Demoman vs soldier, which one takes more skill?

[Duck]

Yeah, I’m just wondering what everyone thinks. Kinda like a survey, actually, I might as well graph it :p

Anyways, who do you think “takes more skill”, and explain your reason why.

Also, please be open minded. Just because you main soldier doesn’t mean you’re the hotshot on the block. Same goes for demos, but, I rarely see a demo screaming that his pocket girlfriend died

[MeisterKenny]

War update 3 confirmed

[Das Psycho]

I would have to say demo. (Only demo pipes tho) demo stickies are just spam.

[Duck]

Originally posted by Paulie:

War update 3 confirmed

Hope demo gets some sweet ass launchers

[Evoxrus XV]

Demoman. You actually need to aim and predict with pipes. Apart from that not much sets him apart from Soldier since his other weapon(sticky launcher) is as spammy as the Soldier's rockets.

[Rumpus]

Demo.

Those grenades can be really hard to aim, and direct hits only do 100 damage so you usually need to land two.

Pipes also require prediction of movement a lot later than rockets do.

[cake. 🎃]

Soldier
Also 1000$ phone f a s t e s t hahahhaah

[Das Psycho]

Originally posted by Sham!:

Originally posted by LoganTNZ S>UNU:

Why?

because stickies aren't "just spam" and most importantly aren't easy to use against anyone that is somewhat competent

Hold m2 click m1 in the direction the enemy will soon be. How is that not spam? There is a reason "stickyspam" is a term and "pipespam" is not.

[Tronex]

Originally posted by Spooky Scary Psycho:

Hold m2 click m1 in the direction the enemy will soon be. How is that not spam?

This is your argument?
Pretty much every weapon out there: press m1 in the direction the enemy is or will soon be. How is that not spam?

Originally posted by Spooky Scary Psycho:

There is a reason "stickyspam" is a term and "pipespam" is not.

Thank you pubs.

[trash]

floorclicking beeflords outnumber okay-tier sticky placement by like 200:1 on na pubs

[trash]

Originally posted by LoganTNZ S>UNU:

Why do people think “sticky spam” is such a bad thing though?

mainly dustbowl
by like a lot

but also kritz demos with a pocket medic that roll uncoordinated teams since demo is a bit more complicated to play against than the usual pub counter strat of throwing 4 spies+4 snipers at a heavy

Like, people aren’t complaining about “rocket spam”

they do
mostly after the demo nerf, the no-wasd babies moved onto the next explosive class
last year's endless nerf rocket splash plez was obscene

[Das Psycho]

Originally posted by Sham!:

Originally posted by Spooky Scary Psycho:

Hold m2 click m1 in the direction the enemy will soon be. How is that not spam? There is a reason "stickyspam" is a term and "pipespam" is not.

what if the enemy doesn't go there tho :thinking:

it's almost like people that can play the videogame will effortlessly dodge one of the slowest projectiles in the game and maul one of the less suited classes for direct combact

feel free to join a dm server and do your stickyspam, I have the feeling you'll leave in minutes

Yes. Because i can admit im not the best at demo. Especially 1v1's or a comp setting.

[bad at rj]

You need to define the environment and skill level involved.

It is generally agreed upon that demoman is more difficult to play than soldier at the highest level of 6s.

Your grenade launcher has little chance to connect beyond close range, your stickybombs has an arm time, meaning you use it beyond close range. However, probability of projectiles dealing damage decrease with displacement. The only advantage of a stickybomb relative to a rocket (besides difference in damage) is controlled detonation without need for a surface.

It is generally agreed upon that hitscan is superior to projectiles, especially in 6s. It is arguably easier for a high level player to use a shotgun to its fullest potential (perfect mestshots) relative to projectiles (detonation in the middle of hitbox). High level players can dodge projectiles (yes, even close range rockets & mid-range stickybombs), while hitscan is solely dependent on the user, regardless of how the enemy dodge, juke, jump etc, a well-aimed shot will deal damage.

It is widely accepted among high level players that the ease of dealing respectable (not perfect, but significant) damage with projectiles is in order of :

Close range:
rocket > grenade > stickybomb

Beyond close range:
stickybomb > rocket > grenade

easiest -> hardest

Stickybomb, with its arm time, will be limited in close range. Stickbomb can be charged to increase projectile speed & with controlled detonation, is strongest at mid-range.
Grenade is the fastest among projectiles, strength lies in close range. A requirement to connect directly for instant explosion reduced reliability.
Rocket explodes instantly on surfaces, strength decreases with range.


Overall, among the 4 main weapons of the 2 classes, the ranking from easiest to hardest to use efficiently (by a high level player) can be ranked as follows:

shotgun > rocket ≥ stickybomb > grenade

easiest -> hardest

For mobility, soldier’s rocket jump can be used much more actively than a sticky (or grenade) jump, meaning demoman(s) has to pay more attention than soldiers to prevent getting caught, hence more ‘skill’ required here for demoman. One may argue that demoman’s higher base speed (280 vs 240 hu/s) and greater distance for sticky jump reduced demoman’s ‘skill’ required. I shall negate the factor of mobility since they approximately cancel out.

Soldier has more health than demoman (200 vs 175). This means soldier can sustain more damage in active combat, reducing the ‘skill’ required.

Now, with weapons, mobility & health into consideration, we can see that soldier across the board generally requires less ‘skill’ than demoman.

This support the opinions of most high level players that soldier is supposedly ‘easier’ than demoman.

Note: Both classes have extremely high skill ceiling, the difference is marginal and insignificant compared to say, that between a demoman/soldier and a heavy (for example, no hard feelings).


Edit: for mobility, I missed out on the advanced jumping. For most actually useful and viable jumps in normal scenarios (no syncs, wallclimb, wallpogo, air pogo downpogo etc), rocket jumping mag requiring chaining like a high bomb or speedshot or speedpogo. Sticky jumping is relatively simple (if you disregard kaidus process rollout, or alle reckoner last sack). Demoman takes less ‘skill’ here, but this is not really significant to the classes’ ‘skill’ comparsion overall.

[Das Psycho]

Originally posted by Sham!:

Originally posted by Spooky Scary Psycho:

Yes. Because i can admit im not the best at demo. Especially 1v1's or a comp setting.

how come you are not good if stickyspam is so easy?

I said not in comp or 1v1 where demo mains would tear me a new one. In pub play a child could do it.

[Das Psycho]

Originally posted by Sham!:

Originally posted by Spooky Scary Psycho:

I said not in comp or 1v1 where demo mains would tear me a new one. In pub play a child could do it.

it's almost like playing against bad players is easy, as any class

Let me clarify. Stickyspam is a part of demo like rocketspam, wm1, etc. Not a main core in terms of skill but still a necessary part.

[Tronex]

Originally posted by Sham!:

Originally posted by Spooky Scary Psycho:

I said not in comp or 1v1 where demo mains would tear me a new one. In pub play a child could do it.

it's almost like playing against bad players is easy, as any class

*insert "wew!" expression here