Why the new quickie bomb launcher needs a nerf.

[sneed clave]

Hold on before you tell me " you're just fookin butthurt cos you got rekt by it and got salty then decided to make a thread to ♥♥♥♥♥ and moan about it to valve".

No I did not get rekt at all I just used it and then was disguisted by how op and now I'll explain why it's op

let's start with the buffs that it got in meet your match.

-charge time reduction increased from 50% to 70%

so what this means is previously quickie bomb launcher could fully charge a sticky in 2 seconds now it takes 1.2 seconds to fully charge a sticky.

-Increased damage bonus for (max) charged shots to +35% (from +25%)

before this buff fully charged quickie bomb stickies had a base damage of 128 but now base damage on fully charged quickie bomb stickies is 138

-Removed "Stickybombs fizzle 4 seconds after landing"

This is the most stupidiest buff out of all the other changes because this weapon isn't supposed to be a defensive weapon it's supposed to be used as a long range high damage offensive alternative to the stock sticky bomb launcher

and now the only nerf it got it is

- increased clip size penalty from 25% to 50%
This is the only ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ downside beside the damage penalty which can be avoided by charging

The 0.5 arm time on it stays the same.

The best way to make it balanced again is to just revert every changes made to it in the meet your match update and that's all I've got to say about it.

If you don't think it's not op feel free to post and explain why.

[Shit Guy]

Feitlebaum님이 먼저 게시:

Toyfan1: The Keyboard Warrior님이 먼저 게시:

all regular crit melee hits 1 hit a scout

>using crits as an argument

I can look up more weapons that 1 hit the glass cannon classes if youd like

There's exactly two other weapons that I can think of that one-shot Scouts: Direct Hit and Stickybomb Launcher, but both only one-shot with rampup. The Direct Hit would be balanced if they changed the amount of rampup, because one-shots are stupid, and the Stickybomb Launcher almost never one-shots because you don't use the Stickybomb Launcher against Scouts at close range.

Does anybody besides lavafoxx actually think that one-shots are fair on anything besides the Knife and Sniper Rifle?

Yes, there's nothing wrong with the current state of the Direct Hit in my eyes and I speak as a scout main that thoroughly enjoys offclassing DH and Conch, and the Stickybomb Launcher can only onehit a scout in one in a million scenarios, or if he's dodging so embarrassingly poorly he deserves it
It's a mechanic that should be avoided, but I believe it fits all weapons it's currently on
Except the Crit-a-Cola
Mark the scout for death whilst the effect is active and remove the damage vuln, like it used to be, the only thing wrong with it back then was the short duration
Edit: I figured it would be implied at time of posting from my other posts in this thread, but I also oppose the Quickiebomb being able to, just figured I should clarify

[Kitt 🌟 Stargazer]

Hyper G-MAN님이 먼저 게시:

i agree, its a straight upgrade now

I dunno if I'd go that far honestly. The 4 clip is actually a little detrimental to an extent. I definitely don't like it if we actually have a good medic on our team and he wants to uber me for pushes. I'd much rather use the stock sticky launcher for that over the quickie.

I do wish they'd revert it though, as I liked how the Quickie Launcher worked before they just.... for whatever reason decided to change it from what it was though. It felt unique enough to stand out well on it's own, but situational enough to not be a direct upgrade over stock.

[Toyfan1]

Feitlebaum님이 먼저 게시:

Toyfan1: The Keyboard Warrior님이 먼저 게시:

all regular crit melee hits 1 hit a scout

>using crits as an argument

And?

And if you are saying you shouldnt be using a sticky launcher at close range, why would someone use a different sticky bomb launcher that requires a longer time to do more damage?

As I said I can do the research find out which weapons can one hit a scout. Such as the stock sticky launcher
One hit him with full ramp up,
Hell you can one hit him without a rampup if he had the sandman. The quickie cant do that.

[m'boy are you fat]

Toyfan1: The Keyboard Warrior님이 먼저 게시:

Feitlebaum님이 먼저 게시:

>using crits as an argument

And?

And if you are saying you shouldnt be using a sticky launcher at close range, why would someone use a different sticky bomb launcher that requires a longer time to do more damage?

As I said I can do the research find out which weapons can one hit a scout. Such as the stock sticky launcher
One hit him with full ramp up,
Hell you can one hit him without a rampup if he had the sandman. The quickie cant do that.

Because, unlike the Stickybomb Launcher, the Quickie can:
1. Be used at a closer range, due to shorter detonation times,
2. Can one-shot at medium range, given time to charge your shot.

[Shit Guy]

Toyfan1: The Keyboard Warrior님이 먼저 게시:

Feitlebaum님이 먼저 게시:

>using crits as an argument

And?

And if you are saying you shouldnt be using a sticky launcher at close range, why would someone use a different sticky bomb launcher that requires a longer time to do more damage?

As I said I can do the research find out which weapons can one hit a scout. Such as the stock sticky launcher
One hit him with full ramp up,
Hell you can one hit him without a rampup if he had the sandman. The quickie cant do that.

RNG isn't reliable, cannot be accounted for and therefore shouldn't be factored into discussions on balance, since it inherently unbalances games and causes tilts.
Stock, as I said before, can only onehit a light class with rampup that will only occour if the scout dodges embarrassingly poorly, or in literal one in a million scenarios. I've been onehit by a sticky all of once in my TF2 career, and have never done it to anyone else.
That is the downside of the Sandman. Rockets can do the same, that's because you're below the lowest health pool in the base game, and accept that risk by equipping it.

[Toyfan1]

Feitlebaum님이 먼저 게시:

Toyfan1: The Keyboard Warrior님이 먼저 게시:

And?

And if you are saying you shouldnt be using a sticky launcher at close range, why would someone use a different sticky bomb launcher that requires a longer time to do more damage?

As I said I can do the research find out which weapons can one hit a scout. Such as the stock sticky launcher
One hit him with full ramp up,
Hell you can one hit him without a rampup if he had the sandman. The quickie cant do that.

Because, unlike the Stickybomb Launcher, the Quickie can:
1. Be used at a closer range, due to shorter detonation times,
2. Can one-shot at medium range, given time to charge your shot.

It can be barely used at short range. Mainly because A) You spam it, doing less damage
Or B) charge it, but then you're just giving who ever is shooting you more of a reason to get closer and shoot you more.

Ponpoko the Raccoon Rascal님이 먼저 게시:

Toyfan1: The Keyboard Warrior님이 먼저 게시:

And?

And if you are saying you shouldnt be using a sticky launcher at close range, why would someone use a different sticky bomb launcher that requires a longer time to do more damage?

As I said I can do the research find out which weapons can one hit a scout. Such as the stock sticky launcher
One hit him with full ramp up,
Hell you can one hit him without a rampup if he had the sandman. The quickie cant do that.

RNG isn't reliable, cannot be accounted for and therefore shouldn't be factored into discussions on balance, since it inherently unbalances games and causes tilts.
Stock, as I said before, can only onehit a light class with rampup that will only occour if the scout dodges embarrassingly poorly, or in literal one in a million scenarios. I've been onehit by a sticky all of once in my TF2 career, and have never done it to anyone else.
That is the downside of the Sandman. Rockets can do the same, that's because you're below the lowest health pool in the base game, and accept that risk by equipping it.

Fair enough, but that's random crits. There's the KGB that can get crits. Are they overpowered? No obviously.
Kritzkrieg can make several things one hit scout. Overpowered? Still no.
Quicky bomb launcher can one hit a scout due to the 144 ramp up damage. Or if you don't like charging, just plant 2 spams. Itll still do more damage in less time then Quickie.
Quickie debuff that wasnt mentioned in the OP was the damage nerf. Which makes it fairly balanced
Sure you can spam it easier but youll be doing some meh damage. You can charge but now you're stunting your firerate.

Again, you can still one hit a sandman scout with alot of weapons. Does that mean those weapons are OP? No.
(the quickie cant even do that when spamming)
So I still don't see how it's an completely overpowered sticky launcher because it can one hit an unsespecting scout, a class that has low health for high damage. Which again, alot of things already can

[m'boy are you fat]

Toyfan1: The Keyboard Warrior님이 먼저 게시:

Feitlebaum님이 먼저 게시:

Because, unlike the Stickybomb Launcher, the Quickie can:
1. Be used at a closer range, due to shorter detonation times,
2. Can one-shot at medium range, given time to charge your shot.

It can be barely used at short range. Mainly because A) You spam it, doing less damage
Or B) charge it, but then you're just giving who ever is shooting you more of a reason to get closer and shoot you more.

a) has nothing to do with using it at close range.
b) should obviously be a mid-to long range option.

Ponpoko the Raccoon Rascal님이 먼저 게시:

RNG isn't reliable, cannot be accounted for and therefore shouldn't be factored into discussions on balance, since it inherently unbalances games and causes tilts.
Stock, as I said before, can only onehit a light class with rampup that will only occour if the scout dodges embarrassingly poorly, or in literal one in a million scenarios. I've been onehit by a sticky all of once in my TF2 career, and have never done it to anyone else.
That is the downside of the Sandman. Rockets can do the same, that's because you're below the lowest health pool in the base game, and accept that risk by equipping it.

Fair enough, but that's random crits. There's the KGB that can get crits. Are they overpowered? No obviously.
Kritzkrieg can make several things one hit scout. Overpowered? Still no.
Quicky bomb launcher can one hit a scout due to the 144 ramp up damage. Or if you don't like charging, just plant 2 spams. Itll still do more damage in less time then Quickie.
Quickie debuff that wasnt mentioned in the OP was the damage nerf. Which makes it fairly balanced
Sure you can spam it easier but youll be doing some meh damage. You can charge but now you're stunting your firerate.

Again, you can still one hit a sandman scout with alot of weapons. Does that mean those weapons are OP? No.
(the quickie cant even do that when spamming)
So I still don't see how it's an completely overpowered sticky launcher because it can one hit an unsespecting scout, a class that has low health for high damage. Which again, alot of things already can

KGB isn't overpowered because it's melee; that should be obvious. Kritzkrieg isn't overpowered because the crits are from an Übercharge. So why are you mentioning crits at all?

You can only one-hit Sandman Scouts with the various Stickybomb Launchers, Rocket Launchers, and the Sniper Rifle and Knife. The Sandman, in and of itself, doesn't have anything to do with how thw Quickie is balanced, anyway.

[Shit Guy]

Toyfan1: The Keyboard Warrior님이 먼저 게시:

Ponpoko the Raccoon Rascal님이 먼저 게시:

RNG isn't reliable, cannot be accounted for and therefore shouldn't be factored into discussions on balance, since it inherently unbalances games and causes tilts.
Stock, as I said before, can only onehit a light class with rampup that will only occour if the scout dodges embarrassingly poorly, or in literal one in a million scenarios. I've been onehit by a sticky all of once in my TF2 career, and have never done it to anyone else.
That is the downside of the Sandman. Rockets can do the same, that's because you're below the lowest health pool in the base game, and accept that risk by equipping it.

Fair enough, but that's random crits. There's the KGB that can get crits. Are they overpowered? No obviously.
Kritzkrieg can make several things one hit scout. Overpowered? Still no.
Quicky bomb launcher can one hit a scout due to the 144 ramp up damage. Or if you don't like charging, just plant 2 spams. Itll still do more damage in less time then Quickie.
Quickie debuff that wasnt mentioned in the OP was the damage nerf. Which makes it fairly balanced
Sure you can spam it easier but youll be doing some meh damage. You can charge but now you're stunting your firerate.

Again, you can still one hit a sandman scout with alot of weapons. Does that mean those weapons are OP? No.
(the quickie cant even do that when spamming)
So I still don't see how it's an completely overpowered sticky launcher because it can one hit an unsespecting scout, a class that has low health for high damage. Which again, alot of things already can

Boosted crits require certain, normally convoluted means to be achieved. Holding left click for a second and a half is not the same as getting a melee kill on a 75% movement speed class, and CERTAINLY not comparable to giving up Uber and spending 32+ seconds worth of work.
Next paragraph is in need of rephrasing, I can't work out what the ♥♥♥♥ it's trying to say.
I don't agree that a damage penalty makes it balanced, particularly taking into consideration the fact that in almost all scenarios it still takes the exact same amount of stickies, and has the potential to cripple things with the damage bonus, being much more efficient at fighting things in close quarters (Particularly scouts) due to the fast arm time, and being able to charge much more damaging shots for mid/long range far quicker. It's not strictly speaking better or worse at any range.

The Sandman argument at this point is you either being extremely stupid, trying to strawman or simply not having read. And claiming that it being able to oneshot is the only argument towards it being OP is also a strawman. This is one of quite a few.

[Toyfan1]

Did you guys read my post?
Feitle brought up close range, so I expand on it- then he says it doesnt matter.
Ponpoko says i'm being extremely stupid or trying to straw man, then does his own strawman.


I wasn't saying any of the weapons I listed were OP. I directly said no they are. I was just saying- hey. These can all one hit a scout.

Feitlebaum님이 먼저 게시:

Toyfan1: The Keyboard Warrior님이 먼저 게시:

It can be barely used at short range. Mainly because A) You spam it, doing less damage
Or B) charge it, but then you're just giving who ever is shooting you more of a reason to get closer and shoot you more.

a) has nothing to do with using it at close range.
b) should obviously be a mid-to long range option.

Fair enough, but that's random crits. There's the KGB that can get crits. Are they overpowered? No obviously.
Kritzkrieg can make several things one hit scout. Overpowered? Still no.
Quicky bomb launcher can one hit a scout due to the 144 ramp up damage. Or if you don't like charging, just plant 2 spams. Itll still do more damage in less time then Quickie.
Quickie debuff that wasnt mentioned in the OP was the damage nerf. Which makes it fairly balanced
Sure you can spam it easier but youll be doing some meh damage. You can charge but now you're stunting your firerate.

Again, you can still one hit a sandman scout with alot of weapons. Does that mean those weapons are OP? No.
(the quickie cant even do that when spamming)
So I still don't see how it's an completely overpowered sticky launcher because it can one hit an unsespecting scout, a class that has low health for high damage. Which again, alot of things already can

KGB isn't overpowered because it's melee; that should be obvious. Kritzkrieg isn't overpowered because the crits are from an Übercharge. So why are you mentioning crits at all?

You can only one-hit Sandman Scouts with the various Stickybomb Launchers, Rocket Launchers, and the Sniper Rifle and Knife. The Sandman, in and of itself, doesn't have anything to do with how thw Quickie is balanced, anyway.

It has nothing to do with close range? Whyd you bring it up then?
How are you fighting a scout at long range? Mid range? He's not attacking you with a Shotty then, which means it doesnt matter what sticky you use.
2 regular stickies will kill him
2 quickie stickies will kill him

You can one hit them with more than that. As I said before. Crits can one hit a scout.

Ponpoko the Raccoon Rascal님이 먼저 게시:

Toyfan1: The Keyboard Warrior님이 먼저 게시:

Fair enough, but that's random crits. There's the KGB that can get crits. Are they overpowered? No obviously.
Kritzkrieg can make several things one hit scout. Overpowered? Still no.
Quicky bomb launcher can one hit a scout due to the 144 ramp up damage. Or if you don't like charging, just plant 2 spams. Itll still do more damage in less time then Quickie.
Quickie debuff that wasnt mentioned in the OP was the damage nerf. Which makes it fairly balanced
Sure you can spam it easier but youll be doing some meh damage. You can charge but now you're stunting your firerate.

Again, you can still one hit a sandman scout with alot of weapons. Does that mean those weapons are OP? No.
(the quickie cant even do that when spamming)
So I still don't see how it's an completely overpowered sticky launcher because it can one hit an unsespecting scout, a class that has low health for high damage. Which again, alot of things already can

Boosted crits require certain, normally convoluted means to be achieved. Holding left click for a second and a half is not the same as getting a melee kill on a 75% movement speed class, and CERTAINLY not comparable to giving up Uber and spending 32+ seconds worth of work.
Next paragraph is in need of rephrasing, I can't work out what the ♥♥♥♥ it's trying to say.
I don't agree that a damage penalty makes it balanced, particularly taking into consideration the fact that in almost all scenarios it still takes the exact same amount of stickies, and has the potential to cripple things with the damage bonus, being much more efficient at fighting things in close quarters (Particularly scouts) due to the fast arm time, and being able to charge much more damaging shots for mid/long range far quicker. It's not strictly speaking better or worse at any range.

The Sandman argument at this point is you either being extremely stupid, trying to strawman or simply not having read. And claiming that it being able to oneshot is the only argument towards it being OP is also a strawman. This is one of quite a few.

See my earlier point.
Damage makes it a sidegrade to the sticky.
You can spam it due to arm time. But it wont do good damage. You can charge them but that will lower your firerate significantly
I'm repeating myself.
And it does help setting up traps "far quicker". That's the point of the gun. Hence the "Quickie"

See earlier point. Saying i'm trying to use straw man is redundant/unneeded.

Final Thoughts:
It's pretty much a lower-side grade.
Does less damage when spammed, but you can arm them faster.
You can do more damage than that if you charge it, but you arent firing as fast (i.e. Not spamming)
You can barely spam with it due to the 4 stickies in one clip.
And even if you did set up a trap, the only benefit is the time to take to set up the trap, but it be better just to spam the regular sticky launcher

Specificly, a regular sticky does 120 damage.
A charged Quickie does 122 damage.
Now would you just want to spam a payload or point with 5+ (120 damage eavh) stickies , each in quick session? Or would you want to wait 3.6 seconds for 3 (122 damage each) stickies?
It's obvious.

TL:DR
Regular sticky spam is pretty much better than Quickie spam. Only upside is being the arm time, which doesnt really matter on traps

[m'boy are you fat]

Toyfan1: The Keyboard Warrior님이 먼저 게시:

Did you guys read my post?
Feitle brought up close range, so I expand on it- then he says it doesn't matter.

You're misinterpreting what should have been fairly obvious. I said that your point didn't matter when it comes to close-range, as detonation time is what makes it able to fight in close range, and your point had nothing to do with detonation time.

I wasn't saying any of the weapons I listed were OP. I directly said no they are. I was just saying- hey. These can all one hit a scout.

But the weapons that can one-hit Scouts besides the Rifle and the Knife can only do so with rampup. The Quickiebomb Launcher not only performs better at close range, allowing you to get rampup that way, it also ramps up damage based on charged time, giving it two separate ways it can do more damage than it should.

Feitlebaum님이 먼저 게시:

a) has nothing to do with using it at close range.
b) should obviously be a mid-to long range option.

KGB isn't overpowered because it's melee; that should be obvious. Kritzkrieg isn't overpowered because the crits are from an Übercharge. So why are you mentioning crits at all?

You can only one-hit Sandman Scouts with the various Stickybomb Launchers, Rocket Launchers, and the Sniper Rifle and Knife. The Sandman, in and of itself, doesn't have anything to do with how thw Quickie is balanced, anyway.

It has nothing to do with close range? Whyd you bring it up then?
How are you fighting a scout at long range? Mid range? He's not attacking you with a Shotty then, which means it doesnt matter what sticky you use.
2 regular stickies will kill him
2 quickie stickies will kill him

You can one hit them with more than that. As I said before. Crits can one hit a scout.

You were the one who brought up the irrelevant point of spam, not me.

The Scout's going to be at mid- to close-range, where Scout normally does better at killing Demomen, except the Quickie allows you to fight better at close range.

Stop bringing up crits. They one-shot heavier classes too, so the point is irrelevant.

[Emurinus]

The best way to balance (nerf) the Quickiebomb launcher is re-adding the fizzle mechanic and lowering the extra charge damage to 20%.

Toyfan1: The Keyboard Warrior님이 먼저 게시:

Specificly, a regular sticky does 120 damage.
A charged Quickie does 122 damage.
Now would you just want to spam a payload or point with 5+ (120 damage eavh) stickies , each in quick session? Or would you want to wait 3.6 seconds for 3 (122 damage each) stickies?
It's obvious.

Fully charged Quickie will do 138 flat, 165 at max ramp-up, and 69 at max falloff.

[Toyfan1]

GodOfTheNether님이 먼저 게시:

The best way to balance (nerf) the Quickiebomb launcher is re-adding the fizzle mechanic. It's supposed to be an offensive weapon so the fizzle mechanic made it a decent side grade.

Toyfan1: The Keyboard Warrior님이 먼저 게시:

Specificly, a regular sticky does 120 damage.
A charged Quickie does 122 damage.
Now would you just want to spam a payload or point with 5+ (120 damage eavh) stickies , each in quick session? Or would you want to wait 3.6 seconds for 3 (122 damage each) stickies?
It's obvious.

Fully charged Quickie will do 138 flat, 165 at max ramp-up, and 69 at max falloff.

Source?
How can it do more damage than stock if it has -15%

Even at that, you're ramp up numbers are wrong too;
35% of 138 is 48.3
48.3 + 138 would be 186.3, not 165
Unless it means base stock damage which would be
42 +138 = 180

You're post doesnt make any sense.

Use the TF wiki: https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Quickiebomb_Launcher

Feitlebaum님이 먼저 게시:

Toyfan1: The Keyboard Warrior님이 먼저 게시:

Did you guys read my post?
Feitle brought up close range, so I expand on it- then he says it doesn't matter.

You're misinterpreting what should have been fairly obvious. I said that your point didn't matter when it comes to close-range, as detonation time is what makes it able to fight in close range, and your point had nothing to do with detonation time.

I wasn't saying any of the weapons I listed were OP. I directly said no they are. I was just saying- hey. These can all one hit a scout.

But the weapons that can one-hit Scouts besides the Rifle and the Knife can only do so with rampup. The Quickiebomb Launcher not only performs better at close range, allowing you to get rampup that way, it also ramps up damage based on charged time, giving it two separate ways it can do more damage than it should.

It has nothing to do with close range? Whyd you bring it up then?
How are you fighting a scout at long range? Mid range? He's not attacking you with a Shotty then, which means it doesnt matter what sticky you use.
2 regular stickies will kill him
2 quickie stickies will kill him

You can one hit them with more than that. As I said before. Crits can one hit a scout.

You were the one who brought up the irrelevant point of spam, not me.

The Scout's going to be at mid- to close-range, where Scout normally does better at killing Demomen, except the Quickie allows you to fight better at close range.

Stop bringing up crits. They one-shot heavier classes too, so the point is irrelevant.

Arm time is relavant with sticky spam. Which is why you cant spam well with the SR.
Please refer to my other points

[Toyfan1]

GodOfTheNether님이 먼저 게시:

The best way to balance (nerf) the Quickiebomb launcher is re-adding the fizzle mechanic. It's supposed to be an offensive weapon so the fizzle mechanic made it a decent sidegrade

too add, its already a side grade, actually less than a sidegrade.

[Emurinus]

Toyfan1: The Keyboard Warrior님이 먼저 게시:

GodOfTheNether님이 먼저 게시:

The best way to balance (nerf) the Quickiebomb launcher is re-adding the fizzle mechanic. It's supposed to be an offensive weapon so the fizzle mechanic made it a decent side grade.




Fully charged Quickie will do 138 flat, 165 at max ramp-up, and 69 at max falloff.

Source?
How can it do more damage than stock if it has -15%

35% of 138 is 48.3
48.3 + 138 would be 186.3, not 165
Unless it means base stock damage which would be
42 +138 = 180


You're post doesnt make any sense.

Made some miscalculations. My bad. Quickie will do 143 at max ramp-up, not 165.

[Charlie5L]

I loved using the Quickiebomb Launcher. The sizzling effect made me actually want to use stickies more often than grenades.

I don't complain a lot about Meet Your Match, but after that update changed this weapon, I just started deleting it or scrapping it for metal any time I got it.

I feel like the Quickiebomb Launcher's sizzling mechanic made it unique amongst the other stickybomb launchers, as it kind of force the user to stop making sticky traps and spawncamping, but rather use it how most people use the default launcher: Stickyspamming. Now it's just the ultimate near-straight-of-an-upgrade stickyspamming launcher.