[Challenge] Come up with ONE good argument for random crits

[i killed god]

I challenge anyone to come up with a single good argument in favor of random crits. Before we get started, let me open this up by negating the common 'arguments' in their favor.

• They help new players get kills and lets them learn the game

They absolutely do the opposite. A new player being significantly less experienced in the game is much more likely to miss their rocket/shot/grenade/sticky/whatever whereas an experienced player will more often than not land theirs. Considering this, as well as the fact that random crit chance ramps up with damage done (which, again, experienced players will reap the benefits of) means that random crits benefit experienced players to a significantly higher degree than newer players; and I'd even argue that they harm newer players more than help them.

• They've been in the game since the beginning

Yes, and? TF2 is not the same game it was 10 years ago. Random crits simply don't belong anymore. Just because something has been there since the beginning doesn't mean it's absolute. Failure to evolve and adapt has doomed many things in our world; let's not let TF2 become of them.

• They're fun

For one, "fun" isn't a quantifiable objective factor; what I find fun, someone else might find tedious. Two, the standard for whether something is belongs is not its fun factor; I personally find being ubered and shredding through the enemy team to be fun. Does that mean that soldier should get a 2ndary that allows him to pop uber on himself at will? ♥♥♥♥ no. Claiming something is "fun" as an argument in its defense is a good indicator that you have no proper argument with which to defend your claim.

• TF2 is a casual goofy game, random crits just make it more random and goofy

Casual and goofy are not mutually exclusive to being fair and balanced (haha get it? fair and balanced?). TF2's core gameplay takes heavy inspiration from Quake where it will reward high skill play significantly and allows an experienced player to absolutely destroy an unexperienced player; and that should be the desired outcome. A game with a high skill cap is one that keeps players coming back, because the thrill of having spent thousands of hours mastering the game is rewarding when you step into a pub and absolutely destroy everyone else. Adding a factor of randomness which may or may not make the difference in a fight, or even game, is a terrible idea by every standard of game design.

• Without random crits, games would become dull and monotone

This one is the one I really hate. To understand just how stupid this "argument" is, look at games like CS:GO or R6 Siege. Both of which are significantly more straightforward than TF2 (with CS:GO not even having any sort of measure of classes whatsoever), and both have very active competitive communities and a huge following for the competitive scene. Again, we're talking about very straightfoward FPSes with straightforward objectives and decent map design. So how do these games retain interest at higher levels of play? Because the skill ceiling is extremely high; whether it be map knowledge, teamwork, strategies, gamesense, improvisation etc. The most typical and straightforward of rounds can be turned upside down by the smallest of plays, or by a player missing their flick by a fraction of an inch. When you consider that TF2 also throws in more convoluted objectives like 5CP which bring their own set of strategies and complications, 9 classes, and a more intricate type of gamesense in the form of counting ubers and keeping track of ammo/health kit respawns, then there's absolutely no way anyone can defend this argument. In fact, I would argue that removing random crits from the game would make it significantly LESS dull and monotone simply because spamming down a choke point from spawn while waiting for Lady Luck to throw a bone your way isn't a valid strategy anymore and you'll have to learn to use your brain and play with your TEAM (as in TEAM fortress 2) to win.

With that being said, let us begin.

[Rylanor the Unyielding]

引用自 Trashposting told me to do it：

引用自 Call Me Mercenary：

You guys are just being selfish, half the community do like random crits and Valve doesn't need to change a formula that works and is fun because half the community doesn't like it. Quite complaining and play on a server without crits and leave the rest of the community alone from your unwanted complaining.

I don't see where you're getting this "half the community" stat.

Also I'd love to play on a server without RC but they're basically all dead.

Well if crits were so hated, why are people still playing on RC servers instead of flocking to no crit servers? Ever think about that?

The reason why I don't take these types of arguments seriously is that its such an entitled first world problem to be complaining about a niche game mechanic.
It's also somewhat of a spoiled attitude to demand all random crits be removed from the game because a select few don't like them and damn to those who do enjoy the chaos and fun they bring. The same people who want to get rid of RC also demand they don't split the community between RC servers and servers without crits and not wanting to compromise is the most entitled bs I've heard. I'll settle for a compromise but I'd be "jarate" if they removed all RCs from casual games because people cried loud enough.

[ImHelping]

They make manchildren cry.

[fnu#]

引用自 Call Me Mercenary：

To be entirely fair no one wanted the matchmaking system for casual and people still don't want it.

i agree, but that's not the point.
the point is that, as-is, randomcrits objectively are a detriment to the game, and that the status-quo is less than fair towards the considerable portion of the playerbase who doesn't happen to like how "wacky lol xd" that detriment is.

#BringBackQuickMatch

fuck quickmatch, just make the server-browser to be a viable way of joining matches again.

[Down The Drain]

引用自 Mikayla：

Didn't you already made an anti-rc thread like a day ago?

For me is quite simple.
Casual is not a comp match, never understood why people get so salty, while playing it.
I know but "skill" if you truly cared so much about skill then, what are you doing in casual? Don't tell me you're sandbagging and enjoy destroying gibus for fun...

It's a bit of a hassle to form / join a team for comp leagues and I can't really commit atm. The comp mm doesn't allow for dx8 so I can't use that.

Even then I still don't see why it's somehow wrong for someone to want to try in casual and not have to deal with RC.

[Rylanor the Unyielding]

引用自 mc fnugget#：

引用自 Call Me Mercenary：

To be entirely fair no one wanted the matchmaking system for casual and people still don't want it.

i agree, but that's not the point.
the point is that, as-is, randomcrits objectively are a detriment to the game, and that the status-quo is less than fair towards the considerable portion of the playerbase who doesn't happen to like how "wacky lol xd" that detriment is.

#BringBackQuickMatch

fuck quickmatch, just make the server-browser to be a viable way of joining matches again.

That's your opinion, not mine dude. They make matches more enjoyable for me.

[fnu#]

引用自 Call Me Mercenary：

Well if crits were so hated, why are people still playing on RC servers

because botched tf2 is still better than no tf2.

instead of flocking to no crit servers? Ever think about that?

because there are none.

The reason why I don't take these types of arguments seriously is that its such an entitled first world problem to be complaining about a niche game mechanic.
It's also somewhat of a spoiled attitude to demand all random crits be removed from the game because a select few don't like them and damn to those who do enjoy the chaos and fun they bring. The same people who want to get rid of RC also demand they don't split the community between RC servers and servers without crits and to make not wanting to compromise is the most entitled bs I've heard. I'll settle for a compromise but I'd be "jarate" if they removed all RCs from casual games because people cried loud enough.

excerpt from fnu's guide to save tf2:

• critical thinking

during setup, servers automatically call a vote to check if players wish to disable randomcrits for this round. they're still on by default.
while randomcrits are disabled, melee weapons without the "no random critical hits"-tag deal 20% increased damage to players.
added the "no random critical hits" downside to each weapon with an "on hit" or "on kill" benefit, as well as any weapon that can grant guaranteed minicrits or crits.
fixed the spy's backstab-indicator animation not working when randomcrits are off.

[i killed god]

引用自 Call Me Mercenary：

You guys are just being selfish, half the community do like random crits and Valve doesn't need to change a formula that works and is fun because half the community doesn't like it. Quite complaining and play on a server without crits and leave the rest of the community alone from your unwanted complaining.

And I suppose you speak for half the community? I can't speak for the community of TF2 itself, all I can do is observe the forums, and from what it seems, the majority of the people on the forums are strongly against random crits. Considering the fact that the players on the forums are the ones that care enough about the game to read and participate in discussions involving it, I'd say that's a pretty good measure of general opinion about the game. It's also not selfish to try and bring awareness to something that is inherently broken to Valve so that it may be fixed. I'm sorry you don't want your precious random crits to go away, but no one likes them, and you need to learn to play without them.

引用自 Mikayla：

Didn't you already made an anti-rc thread like a day ago?

For me is quite simple.
Casual is not a comp match, never understood why people get so salty, while playing it.
I know but "skill" if you truly cared so much about skill then, what are you doing in casual? Don't tell me you're sandbagging and enjoy destroying gibus for fun...

Why shouldn't casual be subject to the same rules as competitive? Why should casual be allowed to have broken game mechanics that you're unable to form a single good argument in favor of?

引用自 Call Me Mercenary：

Well if crits were so hated, why are people still playing on RC servers instead of flocking to no crit servers? Ever think about that?

Because people have to go digging for a non RC server in the community servers, and possibly stumble upon a server with features they don't necessarily enjoy, or a clique-ish community they don't belong to, or just a really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ ping or generally unreliable server. Valve's servers are the standard and the most played for a reason; they're the OFFICIAL servers. People that don't enjoy RC don't have the option to play official servers without them.

引用自 Call Me Mercenary：

The reason why I don't take these types of arguments seriously is that its such an entitled first world problem to be complaining about a niche game mechanic.

I don't think you understand what the word "niche" means if you think a feature that's omnipresent in the most popular game mode is "niche".

引用自 Call Me Mercenary：

It's also somewhat of a spoiled attitude to demand all random crits be removed from the game because a select few don't like them and damn to those who do enjoy the chaos and fun they bring. The same people who want to get rid of RC also demand they don't split the community between RC servers and servers without crits and to make not wanting to compromise is the most entitled bs I've heard. I'll settle for a compromise but I'd be "jarate" if they removed all RCs from casual games because people cried loud enough.

As I said, more people don't like them than people who do. They bring a lot of chaos, for sure, but not much fun. I've already addressed all of this twice already.

[fnu#]

引用自 Call Me Mercenary：

That's your opinion, not mine dude. They make matches more enjoyable for me.

"i like it, deal with it" is where any discussion ends.

[Rylanor the Unyielding]

引用自 mc fnugget#：

引用自 Call Me Mercenary：

Well if crits were so hated, why are people still playing on RC servers

because botched tf2 is still better than no tf2.

instead of flocking to no crit servers? Ever think about that?

because there are none.

The reason why I don't take these types of arguments seriously is that its such an entitled first world problem to be complaining about a niche game mechanic.
It's also somewhat of a spoiled attitude to demand all random crits be removed from the game because a select few don't like them and damn to those who do enjoy the chaos and fun they bring. The same people who want to get rid of RC also demand they don't split the community between RC servers and servers without crits and to make not wanting to compromise is the most entitled bs I've heard. I'll settle for a compromise but I'd be "jarate" if they removed all RCs from casual games because people cried loud enough.

excerpt from fnu's guide to save tf2:

• critical thinking

during setup, servers automatically call a vote to check if players wish to disable randomcrits for this round. they're still on by default.
while randomcrits are disabled, melee weapons without the "no random critical hits"-tag deal 20% increased damage to players.
added the "no random critical hits" downside to each weapon with an "on hit" or "on kill" benefit, as well as any weapon that can grant guaranteed minicrits or crits.
fixed the spy's backstab-indicator animation not working when randomcrits are off.

The vote system is a terrible idea, people would leave the server if they didn't get their preference, I know I would.

Also the "passive" damage for "weapons that would have crits" is also stupid.

[i killed god]

引用自 lenny：

oh i want to rant about how not only you just watched uncle dane's video and put his points, showing you aren't even remotely free-thinking, and about how tf2 is not a game designed to be a competetive game, or even balanced, but im tired right now

>competetive
>instantly dismissing someone's arguments because someone else said them before
Sometimes, I wonder how people like you find their way around their own homes. Do you use GPS to go take a ♥♥♥♥? How did you even figure out how to operate a computer?

[Mun-Dee]

Uncle Dane made a video about random crits and now everybody is talking about them

[Rylanor the Unyielding]

引用自 mc fnugget#：

引用自 Call Me Mercenary：

That's your opinion, not mine dude. They make matches more enjoyable for me.

"i like it, deal with it" is where any discussion ends.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fp9zUWcV3EE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tj-HerBqVb4

Of course, I like it, it's casual. One big sandbox where ♥♥♥♥ happens.

[Cee]

"In my opinion, I like them. Keep them, you big bold bastards!"

引用自 Call Me Mercenary：

引用自 mc fnugget#：

i agree, but that's not the point.
the point is that, as-is, randomcrits objectively are a detriment to the game, and that the status-quo is less than fair towards the considerable portion of the playerbase who doesn't happen to like how "wacky lol xd" that detriment is.
fuck quickmatch, just make the server-browser to be a viable way of joining matches again.

That's your opinion, not mine dude. They make matches more enjoyable for me.

"It's my opinion, you can't criticize it" -argument makes every discussion invalid because people could always just say "Oh its MY opinion, you cannot criticise it!!!"

[Down The Drain]

引用自 A TF2 Player：

Uncle Dane made a video about random crits and now everybody is talking about them

Iunno I've been against random crits for years and so have many other people, it's just that Dane brought up the topic again.

[Monteizo]

引用自 mc fnugget#：

引用自 Call Me Mercenary：

To be entirely fair no one wanted the matchmaking system for casual and people still don't want it.

i agree, but that's not the point.
the point is that, as-is, randomcrits objectively are a detriment to the game, and that the status-quo is less than fair towards the considerable portion of the playerbase who doesn't happen to like how "wacky lol xd" that detriment is.

#BringBackQuickMatch

fuck quickmatch, just make the server-browser to be a viable way of joining matches again.

You mean subjectively, random crits being a detriment is purely a subjective opinion, not objective fact.

Random crits reward playing well by which I mean measured aggression and getting in there without being a suicidal lemming while they punish complacency, arrogance and cowardice.