Saw because it gets me killed more often. I simply play any melee because I can. Actually, I used to swear by the Solemn Vow, as going melee as a Medic is usually suicide anyway.
Oof, this became a bigger wall of text than I meant it to be. I guess that's what I meant when I said I'll die on that hill.
Anyway, you always assume that whatever can hit you deals maximum damage. If it's a shotgun, it will deal 90 damage at point blank, no less, or 50 damage at mid range. You'll never calculate the odds of not all pellets connecting, leaving you at single digit health. Either you live X hits, or you die. Lastly, you won't play with the Vita-Saw as if you had another melee and 10 more health at the exact moment. You are at low health, you act like you're at low health.