Combat abilities question.

[Draughir]

Hey guys. Loving this game, now that I'm getting a handle on the mechanics.

My question is this:
Do the combat abilities(specifically the weapon skills (dual wield, one/two-handed, ranged) apply to wizards wielding staves and wands?
Or just physical weapons.

[Chaoslink]

They do. However, you typically don’t stack those much. Warfare for physical builds is the superior choice for any physical build, even if they don’t use the spells Warfare teaches. For wizards, stacking your element and using a staff or wands of that element still buffs the weapon while also buffing the spells. Weapon skills are basically just a thing you dump extra points in the late game. There’s always better options early on.

[Draughir]

Thank you! A lot of little details in this system, and i didn't play the first one.
One more question, but I am pretty sure I know the answer, but i could have missed something.

Is there any way to create 'weapon sets'?
I typically like to play the D&D type ranger, good at melee and ranged, but without a way to 'quick swap' it makes this rather impractical.. particularly for dual wielding and/or sword and board.

[Chaoslink]

Not really. You can change weapons in combat one at a time, but it works best when swapping to just a single weapon. Unequipping costs no AP but equipping takes 1 per item. So swapping from a bow to a dual weapon setup is twice the cost of just one.

Also, to just reinforce from my post above, weapon skills like Ranged really aren’t worth the investment other than a point or two late game. Most builds cap one skill and raise a second to 5, then take the last 6ish points and spread them into other skills for support spells like Adrenaline, the various self teleports and other things. So there’s not much reason to put into the weapon skills. Warfare’s 5% boost is actually more than the 5% boost of weapon skills so the extra whatever the weapon skill offers isn’t really worthwhile. The only one that is, is single handed for just one point to get that 100% accuracy. But there’s no good single handed setup all that worth it to begin with.

[Draughir]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

Not really. You can change weapons in combat one at a time, but it works best when swapping to just a single weapon. Unequipping costs no AP but equipping takes 1 per item. So swapping from a bow to a dual weapon setup is twice the cost of just one.

Also, to just reinforce from my post above, weapon skills like Ranged really aren’t worth the investment other than a point or two late game. Most builds cap one skill and raise a second to 5, then take the last 6ish points and spread them into other skills for support spells like Adrenaline, the various self teleports and other things. So there’s not much reason to put into the weapon skills. Warfare’s 5% boost is actually more than the 5% boost of weapon skills so the extra whatever the weapon skill offers isn’t really worthwhile. The only one that is, is single handed for just one point to get that 100% accuracy. But there’s no good single handed setup all that worth it to begin with.

Ah. I thought as much. So my build is not as useful as I'd hoped. I tried to make a custom combination rogue/huntsman to sort of reflect the D&D Ranger of old(heard they've changed quite a bit in 5th Ed.)
Bummer. I have pretty much fubar'd this build, then. I'll have to see if i can salvage it at the mirror. Can you unlearn spells? I haven't tried.

I guess my assessment that the system is somewhat flawed wasn't far off. Not terrible mind you, it's a good system, just lacking to my personal tastes.

[Chaoslink]

It’s probably the source of most of the game’s flaws honestly. I don’t understand why the skills that teach spells and all the weapon focuses and the like all share the same point investment when the ones that let you learn spells are so much better overall. If the weapon skills had their own unique abilities unique to the weapon type, then they’d be relevant. As it stands, the weapon skills and the offensive/defensive ones are mostly useless since the weapon skills are outperformed by the spell teaching ones and the others require too heavy of an investment to realistically be useful without gutting the build you apply them to.

[Draughir]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

It’s probably the source of most of the game’s flaws honestly. I don’t understand why the skills that teach spells and all the weapon focuses and the like all share the same point investment when the ones that let you learn spells are so much better overall. If the weapon skills had their own unique abilities unique to the weapon type, then they’d be relevant. As it stands, the weapon skills and the offensive/defensive ones are mostly useless since the weapon skills are outperformed by the spell teaching ones and the others require too heavy of an investment to realistically be useful without gutting the build you apply them to.

That makes me sad. I know with every new RPG (depending on the scope) I've played, it usually takes at least through the first chapter to make sense of the system, and the rest of the game to master it, but it definitely seems like i have screwed this build. To the mirror! Let's see if i can salvage it.

[Fireaxxe]

You can actually make a case for taking the Ranged skill over the Warfare skill for rangers. The extra crit chance from Ranged will mean you do more damage overall and, in this game, crits are king.

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by Fireaxxe:

You can actually make a case for taking the Ranged skill over the Warfare skill for rangers. The extra crit chance from Ranged will mean you do more damage overall and, in this game, crits are king.

Nah. Even crits don't compare to what Warfare does. Effectively, Warfare does the same 5% as a point in Finesse or whatever you use, but also adds 1 additional Finesse per 20 you have (5%). So with 10 Warfare and 40 Finesse, the Warfare equivalent would be 10 for each point and an additional 1 per 2 Finesse for another 20, meaning that 10 points in Warfare with 40 in your attribute is like adding another 30 of that attribute. Whereas 10 points in Ranged is just 10% crit chance and 10 Finesse. 20 Fin > 10% crit, no contest.

The key thing is that Warfare is a multiplicative benefit while Ranged is additive. So each point in Ranged adds a 5% boost to base weapon damage just like the attribute does. Warfare's 5% is applied after that is calculated. This means that all the additive effects are multiplied as well. This leads to the absolute highest increase in damage you can get. Its good enough that should you find a ring with +2 Warfare, you'll basically never replace it as nothing else will compare other than another +2 Warfare ring, which would take over your other ring slot.

Its like the situation a lot of players make the mistake in. You have two weapons. One is level 14 and the other is level 16. The level 14 is a legendary with 20% crit chance and +2 attribute. The level 16 is just epic with no crit chance and +3 attribute. All other stats are either irrelevant or match (except base damage because of level). Which is better? The level 16. While you might lose 20% crit chance, the base weapon damage you'll get will cause the stats you have to have a massive impact on your overall damage. Typically, you'd be doing more damage when you don't crit and more damage when you would roll a crit for both weapons. Its only in that 20% gap where the higher crit chance weapon might overtake the other in damage, but it'd be by only a small amount and only 20% of the time. Don't let a high crit chance stop you from replacing an old weapon. And don't underestimate the power of Warfare.

Warfare is king. (for physical damage)

[Draughir]

And another thing...

What the fook does one use to heal Fane?!?

Seems that this is the only crpg i have played that uses the healing magic damages undead mechanic without a clear way to invert said healing magic. I tried decaying touch. I couldn't target him. I tried poison potion. That just poisoned him. What gives? Lol

[Chaoslink]

Poison. Poisoning him heals him. Note his poison resistance. 100% is immune. Anything above that heals. You can also use lifestealing effects.

[Draughir]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

Poison. Poisoning him heals him. Note his poison resistance. 100% is immune. Anything above that heals. You can also use lifestealing effects.

Oh, ok, I'll try that again. Last time I tried it though it looked like it was doing damage.

[Pyromus]

If Fane has any necro points, he will heal based on damage dealt to vitality. Necro based heals will also work on him, namely mosquito swarm and blood sucker.

Poison would probably work better for healing (though armor restoration > healing in 99% of scenarios) but if he's on or near fire, it's nice to have a backup way to heal, especially if you're on your first run. Since poison will catch the fire and likely be just a net loss of AP.

IF you don't want to invest anything in necro OR poison abilities, poison potions are only 1AP, won't ever spread fire, cheap to make or buy, and can usually heal to full HP from a single potion once you start combining them.

[Draughir]

Originally posted by Pyromus:

If Fane has any necro points, he will heal based on damage dealt to vitality. Necro based heals will also work on him, namely mosquito swarm and blood sucker.

Poison would probably work better for healing (though armor restoration > healing in 99% of scenarios) but if he's on or near fire, it's nice to have a backup way to heal, especially if you're on your first run. Since poison will catch the fire and likely be just a net loss of AP.

IF you don't want to invest anything in necro OR poison abilities, poison potions are only 1AP, won't ever spread fire, cheap to make or buy, and can usually heal to full HP from a single potion once you start combining them.

More insights! Thank you! I've been going nuts trying to figure this out. I expected to find that healing pots did dmg to him, but I been having a hella time trying to figure out the counter for it. I did recently notice that armor restoration was more helpful than I initially gave it credit for.

[Jerubius]

If I recall, decaying touch also sets a debuff that turns any healing a character receives to deal damage instead (so poison damages undead and normal healing effects damage non-undead). Also, you generally want to focus more on armor/magic armor effects over just healing in combat. Once someone's armor or magic armor goes down, they're liable to just get stun locked, so healing them back up won't really do much for them. This becomes a lot more true later in the game once you have armor amounts that don't get broken in a turn or two and enemies have a lot more abilities with random crowd control effects attached to them. Out of combat, use bedrolls, they're an infinite use full heal out of combat.

[Draughir]

Originally posted by Jerubius:

If I recall, decaying touch also sets a debuff that turns any healing a character receives to deal damage instead (so poison damages undead and normal healing effects damage non-undead). Also, you generally want to focus more on armor/magic armor effects over just healing in combat. Once someone's armor or magic armor goes down, they're liable to just get stun locked, so healing them back up won't really do much for them. This becomes a lot more true later in the game once you have armor amounts that don't get broken in a turn or two and enemies have a lot more abilities with random crowd control effects attached to them. Out of combat, use bedrolls, they're an infinite use full heal out of combat.

I generally only use heals when things get desperate, anyway. Usually when I stumble into a fight I'm not prepared for. LOL. Like those damned scarecrows a little north of Driftwood. Had to flee twice. Once when I initially encountered them, and once more afterwards when I walked by and agg'd them. That problem has since been taken care of. ;)
Wasn't a particularly easy fight though. Fane won the day with fire magic after the rest of the party had been feared, paralyzed or stunned.

Also, I reworked my points and dumped several points into warfare, then found the scoundrel skillbooks. I learned all the skills I could find, and the next battle I got into..I didn't even get the chance to use them. backlash, serrated blade, adrenaline, flurry. Battle over. Taking out many things in one turn. So. Effective. ;)