TF2 youtuber drama, and why it goes FAR deeper than you think.

[Schizoman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Va3-PF09pXw (Listen while you read)

So recently, as you probably know, Uncle Dane posted a video where he took 5 seconds to take a shot at former TF2 youtuber Star. Illustrated in this image: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=912390438

So basically, Dane brings up that Star began this pessimistic meme that "Mini sentries are cancer" Which continued loooong after they were nerfed. Despite his massive platform, he did not take into account the sheer weight his opinions can have on the community. This was a good observation, but it's just an example of the massive negative impact youtubers like Star and more recently Muselk have had on the community, and their sickening ignorance to the power they have in their platforms. "Mini sentries are cancer" "Never cap on hightower" The Phlog is OP" "MYM was the 9/11 of TF2" "Friendlies" ALL of this and more are due to their influences.

At this point I wish to inform you that this thread isn't about the specificity of Dane VS Star, or arguing who is right. It is about the power youtubers have, how they misuse it, and how it damages the community.

Remember MYM? How, before it was released, it was "GONNA SAAAAVE TF2 FROM TEH BIG BADD OVERWATCH" I didn't see Muselk, with all his influence, with all his support, suggest anything for it. Meanwhile Funke, Dane, and the competitive community were doing all they could to rally the community in a positive way, making suggestions, etc.

MYM drops, and it's just kinda meh. It's not a godsend, it's not terrible, it just doesn't cater to utter casuals for a change and doesn't give the comp players the mode they desevred. Muselk, despite not doing ANYTHING with his massive platform to help the game, posts this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=She2s7JZsDI

A terrible video filled with easily disputed claims, Stats and graphs obviously skewed in his favor, and hatemongering against the devs and anyone who plays the game beyond a casual level. He attempts to shift the blame towards VALVE, a company, admittedly with massive flaws, that still has the courtesy to keep this game alive after nearly a decade.

The TF2 devs aren't the only problem, sure, they seem out of touch at times, but when the community constantly spews so much relentless hatred and needless animosity, I can understand why communication is hard.

Youtubers should use their influence for good, not to complain and fling♥♥♥♥♥♥at the devs who made the game they get their cash from.

Regarding the Muselk video, I took it apart somewhat.

Muselk: Valve completely removed the way 90% of TF2 players like to enjoy the game

No, just factually wrong. You just have to queue up now, nothing changes except it looks slightly more serious and the objective is clearer. Also, 90% seems like a made up statistic.

Muselk: TF2 is a casual game.

Again, it CAN be. For me, anyone who goes in a server with the purpose of winning is not playing casually. Maybe for someone like you who just wants to get 20 kills and leave, it is, but most people play with a goal in mind. Just because they aren't trying their ABSOLUTE HARDEST does not make it casual.

Muselk: The personality is gone, I sit around until I get matched into a random pl server, with random faceless people.

Yes because when you get to choose the random payload server from the other 100 identical random payload servers, you feel much more included, the players much friendlier. I see more team communication than ever now. This point just makes no sense.

Muselk: It's almost like Valve looked at Overwatch with it's queues and leaver penalties and profile levels and said "Hey it's working for them, lets put it in TF2" But TF2 is not Overwatch.

Wow, TF2 is not Overwatch. In other news, the sky is blue. TF2 may not be Overwatch, but Overwatch is designed with a more modern look. TF2 can't remain in the past if it wants to continue being relevant. There's nothing wrong with a good game taking inspiration from another good game IF IT IS TASTEFUL. I didn't see you complain when Overwatch took a million things from TF2, but you've shilled for OW a looooong time ago and all but abandoned TF2 for it. (Which makes me think you'd love this change"

Muselk: Bad updates and poor balance have been happening for years and the problem is communication.

Yeah, this is true. Some people have gone to Valve HQ and talked with them, made suggestions, the devs are reaching out more than ever now (See their Pyro Update interview with Tyler McVicker where they go so far in depth) Some parts of the community ARE communicating. And YOU, Muselk, Star, who-the-♥♥♥♥-ever, with ALL your influence, what did YOU do? Nothing. You sat back and said nothing, then blamed the devs, it's THEIR fault THEY didn't communicate.

Muselk: Valves only communication seems to be with comp players.

First off, this is wrong, they had an AMA on reddit and the aforementioned interviews with VNN. Second, in terms of balance changes, this is a GOOD thing. Any game, even one you falsely claim is casual at heart, should be balanced around the highest level of play. They know more than you, you even admit that in the video. If Valve needs more diverse insight, WHY DON'T YOU TALK TO THEM, YOU HAVE ALL THE SUPPORT RIGHT?

Muselk: Valve understands absolutely nothing about their own game. (Said as he runs into a sticky trap)

Uncle Dane's actual visit to Valve HQ would say otherwise. I'll take his firsthand evidence over your ramblings any day. When I watched their interview with VNN they seemed very knowledgeable as well. It's worth noting he was citing the Phlog buff in Tough Break as his evidence here, keep that in mind.

Muselk: It's just like STAR said a year ago, it's like none of the devs even play the game!

Again, disproven by my former comment. Also more pessimism, awesome.

Muselk: The sad thing is, the community has so much faith.

No, they don't. Mostly thanks to you, they think the devs are idiotic and unreasonable, they think nothing they say will matter, so they say nothing, there's your communication problem.

Muselk: They always build hype around these updates, saying they'll be game changers. In reality, there's nothing new there.

THEY SAID IT WOULD BE NEATO. THAT'S LITERALLY ALL THEY SAID. ONE DEV SAID "IT'LL BE NEATO" THAT'S ♥♥♥♥ING IT. If there was nothing new there, you would not be complaining.

Muselk: I don't even know where i'm going with this video

Wow, me neither

Muselk: There are still one or two community servers where I can get an experience like pre-MYM but it's not what it used to be.

Those two statements contradict each other



EDIT: Wow, 200 comments, ok, I say if we got this far we might be able to have our own inflence on the community.

Just a reminder a lot of this is my own opinion and not to go flame any of these youtubers on my behalf.

[pathulhu]

Originally posted by Corpulent Swine:

Who cares what some yuppy punk with a $500 chair and mic has to say about a 10 year old game?

Apparently we do because its affecting our attitude and how we react to things.

[Schizoman]

Originally posted by KaZ:

Oh also,you want Muselk to beg for the obvious ? to a corporation whose anti cheat dosent works.

How does anti cheat being bad disprove anything I said.

Come to think of it, CSGO only has good anticheat because they get volunteer community members to review matches with cheaters and render a verdict. Yet another thing where community response is absolutely needed.

TF2 has such an enthusiastic community at times. Shame we never get a chance to use that

[finno korean hyperwar veteran]

I agree with the OP, they don't realize what they're doing.
In fact, the only TF2 youtuber that I like is Jerma. He didn't cause anything bad really (or at least as much as the others ster ) and he's legit funny for me. Is this bad or what?

[MegaHunts]

Originally posted by Toomyx:

I agree with the OP, they don't realize what they're doing.
In fact, the only TF2 youtuber that I like is Jerma. He didn't cause anything bad really (or at least as much as the others ster ) and he's legit funny for me. Is this bad or what?

Jerma? Pff, hes too comedic to give bad causes to tf2 (maybe friendlies)

[piss wizard]

Originally posted by Toomyx:

I agree with the OP, they don't realize what they're doing.
In fact, the only TF2 youtuber that I like is Jerma. He didn't cause anything bad really (or at least as much as the others ster ) and he's legit funny for me. Is this bad or what?

Plus Jerma actually came back for TF2 for a one-off stream and he actually had fun, and was nostalgic for his older days.

[Dondon]

Originally posted by Erick:

I don't care about the drama part, what interests me is how some parts of the community are still influenced by horrible egotistical YouTubers who have poor knowledge of the game and go straight to pessimistic "jokes" and that leads to many people who don't think twice for themselves to follow suit.

Thanks to Ster, we still have that awful no cap rule on Hightower and thanks to Mueslk, we have people who just hate on every update every opportunity they get. Big YouTubers attract quite a bit of not so thinking people, so best to hope those people are attracted to someone who can think instead of you know, every almost big YouTuber out there now.

That is really true. If memory serves, Muselk said "Overwatch will kill TF2" and eeeeverybody lost their minds.

[bebop_]

Originally posted by Shadowlord90 (Nikolai):

Star_ is only proving that he was always a tryhard, and despite stranding himself from TF2 and wanting to distant it to be an Overwatch-dog; he still wants to be the big kid on the block; so nobody can dare to slam him. He's acting like he's the God of TF2, and anyone who dares say anything against him is the child for daring to address his unquestioned memes.

He's not. And people have discovered this.

[finno korean hyperwar veteran]

Originally posted by Merc:

Originally posted by Erick:

I don't care about the drama part, what interests me is how some parts of the community are still influenced by horrible egotistical YouTubers who have poor knowledge of the game and go straight to pessimistic "jokes" and that leads to many people who don't think twice for themselves to follow suit.

Thanks to Ster, we still have that awful no cap rule on Hightower and thanks to Mueslk, we have people who just hate on every update every opportunity they get. Big YouTubers attract quite a bit of not so thinking people, so best to hope those people are attracted to someone who can think instead of you know, every almost big YouTuber out there now.

That is really true. If memory serves, Muselk said "Overwatch will kill TF2" and eeeeverybody lost their minds.

Can you imagine how peaceful the TF2 and Overwatch communities would be if they just kept their mouths shut about it?

[Schizoman]

Originally posted by Toomyx:

Originally posted by Merc:

That is really true. If memory serves, Muselk said "Overwatch will kill TF2" and eeeeverybody lost their minds.

Can you imagine how peaceful the TF2 and Overwatch communities would be if they just kept their mouths shut about it?

The games can co-exist
The games can be compared without rage being involved
The games SHOULD learn from each other

This one isn't Muselk's or Star's fault. I blame MatPat for this one

[piss wizard]

Originally posted by Harmless:

Originally posted by Toomyx:

Can you imagine how peaceful the TF2 and Overwatch communities would be if they just kept their mouths shut about it?

The games can co-exist
The games can be compared without rage being involved
The games SHOULD learn from each other

This one isn't Muselk's or Star's fault. I blame MatPat for this one

We all should agree that MatPat is responsible. He wasn't just making bad content: he was even misinforming, which is just sad.

[finno korean hyperwar veteran]

Originally posted by Harmless:

Originally posted by Toomyx:

Can you imagine how peaceful the TF2 and Overwatch communities would be if they just kept their mouths shut about it?

The games can co-exist
The games can be compared without rage being involved
The games SHOULD learn from each other

This one isn't Muselk's or Star's fault. I blame MatPat for this one

Oh yeah
Him
I dread hearing that name again...
You know what? his older videos were decent and entertaining in my opinion, now he just makes clickbait and ♥♥♥♥. Not to mention how a lot of his facts are wrong or easily debunked while saying every 5 seconds ''and here's the kicker'' ''and I KNOW for a fact''
It all crashed down in 2015, and 2016 just made it thousands of times worse.

[fokuto]

Originally posted by Zacharie the Merchant:

Originally posted by Harmless:

The games can co-exist
The games can be compared without rage being involved
The games SHOULD learn from each other

This one isn't Muselk's or Star's fault. I blame MatPat for this one

We all should he wasn't just making bad content: he was even misinforming, which is just sad.

He's a liar and a lazy ♥♥♥♥, relying on information of his own ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ viewers who are supposed to be the ones informed.

[Suberb Anthro]

Originally posted by Zacharie the Merchant:

Hey, an actual intelligent post about TFtubers.

[Dondon]

Originally posted by Harmless:

Originally posted by Toomyx:

Can you imagine how peaceful the TF2 and Overwatch communities would be if they just kept their mouths shut about it?

The games can co-exist
The games can be compared without rage being involved
The games SHOULD learn from each other

This one isn't Muselk's or Star's fault. I blame MatPat for this one

Mat is pretty much at fault ofc but Muselk still had a bit of indirect influence to it.

[PL@YER]

Originally posted by Toomyx:

Originally posted by Merc:

That is really true. If memory serves, Muselk said "Overwatch will kill TF2" and eeeeverybody lost their minds.

Can you imagine how peaceful the TF2 and Overwatch communities would be if they just kept their mouths shut about it?

Their would still be infighting.