The Tomislav Is The Most of a Direct Upgrade In The Entire Game

[Rando the Crit Clown]

Due to the spin-up bonus, it deals more damage at any distance unless you were already spun up for either 800ms or 1,800ms I don't remember exactly which. Due to the accuracy bonus, it deals more damage against anyone who isn't within Disciplinary Action range. But if they're within Disciplinary Action range you'll only kill them a few milliseconds faster since they'll be taking hundreds of DPS with either gun, and that's assuming you're already spun up before they appear and they just decide to try to melee a spun up Heavy for some reason.

So right now the gun's stat page practically looks like this

+Spin up speed
+Damage
Silent Spinup: Corner camp enemies to instantly kill them.
Bunny Hop: Tap space and right click to hop around with your gun revved up, moving at full speed and having the gun ready to fire at any time

If you were to remove the accuracy bonus it'd keep the faster spinup allowing more damage briefly, it'd keep the silent spinup to let you defend exceedingly well, and it'd keep bunnyhopping letting you be ready to fire at any moment. It'd just finally do less damage after you're already started.

Then the Tomislav would become better against single enemies and better while defending a doorway/corner/etc, but worse against groups of enemies. You'd be able to hop around with the gun constantly ready so you can fire almost immediately, at the cost of less damage instead of the "cost" of more damage. You'd be able to hide next to passageways so you can instantly delete anyone coming through. The gun would just finally have a downside so there's finally a reason to equip stock, because right now the only situation in which stock is barely better, the Brass Beast is miles better.

[Rando the Crit Clown]

Messaggio originale di 『OkashiYujin』:

I dont think Tomislav is the most direct upgrade when crossbow and ubersaw exist my friend.

They at least have downsides. The Crusader's Crossbow gives you insane healing at any range, lets you deal significant damage to distant enemies, lets you swap off of it to quickly poke people, and a lot more at the cost of the Syringe Gun, which has way more DPS at close range. The Syringe Gun isn't nearly as helpful since it requires a lot of dedication and can't do nearly as much as CC, but it is better at defending yourself.

The Ubersaw swings slower which is noticeable but not really worth unequipping.

The Tomislav is just better in every way. No downside. Literally 0 reason to ever unequip it in any situation except for aesthetic things like "I like how it sounds". With CC and Ubersaw you could at least unequip them to deal more damage, which isn't that good a reason but it's a reason. With Tomislav there IS no reason.

[Rando the Crit Clown]

Messaggio originale di Sham!:

Messaggio originale di 『OkashiYujin』:

I dont think Tomislav is the most direct upgrade when crossbow and ubersaw exist my friend.

tbh I’d claim both cripple medic’s ability to defend himself, ofc the upsides are still well worth it

Can’t say the same about the tomi which changes basically nothing and it’s just all around better

Exactly, thank you. CC and Ubersaw are both the best things to equip and bring huge upsides, but at least they have downsides.

[Uscari]

I agree. The accuracy bonus and faster rev speed makes the tomislav more applicable in direct combat and largely compensates for the firing speed penalty.

The accuracy bonus and silent spin up should be removed, just give it 20% faster rev and keep the 20% firing penalty.

The ability to b-hop while revving as heavy is powerful enough, giving him more accuracy and silent spin up is too much.

[Scally]

Rando speaks truth. I've mained Heavy for years and once at a certain level of play, accuracy, timing, anticipation and overall game sense, it becomes obvious that Tomislav is far, far superior to Sasha.

The slower firing speed isn't noticeable because of the accuracy bonus, in fact I can kill moving enemies that would have escaped against Sasha and even Natascha. On top of that we get a quicker spin-up and silent spin, more or less for free with no downsides.

But I wouldn't say Tomislav is the only example of an upgrade. I'd include degreaser and diamondback in that list as their downsides are almost meaningless. Also the crossbow is an upgrade, but has a slightly different function.

[Rando the Crit Clown]

Messaggio originale di Uscari:

I agree. The accuracy bonus and faster rev speed makes the tomislav more applicable in direct combat and largely compensates for the firing speed penalty.

The accuracy bonus and silent spin up should be removed, just give it 20% faster rev and keep the 20% firing penalty.

The ability to b-hop while revving as heavy is powerful enough, giving him more accuracy and silent spin up is too much.

Yeah, silent spinup is really strong. I have no idea how people here say it's useless, it lets you sit near a pathway and just instantly delete anyone who comes through since there's no way to know a Heavy is there about to deal 450 DPS to them. If you try doing that with anything other than the Tomislav people'll hear you and will probably peek in while facing you, since noise works like that, and pop at you. Or shoot projectiles from around the corner. Or take an alternate route. There's a lot you can do to counter a camping Heavy because they're so loud, but the Tomislav removes all of that. The only way to know he's there is if you saw someone else die to him in front of you.

Messaggio originale di Apollo8:

But I wouldn't say Tomislav is the only example of an upgrade. I'd include degreaser and diamondback in that list as their downsides are almost meaningless. Also the crossbow is an upgrade, but has a slightly different function.

There's a lot of upgrades, I'm saying the Tomislav is the most of an upgrade. It doesn't really have a downside at all, while the Degreaser at least has weaker afterburn and fewer airblasts. Neither downside matters much, but the firing speed penalty is offset by the accuracy bonus so it may as well not exist.

[Loving Wound]

Messaggio originale di Uscari:

The accuracy bonus and silent spin up should be removed, just give it 20% faster rev and keep the 20% firing penalty.

I don't disagree.

I like silent spin up though, and I hope silent spin up is a stat that it is used again on a more balanced mini-gun.

[Scally]

Another advantage of Tomislav, which I don't think has been mentioned in the thread, is that it uses less ammo compared to the stock minigun. So it effectively has more ammo by being more efficient.

My balance solutions would be 1) remove the faster spin-up. This is the most unbalancing stat as those brief milliseconds remove so much risk and enable bunnyhopping and 2) reduce its ammo to 100. This last one will sound drastic but the slower firing speed and accuracy do help with ammo use somewhat. Similarly I'd give Natascha back the 300 ammo on the basis of the damage penalty; damage stats on miniguns have more than one implication, not just damage output but ammo use in achieving the same result.

Some of the suggestions above I have to say would make Tomislav boring, I wouldn't want that so either the silent spin or the quicker spin should stay and I'm suggesting the silent spin is more in keeping with the design and is less unbalancing.

[Hell-met]

tomi is mediocre vs overhealed fatty classes

[Nuparu]

Off-topic.
I use Huo-Long Heater for Memes.

[Rando the Crit Clown]

Messaggio originale di Apollo8:

My balance solutions would be 1) remove the faster spin-up. This is the most unbalancing stat as those brief milliseconds remove so much risk and enable bunnyhopping and 2) reduce its ammo to 100.

The accuracy stat is what negates its downside. If you changed it to a normal spinup but increased accuracy it'd still be the best in just about every situation. Now you can't bunnyhop with it, but you're still dealing more damage. The 100 ammo thing doesn't really matter too much because 1 point of ammo deals like 30 damage. Your 100 ammo would be enough to give you thousands back because people drop ammo on death and only require a few bullets to kill, with it only really being an inconvenience when you're doing weird things like shooting at really far people.

If the accuracy bonus were to be kept the fire rate would need to be lowered even more so that it actually becomes a downside. Maybe 30 to 40 percent slower instead of 20. All of that would also be a lot bigger of a change than just removing the accuracy penalty, which people might get upset with.

I don't really care too much what happens to it, but it needs to become a sidegrade instead of an upgrade. Removing the accuracy bonus is the easiest way to do it, but you could also do something more complicated like what you said.

Messaggio originale di Nuparu:

Off-topic.
I use Huo-Long Heater for Memes.

I wish the Huo-Long Heatmaker was good. It's a fun weapon. But fixing that would be a lot harder, while fixing the Tomislav could be as simple as just removing one or two of its stats.

[Cheggf]

Messaggio originale di Hell-met:

tomi is mediocre vs overhealed fatty classes

lol

[Defenestration]

*laughs in 3rd degree*

[twunny phaiv]

At this point I can't tell whether Rando puts more effort into his serious posts or his troll posts.

[Big Sloppie]

Finally, something I can agree with you with.

FOS and GRU are balanced though.

[Rando the Crit Clown]

Messaggio originale di Defenestration:

*laughs in 3rd degree*

Third Degree is never equipped because the upgrade part of it is practically nonexistent.