Alternative to the disguise kit?

[DailyOctopus]

How come nobody talks about this? One of, if not Spy's biggest issue is that the disguise kit relies too much on luck and inexperienced opponents, and it get's crushed by communication. Why isn't there something else for the fourth weapon slot that Spys could use instead, a weapon designed for competitive settings?

First time on these forums, people have been very helpful.

[Cursed Hawkins]

Probably because nothing WOULD fit that slot? Just like how nothing is likely gonna be added to be in the build PDA slot for the engineer.

[Egox]

How does it rely on luck?

[Mikasa Ackerman]

the disguises kit is meant to provide protection from sentries and a short time protection from other players , if they see a team mate retreating to a health pack they wont instantly call for spy compared to when a spy without one would run to the health pack

[DailyOctopus]

Any gadget would fit the slot. Engie needs his PDA to make the mechanics of the class work. The disguise kit is just a secondary from of sneak for Spy and unlike the PDA it doesn't do its job very well ouside of pubs. Maybe a smoke or flash bomb on a charge meter?

[meikkon]

Spy is meant to be a hard class to play. There are enough plsystyles already - leave the cigarettes alone and vary your disguises more.

Remember, you can change what weapons your disguise is holding to make it more believable.

[DailyOctopus]

Originally posted by munchm_) (long term afk):

Spy is meant to be a hard class to play. There are enough plsystyles already - leave the cigarettes alone and vary your disguises more.

Remember, you can change what weapons your disguise is holding to make it more believable.

I don't play much spy, I'm often the guy that spy checks (heavy, pyro). It just seems to me as though Spy spy's stealth should be more consistent at higher level play.

[Egox]

Originally posted by DailyOctopus:

Originally posted by munchm_) (long term afk):

Spy is meant to be a hard class to play. There are enough plsystyles already - leave the cigarettes alone and vary your disguises more.

Remember, you can change what weapons your disguise is holding to make it more believable.

I don't play much spy, I'm often the guy that spy checks (heavy, pyro). It just seems to me as though Spy spy's stealth should be more consistent at higher level play.

"I don't play much spy..."

Then you're clearly the most qualified community member to be talking about how useless a mechanic is

[meikkon]

Originally posted by DailyOctopus:

I don't play much spy, I'm often the guy that spy checks (heavy, pyro). It just seems to me as though Spy spy's stealth should be more consistent at higher level play.

Heavy is a Spycheck class? I usually backstab them more than anything else. Regardless, all of us Spy mains wish there was a place for us in sixes, but there just isn't. Spy is good for the occasional pick and intelligence, and is still effective in Highlander. Many other classes are just the same - Pyro, Heavy, and Engineer have limited potential in sixes.

If you know how to play Spy well enough, pubs will satisfy you as is.

[Mikasa Ackerman]

Originally posted by DailyOctopus:

Any gadget would fit the slot. Engie needs his PDA to make the mechanics of the class work. The disguise kit is just a secondary from of sneak for Spy and unlike the PDA it doesn't do its job very well ouside of pubs. Maybe a smoke or flash bomb on a charge meter?

a smoke or flash bomb would be pointless , first of all , tf2 isnt made for these things , and second , it wouldnt help spy at all , he would be without a disguise all the time throw a smoke grenade in a place and any class with splash damage will just spy check there

as a demo i would just spam stickies there until you die
as a pyro i would flame
and as a soldier i would just shoot rockets
you would be like akali with her old kit , you could only try to wait with a smoke grenade , everyone would know you are there , you could only wait for a target to ult towards , and unlike akali , spy isnt a strong assassin , hes meant to be played stealth , if all enemies know your position you kinda failed

next , flash bangs , i lost track of how many times a bot in rainbow six siege flashed me and i killed them while flashed , all it would take is a enemy from the other side to come for you , you cant flash everyone on the server , there will always be a random player seeing you and killing you

and even a flashed gibus pyro can hit you with his flames

at most i could see something like a rengar / talon / Zed /kayn (edit or nocturne) ult for spy , become invisible and untargetable and then you strike a target with a strong attack , but that would be op and dumb , spy already can go invis , there would be no point in giving him an easy way to take out medics

[DailyOctopus]

Originally posted by Egox:

Originally posted by DailyOctopus:

I don't play much spy, I'm often the guy that spy checks (heavy, pyro). It just seems to me as though Spy spy's stealth should be more consistent at higher level play.

"I don't play much spy..."

Then you're clearly the most qualified community member to be talking about how useless a mechanic is

It's not useless, it's inconsistent because it relies on opponents making mistakes. It should be harder for me to shutdown spys, especially since I apparently don't know a thing about the class.

[Egox]

Originally posted by DailyOctopus:

Originally posted by Egox:

"I don't play much spy..."

Then you're clearly the most qualified community member to be talking about how useless a mechanic is

It's not useless, it's inconsistent because it relies on opponents making mistakes. It should be harder for me to shutdown spys, especially since I apparently don't know a thing about the class.

https://youtu.be/-Ya9rdQI_MQ

Something tells me he can function pretty well without them

I'm a big fan of the part at 3:50

[meikkon]

Originally posted by DailyOctopus:

Originally posted by Egox:

"I don't play much spy..."

Then you're clearly the most qualified community member to be talking about how useless a mechanic is

It's not useless, it's inconsistent because it relies on opponents making mistakes. It should be harder for me to shutdown spys, especially since I apparently don't know a thing about the class.

Easy way to buff Spy and make people happy - remove random crits from pubs. Makes backstabs more viable, makes melee fairer and more intense, increases the popularity of community servers. Everyone wins here.

All stealth in games relies on other people's mistakes and some level of luck. And if we make him easier to learn, the average amount of Sphees will go from 3 to 5 at least.

[stigma]

The idea that a spy's disguise is useless against good players is a common misconception. It is effective if you know how to use it. Such as when the enemy are distracted, a disguise can be the difference. It is also usually the only way to get close enough to a sentry to sap it.

[Mikasa Ackerman]

Originally posted by DailyOctopus:

Originally posted by Egox:

"I don't play much spy..."

Then you're clearly the most qualified community member to be talking about how useless a mechanic is

It's not useless, it's inconsistent because it relies on opponents making mistakes. It should be harder for me to shutdown spys, especially since I apparently don't know a thing about the class.

so do all classes , if every player played like a TAS bot , all matches would be stalemates
i am by no means a perfect scout player alot of my kills partly are thanks to the enemy not being coordinated well , or not able to kill a single scout spawnkilling them

on most maps a spy with a cloak and dagger can somehow sneak past the enemies , you arent supposed to this as a spy :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAzBFFWXb_Q

[DailyOctopus]

Originally posted by Ryuko Matoi:

Originally posted by DailyOctopus:

Any gadget would fit the slot. Engie needs his PDA to make the mechanics of the class work. The disguise kit is just a secondary from of sneak for Spy and unlike the PDA it doesn't do its job very well ouside of pubs. Maybe a smoke or flash bomb on a charge meter?

a smoke or flash bomb would be pointless , first of all , tf2 isnt made for these things , and second , it wouldnt help spy at all , he would be without a disguise all the time throw a smoke grenade in a place and any class with splash damage will just spy check there

as a demo i would just spam stickies there until you die
as a pyro i would flame
and as a soldier i would just shoot rockets
you would be like akali with her old kit , you could only try to wait with a smoke grenade , everyone would know you are there , you could only wait for a target to ult towards , and unlike akali , spy isnt a strong assassin , hes meant to be played stealth , if all enemies know your position you kinda failed

next , flash bangs , i lost track of how many times a bot in rainbow six siege flashed me and i killed them while flashed , all it would take is a enemy from the other side to come for you , you cant flash everyone on the server , there will always be a random player seeing you and killing you

and even a flashed gibus pyro can hit you with his flames

at most i could see something like a rengar / talon / Zed /kayn (edit or nocturne) ult for spy , become invisible and untargetable and then you strike a target with a strong attack , but that would be op and dumb , spy already can go invis , there would be no point in giving him an easy way to take out medics

Your grievances with flash grenade are the same issues the disguise has.Maybe let him pull out a cardboard cut out of himself as a shield with hp that can help him not die whenever he does something. He wouldn't be able to attack, and it could have a super long holster time during which the spy would be vulnerable