VRChat (achieve 60fps and recommended headset)

[Notshane]

Firstly, I am wondering if I can run VRChat any higher than 30fps. For basics, I have:

8GB RAM/VRAM
Sapphire Radeon R9 290X
AMD FX-8370

And also, with the Oculus Rift, would I be able to do most of what Vive users can do? Some of thme kneel down, but I'm not sure if that's cause the Vive is detecting them or if it's an emote in the game, but it looks like they're doing it themselves.

[WeenieHut420]

Okay so after looking up all your specs online, Your RAM is fine, your CPU is fine, your graphics card could be better. I don't think you'll achieve 60 FPS with it but I think your computer is VR capable. What FPS does your game run at on desktop mode?

I have a huge rant about what VR headset to get, but Ill try to keep it short. VR is great, Im still enjoying mine, there is a handful of great titles, but honestly.. Like ONE handful... I couldn't stomach paying $400-$600 for an Occulus or a Vive and ontop of that overpriced VR titles with what so little the market has to offer right now. There may be a lot of VR titles but its a lot of garbage ware too. So I have a Windows Mixed Reality headset, the pros outweigh the cons with this headset, and the best part is its $200-$250. So you don't have too invest a leg into VR and then be like Meh with the library.

But don't get Occulus dear god.. Go Vive or go Windows, unless you got a real sweet deal on that Occulus. 1: Its owned by Mark ZuckerFck. 2: Its external tracking is ♥♥♥♥♥♥ unless you have at least 3-4 cameras, which is so expensive at that point you should have gotten a Vive, and it still wont be as good as the Vive. 3: Windows VR has internal tracking in the headset so it tracks your surroundings and so you can 360 with ease and even crouch, and lay down in VR chat by crouching or laying down in real life... Where as Occulus would have a hard time seeing those movements especially with only 2 cameras. Vive is king, Windows VR is the new big player in the VR game, and Occulus can get lost, hope I helped.

[Notshane]

Początkowo opublikowane przez WeenieHut420:

Okay so after looking up all your specs online, Your RAM is fine, your CPU is fine, your graphics card could be better. I don't think you'll achieve 60 FPS with it but I think your computer is VR capable. What FPS does your game run at on desktop mode?

Really. I figured the processor was the bottleneck, but never expected the Radeon to be the problem. I ran a dev kit of Oculus a few years ago and it ran decent for the most part. I just figured it was a lack of optimization that it ran bad at times. If I can't even deal 60fps, the experience would make me feel motion sickness, wouldn't it? I know they even suggest 120fps at times as well, but I would've been fine with 60fps.

Oh, and I hit a consistent 90fps in Desktop Mode.

Początkowo opublikowane przez WeenieHut420:

I have a huge rant about what VR headset to get, but Ill try to keep it short. VR is great, Im still enjoying mine, there is a handful of great titles, but honestly.. Like ONE handful... I couldn't stomach paying $400-$600 for an Occulus or a Vive and ontop of that overpriced VR titles with what so little the market has to offer right now. There may be a lot of VR titles but its a lot of garbage ware too. So I have a Windows Mixed Reality headset, the pros outweigh the cons with this headset, and the best part is its $200-$250. So you don't have too invest a leg into VR and then be like Meh with the library.

Windows Mixed Reality? Hmm, never heard of that option before.

Początkowo opublikowane przez WeenieHut420:

But don't get Occulus dear god.. Go Vive or go Windows, unless you got a real sweet deal on that Occulus. 1: Its owned by Mark ZuckerFck. 2: Its external tracking is ♥♥♥♥♥♥ unless you have at least 3-4 cameras, which is so expensive at that point you should have gotten a Vive, and it still wont be as good as the Vive. 3: Windows VR has internal tracking in the headset so it tracks your surroundings and so you can 360 with ease and even crouch, and lay down in VR chat by crouching or laying down in real life... Where as Occulus would have a hard time seeing those movements especially with only 2 cameras. Vive is king, Windows VR is the new big player in the VR game, and Occulus can get lost, hope I helped.

Vive is still $600, well Oculus is now $400, so it's a sweet deal regardless really, though I do know what you mean about the additional cameras setting me back close to Vive. I don't care too much about the moving around, mostly just being able to crouch a little bit and move my head around a decent amount. I have spare money, so I can buy either the Oculus or the Vive. I need your opinion purely on which one has better tracking and controllers, not so much the pricing.

Oh, and speaking of that room thing, many did say Vive benefits from a bigger room. I'd say mine isn't small, but I wouldn't walk around in it and even if I wanted to, I hear Vive has a lot more to setup to even engage in the additional VR activity, such as drilling the cameras into the walls. And I would trip on the wires, alongside my headphones since Vive needs headphones, well Oculus has a lot of the stuff built into the headset.

So, does Vive have a minimal setup where I could just put the cameras next to me to guarantee I at least have decent head rotation and can crouch only a little bit? I don't want to stand up or anything and would mostly be sitting down, so would I be able to just place two cameras in front of me so I can simply move my head around with ease and not worry about it jerking or abruptly stopping? Or, do the cameras only have the option of being mounted to a wall and can't be placed on a table.

[WeenieHut420]

So right now is a tricky time period to be buying. Vive Pro was just announced and they said we may see it avaliable by the end of this quarter. That will truly be #1 of VR hardware. It'll have internal tracking,hand tracking, as well as the external base stations, so it will be a very immersive experience. And even if you don't think you want the Vive Pro, that just means the normal/old Vive will be cheaper very soon, so buying one of those right now could be... an unfortunate investment.. Could be.. Perhaps not if prices don't dip on release of the new Vive Pro.

Tracking with the Vive is great however, can be room scale or a seated environment, however the cameras still need to be placed a certain distance from eachother in your room, so they can make contact with eachother so it can visualize your enviroment and track you.

Tracking with Occulus has base stations, these cameras are just not as good as the Vive's. They aren't as precise, and I've seen Occulus user's avatars struggle to do 360's in Vr chat, having more cameras helps eliminate this, but then, more cameras, mo problems. The controllers, no complaints, just make sure they can be seen by the cameras. Occulus has built in headset and mic I think, if thats a good enough perk for ya.

Windows VR is pretty decent, outta watch some youtube on it. Basically, Microsoft wanted a VR headset, made this software and went to all the computer manufacturers, Asus, Dell, Lenovo, Samsung, etc and was like, "Hey make a headset. " So each company came out with their own headset so you have a variety to choose from, but they all have the same software inside. It has internal tracking so no outside cameras needed. No big setup, just plug, download and play. Not to say it has the best tracking, but the price factor, it really makes it worth it. You can 360 with ease in any game, crouching is there too. The controller tracking is probably the biggest con people have but they make a bigger deal out of it than they know. I give it a B+. I can reach for magazines without looking, and switch guns behind my back in Space Pirates. But accurate hand tracking really has to happen infront of you, if you move your controller out of view of the internal camera too long, it will lose tracking until you bring it in sight. But then again, not much stuff you grab while not looking at it. However, I got a kill in the CSGO VR game today by quick drawing my pistol without looking at my belt, Felt good... Real good.. And It was possible with the internal tracking too.. One con I will say is, Scopes.. If you bring the scope to your eye like a real scope, the handwill lose tracking if you bring your hand to close to your face. Given, sniping free hand is already hard af in the first place, and when you have to worry about how close you can get your hand to your face, it can be tedious. If someone made a 3D printed stock for Windows Controllers, it'd be a different story. Oh Windows VR also has better resolution/clarity than both Vive and Occulus... and thats a huge thing for me.

So its like:
1. Vive = $600
2, Occulus = $400
3. Windows VR =$200-$250

But Im going to stress the game selection again. The game selection is decent but not fantastic, and expensive so I don't own all titles I desire yet. So you have to take into consideration, You might spend $600 on a Vive.. but not be playing anything worthwhile. Like Fallout 4 VR is an abomination. So Windows VR helped bridge that feeling that I wasn't investing too much into something I didn't know about yet.... Cause even still I only have like 4-5 VR games, and after you play VR awhile, your heart longs for Multiplayer VR games, and that narrows down the good VR title selection even more. So have you tried VR already or is this something brand new youre not sure youre going to like yet?

[Notshane]

Początkowo opublikowane przez WeenieHut420:

So right now is a tricky time period to be buying. Vive Pro was just announced and they said we may see it avaliable by the end of this quarter. That will truly be #1 of VR hardware. It'll have internal tracking,hand tracking, as well as the external base stations, so it will be a very immersive experience. And even if you don't think you want the Vive Pro, that just means the normal/old Vive will be cheaper very soon, so buying one of those right now could be... an unfortunate investment.. Could be.. Perhaps not if prices don't dip on release of the new Vive Pro.

Er, I don't think my PC would even be capable to handle Vive Pro. And I'm sure it has more stuff to setup anyway, alongside possibly being a thousand bucks. You only make a good point in regards to Vive being cheaper sometime at the end of this year, but by that point, I don't think I'll have time for video games anymore.

Początkowo opublikowane przez WeenieHut420:

Tracking with the Vive is great however, can be room scale or a seated environment, however the cameras still need to be placed a certain distance from eachother in your room, so they can make contact with eachother so it can visualize your enviroment and track you.

Tracking with Occulus has base stations, these cameras are just not as good as the Vive's. They aren't as precise, and I've seen Occulus user's avatars struggle to do 360's in Vr chat, having more cameras helps eliminate this, but then, more cameras, mo problems. The controllers, no complaints, just make sure they can be seen by the cameras. Occulus has built in headset and mic I think, if thats a good enough perk for ya.

Windows VR is pretty decent, outta watch some youtube on it. Basically, Microsoft wanted a VR headset, made this software and went to all the computer manufacturers, Asus, Dell, Lenovo, Samsung, etc and was like, "Hey make a headset. " So each company came out with their own headset so you have a variety to choose from, but they all have the same software inside. It has internal tracking so no outside cameras needed. No big setup, just plug, download and play. Not to say it has the best tracking, but the price factor, it really makes it worth it. You can 360 with ease in any game, crouching is there too. The controller tracking is probably the biggest con people have but they make a bigger deal out of it than they know. I give it a B+. I can reach for magazines without looking, and switch guns behind my back in Space Pirates. But accurate hand tracking really has to happen infront of you, if you move your controller out of view of the internal camera too long, it will lose tracking until you bring it in sight. But then again, not much stuff you grab while not looking at it. However, I got a kill in the CSGO VR game today by quick drawing my pistol without looking at my belt, Felt good... Real good.. And It was possible with the internal tracking too.. One con I will say is, Scopes.. If you bring the scope to your eye like a real scope, the handwill lose tracking if you bring your hand to close to your face. Given, sniping free hand is already hard af in the first place, and when you have to worry about how close you can get your hand to your face, it can be tedious. If someone made a 3D printed stock for Windows Controllers, it'd be a different story. Oh Windows VR also has better resolution/clarity than both Vive and Occulus... and thats a huge thing for me.

Wait, it has better clarity, built-in tracking and the only downfall is your hands can't be too close to your face? So, are Vive and Oculus like Bats where they're overpriced for the sake of brand name? I don't know anymore.

Początkowo opublikowane przez WeenieHut420:

So its like:
1. Vive = $600
2, Occulus = $400
3. Windows VR =$200-$250

But Im going to stress the game selection again. The game selection is decent but not fantastic, and expensive so I don't own all titles I desire yet. So you have to take into consideration, You might spend $600 on a Vive.. but not be playing anything worthwhile. Like Fallout 4 VR is an abomination. So Windows VR helped bridge that feeling that I wasn't investing too much into something I didn't know about yet.... Cause even still I only have like 4-5 VR games, and after you play VR awhile, your heart longs for Multiplayer VR games, and that narrows down the good VR title selection even more. So have you tried VR already or is this something brand new youre not sure youre going to like yet?

I tried a dev kit for the Oculus Rift, as I stated earlier (assumed you read my entire reply), and I thought it was pretty fun as is right there. Windows VR may very well be a huge step up from that if you say it has the best quality of the three, but what I'm saying here is I may not notice it as much if I were to jump from either current Oculus or Vive since I'm upgrading from my previous standpoint regardless.

Can't stress enough that, well it may be silly I want to buy VR just for this one game, I feel like I'd have a very fun time in it. And the game itself doesn't look that demanding, given it's just models loaded into a 3D environment that doesn't even have much going on. If the minimum requirement is 4GB of RAM and only needing the modern 5.1 shaders and such to look its best at most, I feel I would be able to run the game fine with either VR and I don't think any of them would have trouble running a game as basic looking as VRChat.

Really, I want you to dart my concerns here and decide which VR is the best for:

- Head and finger tracking.
- Rotation and movement.
- Functionally sound.

I believe, based on what you're saying, the Vive has good head tracking and good controllers, but simply falls under the case of a better version coming out later this year as the only reason I shouldn't get it.

Oculus Rift is adequate, but has peculiar head tracking and the controllers are comparable.

And the Windows VR alternatives have built-in head tracking (easiest to setup) and cost the cheapest, but don't really have good controllers and thus, that must be why they are so cheap. The technology primarily goes into the headset.

Based on these statistics, you'd think I would want Vive since it has good tracking, the controllers function the best and it will overall give me the best experience for VR. If my VR even has a bit of trouble, then I'm obviously not buying the right one. Sounds like I'd want Oculus Rift if I lack funds and Windows VR if I want to watch things, correct me if I'm wrong. Vive feels like the best for the future of VR gaming, but my only downside to buying it is I risk the Vive Pro being significantly better.

[WeenieHut420]

Truly Vive is the best, and I think the Vive Pro will be a big leap like you said. They are reworking a new controller design as well and it will have even higher clarity and resolution than the Windows Headset, they are truly going all out again. Since you said you only want to run this game... I don't think you'll need a Vive. But I'm almost certain youre going to want to explore more titles, but you don't have to get a Vive. So Vive is king, it's the king of tracking, head, rotation, movement, funtionally sound, but a large investment. A pro is there is additional addons you can buy later on to make it even more immersive, a wireless adapter so no more wire... Or leg trackers.. So you can build your VR arsenal over time.

So on any VR..Finger tracking is done on the controller's circle touchpad, imagine the touchpad is a face of a clock and each hour on the clock would be a different finger movement. So 12 O'clock would make me point. 2 O'clock makes me do the peace sign, 6 O'clock makes me do a thumbs up. Grabbing things usually consists of just pulling the trigger, or sometimes the grip button on the side.

Occulus may have better controller tracking because of the external cameras, you will be able to throw things much more naturally, because you can get a full swing without adjusting your head at all. In Windows VR as long as you look in the direction of your hands it tracks, and even a bit more. Its a broad field of view, but not full range like the Vive's. But Ive done bowling, thrown grenades, thrown hay makers, played basketball, grabbed arrows from a quiver. As long as the movements required that are outside of your field of view are quick, they work. If you were to lets say, pull a pin on a grenade, and then hold it behind your back for a few seconds, and then try to throw it...It probably wont track.. But if you do it quick, then alls good. Everythings gone fine with the Windows Headset for me, except Dodgeball... Dodgeball was difficult, I had to develop a way to throw the ball that worked for me, I dunno if it was just a wierd game, cause I throw things easily in the others. Because my overhead or hay maker throws wouldnt work, I had to like underhand and backhand it...

Occulus head tracking is fine as long as there is no obstructions. Full body and rotation movement is where I think the Occulus lacks, and additional cameras are expensive. I have a lot of gripe about Occulus, and Ive talked with many people in VR Chat and we compare our sets and from a total price to quality ratio.. and a lot of them wish they could have seen the Windows VR before they bought their Occulus. However I will say more games are optimized for Occulus it being popular like the Vive, most people don't know of Windows Headsets which is another thing.. Some games are optimized for Windows some arent, some games will say they are optimized, some wont say they are optimized but still work. Like Pavlov and many other titles. Total functionality and score I give the Occulus is a 7/10.

Windows VR head tracking is great uses your room around you, so I have a rather small room, too small for VR but I do it anyway and smack my furniture constantly and thats not gonna stop me! I dont have to worry about staying within sights of cameras because the cameras are with me, so it makes it really good for dodging bullets, crouching and other things in games because I have the total freedom of not having to worry about staying in the line of sight. Head tracking and movement are great for those reasons. So I guess thats another reason is, your room can be any size and itll work for Windows VR, you just run the risk of smacking everything. While the other VR setups kind of demand a free space. Total functionality I give it a 8/10.

[Notshane]

Początkowo opublikowane przez WeenieHut420:

Truly Vive is the best, and I think the Vive Pro will be a big leap like you said. They are reworking a new controller design as well and it will have even higher clarity and resolution than the Windows Headset, they are truly going all out again. Since you said you only want to run this game... I don't think you'll need a Vive. But I'm almost certain youre going to want to explore more titles, but you don't have to get a Vive. So Vive is king, it's the king of tracking, head, rotation, movement, funtionally sound, but a large investment. A pro is there is additional addons you can buy later on to make it even more immersive, a wireless adapter so no more wire... Or leg trackers.. So you can build your VR arsenal over time.

Yeah, it sounds like it'll be miles better.

Początkowo opublikowane przez WeenieHut420:

So on any VR..Finger tracking is done on the controller's circle touchpad, imagine the touchpad is a face of a clock and each hour on the clock would be a different finger movement. So 12 O'clock would make me point. 2 O'clock makes me do the peace sign, 6 O'clock makes me do a thumbs up. Grabbing things usually consists of just pulling the trigger, or sometimes the grip button on the side.

Occulus may have better controller tracking because of the external cameras, you will be able to throw things much more naturally, because you can get a full swing without adjusting your head at all. In Windows VR as long as you look in the direction of your hands it tracks, and even a bit more. Its a broad field of view, but not full range like the Vive's. But Ive done bowling, thrown grenades, thrown hay makers, played basketball, grabbed arrows from a quiver. As long as the movements required that are outside of your field of view are quick, they work. If you were to lets say, pull a pin on a grenade, and then hold it behind your back for a few seconds, and then try to throw it...It probably wont track.. But if you do it quick, then alls good. Everythings gone fine with the Windows Headset for me, except Dodgeball... Dodgeball was difficult, I had to develop a way to throw the ball that worked for me, I dunno if it was just a wierd game, cause I throw things easily in the others. Because my overhead or hay maker throws wouldnt work, I had to like underhand and backhand it...

Hmm, if there's anything wrong at all with the gameplay aspect, I am counting Windows Mixed Reality out. After all, if I can indeed afford a superior option, it's best I stick with deciding among those.

Początkowo opublikowane przez WeenieHut420:

Occulus head tracking is fine as long as there is no obstructions. Full body and rotation movement is where I think the Occulus lacks, and additional cameras are expensive. I have a lot of gripe about Occulus, and Ive talked with many people in VR Chat and we compare our sets and from a total price to quality ratio.. and a lot of them wish they could have seen the Windows VR before they bought their Occulus. However I will say more games are optimized for Occulus it being popular like the Vive, most people don't know of Windows Headsets which is another thing.. Some games are optimized for Windows some arent, some games will say they are optimized, some wont say they are optimized but still work. Like Pavlov and many other titles. Total functionality and score I give the Occulus is a 7/10.

Windows VR head tracking is great uses your room around you, so I have a rather small room, too small for VR but I do it anyway and smack my furniture constantly and thats not gonna stop me! I dont have to worry about staying within sights of cameras because the cameras are with me, so it makes it really good for dodging bullets, crouching and other things in games because I have the total freedom of not having to worry about staying in the line of sight. Head tracking and movement are great for those reasons. So I guess thats another reason is, your room can be any size and itll work for Windows VR, you just run the risk of smacking everything. While the other VR setups kind of demand a free space. Total functionality I give it a 8/10.

You know, based on all the VR stuff I've seen recently, even if I want to get the best out there, which would be the Vive Pro, you wonder how much that'll improve the concept of a game as simple as VRChat, which is one of the games I'm going to be primarily playing with either of these headsets.

Even though it looks to be the most painful of the three to setup, I think I'm going to follow my gut and go with Vive. The controller does look like it'll feel more natural for longer play sessions and I can get used to touch pads since analog joysticks in VR games seems pretty redundant when you're primarily using them for smaller movement anyway. And, with it being the most versatile with third-parties, I imagine the orignal Vive won't be outdated immediately after the Vive Pro comes out. Maybe it will be a PS4 and PS4 Pro scenario where the "Pro" is only an upgrade and isn't trying to replace it.

And the last thing I have to consider is that, even if the Vive Pro has better resolution and such, the superior hardware may not work on my current rig. I'm thinking the original Vive is down my alley since it has the lowest resolution between the three; and thus, should run at a stable frame rate. Whatever I am expecting, the quality should still be better than the Dev Kit for the Oculus Rift, though people say the Vive is the only one with a "screen door" effect and that may bother me.

I, too, have listened to people on VRChat now. Many say a Rift is good, only one mentioned Mixed Reality and a lot more said they liked the Vive. And honestly, that alone should make me want to choose the Vive. They even said it's better for a game like VRChat since you're primarily picking up stuff and messing around with objects, which the Vive controller feels more natural for in regards to those interactions. I really only have to get used to the movement options it has, in that I'm abandoning joysticks, a concept I'm very familiar with, for something that may be jerky in movement and require sensitivity adjustments and stuff like that.

The Vive will have a "screen door" effect, the camera setup and batteries will set me back at least another hundred and it'll be the most expensive to invest in between the three for sure because of this. And since drilling holes into the wall is out of the question due to having concrete walls, I have to rely on a shelf setup that may very well fail me. And I find it sad I can't simply put the cameras on the desk since I don't really care about moving around the entire room, so it would've been nice if I had a desk option for the Vive like the Rift has.

So, my final verdict goes as follows:

+ Vive will be the least outdated between the three.
+ Most powerful for the current generation of VR.
+ Vive Pro won't make a game like VRChat significantly better, so Vive is still a good alternative.
- The "screen door" effect may be bothersome.
- Setup will be the most difficult.
- New controller movement option may be difficult to adjust to.

So, I'm going to try it! Worst-case scenario, I send it back if I don't like it! Surely, Amazon would be fair with that since it's VR, lots of people won't be able to adjust to it and some may not even like it at all, so a return option should be there for it. I am familar with it already of course, but my only worry is its resolution isn't as bad as the Dev Kit that the Rift had.

[WeenieHut420]

Cool, glad I could share a bit of insight. The Vive's Cameras have a tri-pod fitting so you can put it on any kind of camera tripod as well. They got poles you can extend from the floor to the ceiling that can attach cameras too.

As for the joystick movement on the Windows VR, not that it matters at this point, they aren't used for anything really, since its the only controller that has a touchpad+joystick, not even the Vive has a joystick, so they can't make games implementing the joystick for anything because the other VRs don't have it. You will use the Windows controllers just like the vives, touchpad, trigger,grip.

But exactly like you said, the Vive Pro not really improving gameplay in such games like VR chat.
And thats the golden question right there. I asked myself that too when I heard the release of the Vive Pro. "Do the games out right now really warrant new VR gear?" Kind of like spending two times as much to go to the same old amusment park on the same rides. Thats why I went with the cheapest VR option to just to test the waters and as of so far, its been a good bet, because I can't say I use my VR constantly and I blame the game selection mostly. VR is still waiting for that one really good title to tie it all in and make it worth it. I really like multiplayer and seeing other VR users, its just funny to imagine the person doing the movements in real life and makes the game feel a bit more personal. VRChat is cool for that reason but honestly its hard to find a cool room of people sometimes. It is the virtual embodiment of some of the worst people and memes on the internet, youll cringe, youll laugh, youll scream, its horrible. : )

But yeah man youll be happy with the Vive, I would have gotten it too if it weren't for cost, but Im gonna wait for the game market to pick up before I go any further into VR. Best of luck and hope you enjoy the multiplayer VR world, its a lotta fun.

[nova]

BTW for some reason no one said. You want 90 frames per second in VR to prevent motion sickness. I struggle getting that in populated rooms. Sometimes it hits 30s. In empty rooms though it hits 90.

[Notshane]

Yeah, thanks dude. I might hold up on the pole setup for now and see how it functions on a desk, cause somebody said they still have amazing range even in a small space and that means I could get away with a standard setup for now.

By the way, I found the Vive for half its current price! Thank you very much for your time. Maybe I'll see you in VRChat!