Is the Loch-N-Load a crutch?

[Yuki Nagato]

So I was playing Demoman today and a Scout was giving me crap for using the loch-N-Load saying it was a crutch weapon. He said that people who suck with stock use it because it has better projectile speed. (meaning people who suck at demo use it)
In my defence, the LnL requires you to hit. if you miss it does NOTHING.
Your thoughts?

[Kleiner's final Form]

GL already does nothing unless planned if you miss, (or if that heavy didnt look down at the right time) so you could consider it a crutch seeing how faster projectiles are always easier to aim unless you are so good at regular proj. speed that it confuses you to hell.

[Yuki Nagato]

Originally posted by VoltaicBolt:

It is, for the vast majority of people. And the point you gave is a reason as to why it is a crutch, because you are sacrificing rolling pipes and an extra shot before reloading things for faster projectile speed.

But don't you need to make those shots count? you can miss a shot or 2 with the stock because it will blow up.

[trash]

Originally posted by Captain_Phil:

Your thoughts?

he's 100% right
it's easier pills and costs you a shot
crutch

Originally posted by Captain_Phil:

if you miss it does NOTHING.

so do normal grenades
rollers are for choke spam, not as a backup in case you miss a direct
you miss someone with a pill in direct combat, it's as good as useless

[Yuki Nagato]

Originally posted by hewwo:

Originally posted by Captain_Phil:

Your thoughts?

he's 100% right
it's easier pills and costs you a shot
crutch

Originally posted by Captain_Phil:

if you miss it does NOTHING.

so do normal grenades
rollers are for choke spam, not as a backup in case you miss a direct
you miss someone with a pill in direct combat, it's as good as useless

Originally posted by VoltaicBolt:

Originally posted by Captain_Phil:

But don't you need to make those shots count? you can miss a shot or 2 with the stock because it will blow up.

Witch is the crutch part, if you were good at aiming with stock you would not need the extra projectile speed to hit your shots. That is what makes it a crutch. After all, you don't learn how to aim normal pills by using the loch 'n load, but instead its inferior variety.

ok. interesting. So it may be a crutch. I also think that he is a whiny scout main who has no idea how to counter it. (he had an aussie FON with 4k kills)

[Skeleton]

At the very least if you miss with stock you still have a chance to hit someone and kill them

rollers are a ♥♥♥♥♥

which is why the iron bomber is so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ meta right now, its insane because people dont know how to aim, and when they miss, the pills dont go anywhere and if their target doesnt know that, they're ♥♥♥♥♥♥.

I genuinely find the iron bomber harder to fight than the loch and load, atleast with the loch and load you have to HIT your enemies, right?.

The projectile speed is definitely why people dislike it. Its just that what a lot of people dont understand about it is that it mostly sucks at distances. If you keep your distance from a demo with one its stupid easy to dodge. even for a Heavy, people just cant and get frustrated when they try to rush a demo with a loch and load without a plan and get thrashed at point blank, and then get confused as to why fighting a demo point blank didnt work.

My tip as to fighting the loch: Stay away, don't be a dunce and walk into them, otherwise your more than fine.

[Yuki Nagato]

We are all forgetting one thing i think. +20% dmg vs. buildings. doesnt this mean that you will be more of a help to the team? thats what it seems like (ok i agree that its a crutch now.)

[Pakaku]

Originally posted by hewwo:

Originally posted by Captain_Phil:

Your thoughts?

he's 100% right
it's easier pills and costs you a shot
crutch

Not only that, but if a Loch Demoman actually tries to redeem himself by playing with Stock, he has an even harder time adjusting because of the difference in grenade travel time. It's not just a crutch, it's a hindrance to improving as a Demoman

[Kleiner's final Form]

Originally posted by VoltaicBolt:

Originally posted by Captain_Phil:

We are all forgetting one thing i think. +20% dmg vs. buildings. doesnt this mean that you will be more of a help to the team? thats what it seems like (ok i agree that its a crutch now.)

No, and that is the one situation it is not a crutch. If you equip it temporarily, and temporarily only, for the sole purpose of taking out a nest before immediately switching away, it is not a crutch. Stickies/normal pills also destroy nests well. Not as good, but just a bit worse.

technically stickes and "rollables" are better at it since you dont have to expose yourself.

[𝓇𝒾𝓃𝒶𝒶𝒶𝒶𝒶]

It's a crutch.
"but you have to hit!" Then why aren't you using stock or IB?

[Skeleton]

Originally posted by VoltaicBolt:

The fact that it explodes on impact

The loch and load does not explode on impact.

[Kleiner's final Form]

Originally posted by dr pepper:

Originally posted by VoltaicBolt:

The fact that it explodes on impact

The loch and load does not explode on impact.

He means hitbox, not wall impact.

[Pakaku]

Originally posted by VoltaicBolt:

Originally posted by Pakaku:

Not only that, but if a Loch Demoman actually tries to redeem himself by playing with Stock, he has an even harder time adjusting because of the difference in grenade travel time. It's not just a crutch, it's a hindrance to improving as a Demoman

Thats why it is a crutch. A crutch makes the game easier but harms the player in the medium-to-long run.

The crutch part comes from the projectile speed (easier for newbies to aim) and the clip size penalty (punishes experienced players by reducing their DPS)

The part I added about adapting from Loch to Stock? That's just bonus reason to avoid the Loch

[Skeleton]

Originally posted by VoltaicBolt:

Originally posted by dr pepper:

At the very least if you miss with stock you still have a chance to hit someone and kill them

rollers are a ♥♥♥♥♥

which is why the iron bomber is so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ meta right now, its insane because people dont know how to aim, and when they miss, the pills dont go anywhere and if their target doesnt know that, they're ♥♥♥♥♥♥.

I genuinely find the iron bomber harder to fight than the loch and load, atleast with the loch and load you have to HIT your enemies, right?.

The projectile speed is definitely why people dislike it. Its just that what a lot of people dont understand about it is that it mostly sucks at distances. If you keep your distance from a demo with one its stupid easy to dodge. even for a Heavy, people just cant and get frustrated when they try to rush a demo with a loch and load without a plan and get thrashed at point blank, and then get confused as to why fighting a demo point blank didnt work.

My tip as to fighting the loch: Stay away, don't be a dunce and walk into them, otherwise your more than fine.

The fact that it explodes on impact AND the projectile speed is disliked because the explode on contact is usually the argument why it requires """skill""" despite it being part of the sacrifice, with the reduced clip, for the easy-to-hit pills. And a heavy should be able to slaughter a demo at point blank within 1 second. If not, he is just bad at the class(like me).

I'm a heavy main myself, if usually against any demoman, its hard to fight them point blank, because us heavies die in three hits, in that situation i think its usually a "who notices who" first or "who draws first"

[Yuki Nagato]

Originally posted by Sylaex:

It's a crutch.
"but you have to hit!" Then why aren't you using stock or IB?

I don't often play demo. I got a makaw masked war paint and out it on loch cuz it looked cool. Within a few hours I have someone crying in chat. No I don't think I can consistantly hit with stock. That being said I don't play alot of demoman simply because the team more often than not already has one. Also your reply wasn't helpful. If I didn;t already have previous replies to my thread before you responded with this I would have just ignored it.

[Yuki Nagato]

Originally posted by VoltaicBolt:

Originally posted by Captain_Phil:

I don't often play demo. I got a makaw masked war paint and out it on loch cuz it looked cool. Within a few hours I have someone crying in chat. No I don't think I can consistantly hit with stock. That being said I don't play alot of demoman simply because the team more often than not already has one. Also your reply wasn't helpful. If I didn;t already have previous replies to my thread before you responded with this I would have just ignored it.

I still recommend spending a small amount of time practicing regardless of how much you play demo.

May as well. While we are here what do you think of the loose cannon? thats a Demo weapon i love using,