Spy is the most pointless class in Tf2

[charky]

Everyone's still taking the bait even after I clearly stated it was bait :P
Oh well.

Like the title said. Spy is the most pointless class in Team Fortress 2. His impact on the game is so minimal that if you removed him from the game, nobody would notice.

1. Spy is completely hampered by enemy competence
Even if you were the world's best Spy, if the enemy team had an ounce of intelligence and constantly checked their backs and called out Spies whenever they saw them, all your skill invested into the class would be for naught. A Spy is too squishy and relies too much on a dumb opponent to make the best out of his potential. Pyros, Spy's natural enemy and hard counter require minimal skill to work well and a Pyro operating on minimal skill is enough to shut down veteran Spies. This brings us into the next point .....

2. Spy's skill:reward ratio is completely skewered
The skill required for a Spy to excel is insanely high. The time invested into him could be better placed into another class such as Soldier and Demoman. Even if you were a good Spy, luck and basic situational awareness on the enemy team's part would be enough to waste you.

3. There is nothing Spy can do, any class can't do better
Spy was designed to spread paranoia into the enemy, assassinate priority targets and slow down enemy advancement. The design and concept was interesting but the execution was horrible on Valve's part. Taking out priority targets? Scout and Sniper can fare much better. Spread paranoia and panic? When the enemy team has half a brain and a Pyro worth his salt, that so-called panic will all but evaporate from the enemy team.

Sapping sentries? The effort is, to say the least, too much for such a simple task. Why spend minutes sneaking into the enemy base, jumping at shadows and avoiding enemy hostiles before sapping the buildings only to have all your time wasted by a crit wrench and a couple of whacks ruining all your hard work? Soldiers and Demoman can simply exploit the sentry's blind spots and finish it off faster, quicker and easier than a Spy.

To sum up, Spy was a fun concept Valve built but the execution was flawed. Spy should either be removed from the game completely rather than sit as a waste of player slots or be completely redisigned.

[COUNT FREAKULA]

Escrito originalmente por PAPike:

You guys are forgetting that in competitive, a spys main goal is not killing

I know, info feeding, but, picks are still possible, as well as trying to be more gung ho.

[Jorde]

Escrito originalmente por Donald Trump:

Escrito originalmente por Jordedude1234:

Your team has to push sometime. If they're not pushing or holding a point at all, then why do you think you can even win?

If you go up behind a sentry nest you'll be spotted the second you decloak, 5 frontier justice engineers will rush you with the never ending crits and you'll be dead in no time. You might get to sap one but it's useless, they'll destroy it. Heavies are easy targets for spies but even easier for sniper. He kills the heavy quicker and doesn't reveal himself (Normally) in the process. Also you make it sound like it's easy to avoid a pyro it really isn't. Pybro's will actively hunt for spies and even when trying to backstab someone you sometimes have a pyro right behind you.

A spy's life is worth it for killing an engie and an established sentry gun on offense.

[Dutch Van der Linde (real)]

Escrito originalmente por Nicole The Drunk Shapeshifter:

Escrito originalmente por PAPike:

You guys are forgetting that in competitive, a spys main goal is not killing

I know, info feeding, but, picks are still possible, as well as trying to be more gung ho.

I'm talking to mainly OP who is basing his ideas that spy is pointless on pubs

[Athenia]

First of all, I'm guessing someone dominated you while you were playing as spy. Second of all, can you go invisible, disguise as a scout, and spam X-5 as a soldier? I think not.

[Jonathan Sensei]

Escrito originalmente por PAPike:

Escrito originalmente por Nicole The Drunk Shapeshifter:

I know, info feeding, but, picks are still possible, as well as trying to be more gung ho.

I'm talking to mainly OP who is basing his ideas that spy is pointless on pubs

He had said earlier in the thread that this was about comp and not pubs.

[Ozyruz]

I agree that Snipers are able to assassinate high-value targets with little to no risk, I agree that Demomen and Soldiers can defeat sentries faster, I agree that Scout can distract or slow down an enemy advancement by dodging damage and returning it. However, not every class can do another's job whenever he wants, Spy's sapper is much more effective in disabling sentries so that another class can finish off the sentry while the Engineer is distracted. Spy's revolver could be more of a distraction so that a Scout can have a chance to make a play, Spy's invisability could be better used to inform his team of where the enemy may be pushing, don't forget that this a team-based game..

[Dutch Van der Linde (real)]

Escrito originalmente por ⒸⓄⒻⒻⒾⓃ:

Escrito originalmente por PAPike:

I'm talking to mainly OP who is basing his ideas that spy is pointless on pubs

He had said earlier in the thread that this was about comp and not pubs.

Well than he shouldn't say
"To have your time wasted by a crit wrench" and basing it off of killing, while spy is Great for picks, his main goal, then again,Is not killing

[COUNT FREAKULA]

Escrito originalmente por PAPike:

Escrito originalmente por Nicole The Drunk Shapeshifter:

I know, info feeding, but, picks are still possible, as well as trying to be more gung ho.

I'm talking to mainly OP who is basing his ideas that spy is pointless on pubs

Ah, even then, with no co ordination. You just do whatever you want really, I won't lie, playing pub Spy is easy, until random crits come into the equation, then I want to hang myself.

[Ozyruz]

Escrito originalmente por ⒸⓄⒻⒻⒾⓃ:

Escrito originalmente por PAPike:

I'm talking to mainly OP who is basing his ideas that spy is pointless on pubs

He had said earlier in the thread that this was about comp and not pubs.

Escrito originalmente por ¬°Shark:

Sapping sentries? The effort is, to say the least, too much for such a simple task. Why spend minutes sneaking into the enemy base, jumping at shadows and avoiding enemy hostiles before sapping the buildings only to have all your time wasted by a crit wrench and a couple of whacks ruining all your hard work? Soldiers and Demoman can simply exploit the sentry's blind spots and finish it off faster, quicker and easier than a Spy.

[Dutch Van der Linde (real)]

Escrito originalmente por Corduroy:

I agree that Snipers are able to assassinate high-value targets with little to no risk, I agree that Demomen and Soldiers can defeat sentries faster, I agree that Scout can distract or slow down an enemy advancement by dodging damage and returning it. However, not every class can do another's job whenever he wants, Spy's sapper is much more effective in disabling sentries so that another class can finish off the sentry while the Engineer is distracted. Spy's revolver could be more of a distraction so that a Scout can have a chance to make a play, Spy's invisability could be better used to inform his team of where the enemy may be pushing, don't forget that this a team-based game..

The thing is, one of the most popular plays/combos is for a spy to spam his Sapper on the sentry and even if he dies, a demo or soldier can take it out with no risk

[Dutch Van der Linde (real)]

Escrito originalmente por Nicole The Drunk Shapeshifter:

Escrito originalmente por PAPike:

I'm talking to mainly OP who is basing his ideas that spy is pointless on pubs

Ah, even then, with no co ordination. You just do whatever you want really, I won't lie, playing pub Spy is easy, until random crits come into the equation, then I want to hang myself.

When talking balancing, I mainly focus on competitive even though I don't play it often

[78pac7]

This is the best quality b8 I've ever seen!

[Dutch Van der Linde (real)]

Escrito originalmente por Squidbarrel:

This is the best quality b8 I've ever seen!

[Ozyruz]

Escrito originalmente por PAPike:

Escrito originalmente por Corduroy:

I agree that Snipers are able to assassinate high-value targets with little to no risk, I agree that Demomen and Soldiers can defeat sentries faster, I agree that Scout can distract or slow down an enemy advancement by dodging damage and returning it. However, not every class can do another's job whenever he wants, Spy's sapper is much more effective in disabling sentries so that another class can finish off the sentry while the Engineer is distracted. Spy's revolver could be more of a distraction so that a Scout can have a chance to make a play, Spy's invisability could be better used to inform his team of where the enemy may be pushing, don't forget that this a team-based game..

The thing is, one of the most popular plays/combos is for a spy to spam his Sapper on the sentry and even if he dies, a demo or soldier can take it out with no risk

One sapper should be enough to gain a 2s advantage point so another Soldier or Demo could bomb the sentry, assuming you're able to effectively communicate with each other and you're both in range..

[Jorde]

Escrito originalmente por Squidbarrel:

This is the best quality b8 I've ever seen!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GuaRNbhlyU