Fire resistance for full Pyro group/Advice on full caster group.

[Kharn Terrer]

So as the name suggests im interested in making a full pyro group. This leaves me in the situation that most of the field will be on fire so im wondering if using Demon is worth my while. I intend on using things like elemental affinity and such. Before anyone mentions it yes I realise their are bosses that are immune to fire mage thats why I intend to have a back up magic on everyone.
So im wondering if anyones tried something like this before? I normally play full physical groups for the cc. But im really interested in a change this time, im using:
1) Pyro-Geo
2) Pyro-Summoner
3) Pyro-Hydro (For heals not for damage)
4) Ranger for back up damage (Although I may ditch him and go something else I just miss my ranger if I dont take him).
Anyone got any suggestions on fire resistance or my 4th member of my group?

[Chaoslink]

Demon works, but aside from that there's only one good fire resistance set you can put together to reach 100% or more since it needs uniques. Still, just dumping fire runes in armor and looking for + fire resistance does the job. Though you might be overthinking it. You can get by without any resistances at all. You're a ranged build. You don't need to run through fire and with your high magic armor, it doesn't really matter.

As for the ranger, keep him. One physical damage dealer can handle themselves and you can build them as elemental. Elemental Ranger adds 20% of your base damage as element damage if an enemy is standing in the element. So enemies in fire will take fire damage. Looking for weapons with innate magic damage, open rune slots for a magic rune, crafted magic damage with poison or eternal artifacts and the Venom Coating buff (Firebrand too), you can deal more magic damage with each shot than physical, while simply adding a few skills differently than a standard archer.

On a note you didn't ask about, it kinda surprises me to see you say you play physical for CC as if physical boasts stronger CC capabilities. It can be easier to apply at times, but honestly you get more armor-piercing CC from Worm Tremor alone. It might not stop attacks entirely, but it locks down melee enemies and smoke does the rest. Then you just AoE them from the edges of the smoke while they can't do anything.

[Kharn Terrer]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

Demon works, but aside from that there's only one good fire resistance set you can put together to reach 100% or more since it needs uniques. Still, just dumping fire runes in armor and looking for + fire resistance does the job. Though you might be overthinking it. You can get by without any resistances at all. You're a ranged build. You don't need to run through fire and with your high magic armor, it doesn't really matter.

As for the ranger, keep him. One physical damage dealer can handle themselves and you can build them as elemental. Elemental Ranger adds 20% of your base damage as element damage if an enemy is standing in the element. So enemies in fire will take fire damage. Looking for weapons with innate magic damage, open rune slots for a magic rune, crafted magic damage with poison or eternal artifacts and the Venom Coating buff (Firebrand too), you can deal more magic damage with each shot than physical, while simply adding a few skills differently than a standard archer.

On a note you didn't ask about, it kinda surprises me to see you say you play physical for CC as if physical boasts stronger CC capabilities. It can be easier to apply at times, but honestly you get more armor-piercing CC from Worm Tremor alone. It might not stop attacks entirely, but it locks down melee enemies and smoke does the rest. Then you just AoE them from the edges of the smoke while they can't do anything.

Thanks for the advice, well the reason I was looking for the fire resistance is for 1 of my casters so she can stand in the fire get the minus to fire spells while also using glass cannon. Meaning I dont get damaged by it and I get 6 CP and all my fire spells are 1-2 action points.
That was my thinking in anycase.

Also on the subject of CC, I find warfare/poly has the best CC in the game, I recently finished tactician with an all melee/ranger group (1 knight, 1 Assassin, 1 ranger and 1 Cleric), I had 3 cc's on my knight (Battering ram, battle stomp and Chicken Claw) 3 CC's on my Assassin (All the above), 2 cc's on my Ranger ( Knock down arrow and chicken claw) and 2 cc's on my cleric which had warfare. So I realise you can do cc as casters but its not as safe, its possible to stun your own people with aero stun and if you block them with smoke you cant see either. Also for slows I find the good majority of melee have something like Tactical retreat, Cloak and dagger or Blitz so slows dont really help all that much. Only actual cripples are worth it imo (Which warfare has the best one with Hunstman). This doesnt even take into account source abilities, things like Overpower also knock down and once again with no chance of hurting your own group.

In saying that I am very open to learning and realise that DOS 2 is very open to many ways of doing stuff. I have never really played casters before always played melee/ranger. Thats why im playing caster this time.

[Chaoslink]

If that's the case, then yeah, you can easily do that. There's boots you dig up in act two, not too impressive, but they have 20% fire resistance. Keep them. Same goes for just about any unique armor item (no matter the equip requirement) that has either fire resistance or a rune slot, particularly rune slots on items that typically don't have them. These items can help you bump that fire resistance up. The character in question should be wielding a shield as well, granting you better protection from physical damage as well as higher magic armor for the fire damage you do take. Don't worry about HP healing, its kinda pointless, just focus on armor. I wouldn't Glass Cannon though. While it seems like it'd be powerful, you'd likely just get locked down and do nothing. You're better off just picking up Adrenaline and blasting that same AP worth of stuff in one turn. It'll serve you better.

As for being open, that's good. In reality Magic > Physical and Ranged > Melee. Pretty much in all respects these options are true. The best physical damage is either a Necromancer or an archer if you go for a weapon build. Melee... is actually pretty mediocre. Its strong and perfectly viable, but in a comparative sense its lackluster.

Originally posted by Kharn Terrer:

So I realise you can do cc as casters but its not as safe, its possible to stun your own people with aero stun and if you block them with smoke you cant see either.

While true, as I said above, melee are actually on the low end. In a "perfect" team you'd only have one melee and they'd act more like a support than a proper fighter. In that situation, you don't have anyone up close to shock/stun them to begin with. When you do run melee, Finesse builds are typically superior and have the better magic armor to handle the damage better. As I said for smoke, if you use AoE spells on the edge of the smoke, you can still hit them without seeing them. No direct line of sight necessary.

Originally posted by Kharn Terrer:

Also for slows I find the good majority of melee have something like Tactical retreat, Cloak and dagger or Blitz so slows dont really help all that much. Only actual cripples are worth it imo (Which warfare has the best one with Hunstman).

Yeah, slows definitely get countered by personal movement abilities. However, Cripple isn't the only "root" effect in the game and the best cripple actually goes to the Necromancer caster in the form of Grasp of the Starved, a massive AoE that deals significant physical damage and cripples. Worm Tremor (when paired with the Torturer talent) does the same thing with its Entangle status, but it hits in a wide area and it ignores armor. This allows you to "Cripple" an entire group of enemies even with your very first attack of the turn. Webs from Spider legs also do so, though the ability was heavily nerfed in the DE version, though it still ignores armor.

Originally posted by Kharn Terrer:

This doesnt even take into account source abilities, things like Overpower also knock down and once again with no chance of hurting your own group.

Again, the whole "no chance of friendly fire" thing is entirely controllable by you. Prioritize your casters, not your melee. Your melee need to stay back, attack enemies on the fringes of the field and ultimately not jump into the fray for the perfect Whirlwind because frankly your mages casting in that same exact spot will be more devastating to the enemy. Its all about Discipline. Don't worry about making your melee be effective, they simply can't compete with your ranged/mages anyway. Just make them be useful on the side while letting the heavy hitters take the focus.

If you try a mixed party, remember that. It'll help your team perform at their best. You like physical teams, clearly, so next time try mixing in a Necromage. They're weak at the start, many players go full summoning then respec in act two around level 12. A few Necro points and capped Warfare (since all physical damage builds cap Warfare) is all you need to be effective.

In saying that I am very open to learning and realise that DOS 2 is very open to many ways of doing stuff. I have never really played casters before always played melee/ranger. Thats why im playing caster this time. [/quote]

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by Kharn Terrer:

1) Pyro-Geo
2) Pyro-Summoner
3) Pyro-Hydro (For heals not for damage)
4) Ranger for back up damage (Although I may ditch him and go something else I just miss my ranger if I dont take him).
Anyone got any suggestions on fire resistance or my 4th member of my group?

So to address your team here directly, the ranger can go full elemental ranger, I can go over it more should you wish, though you can search Elemental Ranger on teh forum here for any one of a hundred of my posts describing the build. Its an amazing setup that can be full physical or True Hybrid at will. Fits all teams, hits like a truck and is quite simple to build.

Pyro/Geo is a classic, works fine. Not much to add.

Pyro/Summoner... Just remember that summoning should be all-in. If you want Pyro early on, get the Pyro points from gear, not investments. Get Summoning 10 as fast as possible. All Skilled Up and full investment gets you 10 by level 8. This gives you the best summoner performance. IN reality I'd recommend never making or considering a summoner a summoner/anything as a proper summoner has just 3 points to spend by endgame that isn't focused on summoning itself. For best results, focus summoning.

As for the Hydro... armor is more important than healing. You can honestly get all the healing you need from scrolls alone really. Health healing is the least priority. Get them armor restores first. If you do use heals, mix Living Armor into your builds so the healing also restores magic armor.

[Kharn Terrer]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

Originally posted by Kharn Terrer:

1) Pyro-Geo
2) Pyro-Summoner
3) Pyro-Hydro (For heals not for damage)
4) Ranger for back up damage (Although I may ditch him and go something else I just miss my ranger if I dont take him).
Anyone got any suggestions on fire resistance or my 4th member of my group?

So to address your team here directly, the ranger can go full elemental ranger, I can go over it more should you wish, though you can search Elemental Ranger on teh forum here for any one of a hundred of my posts describing the build. Its an amazing setup that can be full physical or True Hybrid at will. Fits all teams, hits like a truck and is quite simple to build.

Pyro/Geo is a classic, works fine. Not much to add.

Pyro/Summoner... Just remember that summoning should be all-in. If you want Pyro early on, get the Pyro points from gear, not investments. Get Summoning 10 as fast as possible. All Skilled Up and full investment gets you 10 by level 8. This gives you the best summoner performance. IN reality I'd recommend never making or considering a summoner a summoner/anything as a proper summoner has just 3 points to spend by endgame that isn't focused on summoning itself. For best results, focus summoning.

As for the Hydro... armor is more important than healing. You can honestly get all the healing you need from scrolls alone really. Health healing is the least priority. Get them armor restores first. If you do use heals, mix Living Armor into your builds so the healing also restores magic armor.

So you think Summoner and the Hydro arent worth having? If so what else would you recommend? More Pyro/Geo? The hydro character was going to take 2 points in Geo (probably from gear) to get things like Fortify but since I'd already have my pyro/geo I assumed I could just dump a point on her and get her to cast it since I intend to actually level Pyro and Geo.
Also I intended to spam Summoner points to get the champion asap. The fact that this char also had Pyro was more of when he had cast the Incarnate he'd then be able to cast spells afterwards. Probably from gear as you mentioned.

I normally play melee as I mentioned above, the Knight character I normally play is a Warfare/Necro build with 1 point in Poly for chicken claw and 1 point in Scoundrel for "The Pawn". So im no stranger to Necro, it does some nice damage as a whole and has some decent utility too.
Again with my assassin I normally take 2 points in necro for that too (The heal is a bonus) for things like Living on the edge and deathwish. As far as I am concerned every character should have at least 2 points in Necro but then I normally get them from gear. Cause the buffs/utility is amazing from it.

Also the reason I speak about friendly fire is because in a lot of cases its practically impossible to cc/snare every enemy and with so many gap closers sooner or later they are going to make it into melee with you. Then you have to start using your movement cds which starts to waste your AP.
Also since caster gear is mostly all magic armour and not armour you end up being cc'd by melee attacks quite often.
Where as with a melee group I can cc 3 enemies with 1 attack and 0 chance of it ever causing issues to the rest of my group. Then you have some cheesy stuff like Chicken Claw on an enemy then ruptured tendons for example.

Next we have the you dont need a line of sight, some caster abilities do need a line of sight sadly theirs no radius.
So im not saying you're wrong and melee damage maybe less then caster but I still maintain melee/ranger cc's are not only safer but more practical.

[Chaoslink]

I'm not necessarily saying Summoning isn't worth using. I'm just saying that having any sense of "focus" on Pyro alongside it isn't. You'll still take 2 points of Pyro, but you shouldn't have that directly invested until you have 10 Summoning and 1 point in every element. This is because you want to craft together a summoning book and one of the elements to get the elemental infusion spell. This lets you change the incarnate's element at will. Your Hydro healing can come from the incarnate in this fashion. Summon on fire for damage > Change to Hydro > heal > change to Pyro again.

Hydro, as in an investment into it? Nah. Maybe a point if you really want the spells without using scrolls, but your Summoner will be taking Hydro for the infusions anyway so give it to him.

Build two Pyro/Geo mages instead, but have one focus on Pyro mostly, going 10P/2G while the other goes 10G/2P. Ultimately whoever is going to get close should be an undead. The idea is that the undead can get in there as a Pyro mage focus while the other Geomage friendly fires him with poison, ideally hitting enemies as well. The Pyro undead uses Living Armor so the poison healing also restores magic armor. The Pyromage will get the fire resistance focus while the (ideally lizard) Geomage takes the Contamination set to become immune to their own poison effects. It works very well.

For Friendly fire, that's also what Medusa Head is for. Melee just locks things down by existing. Like I said, you still run a melee, but I typically make it a rogue build. Backlash is damage and mobility in one and this character can use it alongside Medusa to lock down anything nearby. For all other melee issues, Uncanny Dodge or the dodge aura (source orb in a neck slot) basically negates melee entirely. In my experience you need only about 1 physical armor for every 7 magic armor, possibly even less physical. Dodge basically removes the need for it and mages can just wield shields to cover their physical. When I mentioned magic > physical and Ranged > Melee, this breaks down a little more specifically into INT > FIN > STR. There's really no advantage to having high physical at the cost of so much magic armor. Physical armor is too easily negated by just using dodge/invisibility.

[Kharn Terrer]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

I'm not necessarily saying Summoning isn't worth using. I'm just saying that having any sense of "focus" on Pyro alongside it isn't. You'll still take 2 points of Pyro, but you shouldn't have that directly invested until you have 10 Summoning and 1 point in every element. This is because you want to craft together a summoning book and one of the elements to get the elemental infusion spell. This lets you change the incarnate's element at will. Your Hydro healing can come from the incarnate in this fashion. Summon on fire for damage > Change to Hydro > heal > change to Pyro again.

Hydro, as in an investment into it? Nah. Maybe a point if you really want the spells without using scrolls, but your Summoner will be taking Hydro for the infusions anyway so give it to him.

Build two Pyro/Geo mages instead, but have one focus on Pyro mostly, going 10P/2G while the other goes 10G/2P. Ultimately whoever is going to get close should be an undead. The idea is that the undead can get in there as a Pyro mage focus while the other Geomage friendly fires him with poison, ideally hitting enemies as well. The Pyro undead uses Living Armor so the poison healing also restores magic armor. The Pyromage will get the fire resistance focus while the (ideally lizard) Geomage takes the Contamination set to become immune to their own poison effects. It works very well.

For Friendly fire, that's also what Medusa Head is for. Melee just locks things down by existing. Like I said, you still run a melee, but I typically make it a rogue build. Backlash is damage and mobility in one and this character can use it alongside Medusa to lock down anything nearby. For all other melee issues, Uncanny Dodge or the dodge aura (source orb in a neck slot) basically negates melee entirely. In my experience you need only about 1 physical armor for every 7 magic armor, possibly even less physical. Dodge basically removes the need for it and mages can just wield shields to cover their physical. When I mentioned magic > physical and Ranged > Melee, this breaks down a little more specifically into INT > FIN > STR. There's really no advantage to having high physical at the cost of so much magic armor. Physical armor is too easily negated by just using dodge/invisibility.

Hmm that 2 pyro geo's with an undead sounds really fun I think I'll try that. I have Fane in my group so having an undead shouldnt be a problem (I have a human (Avatar) Sebile, Fane and Ifan atm. I really think im going to give that a go though it sounds like fun.
I just hope I can keep up with the healing. Thats one thing about melee groups you need a lot of healing so I guess I judge things by them.

Also yeah in my normal melee group I have 2 finese characters (Ranger+Assassin) for damage they can cause insane damage in 1 turn with adrenaline and flesh sac and have my knight for CC mostly but he can also do some relatively nasty damage with things like Overpower (gets rid of all their armour in 1 go). Then my Cleric heals and buffs everyone while doing a bit of necro damage at the same time (Mosquito swarm and Decaying touch do surprisingly large amounts of damage). But mostly hes there to cast Living on the edge/deathwish/grasp of the starved and of course the normal stuff like armour of frost, fortify and clear mind.
You'd be surprised at just how effective this group can be, it means I never have to waste AP on casting buffs and people cant get away from me once I start cause of the barrage of cc coupled with grasp of the starved.

In any case im going to try the 2 geo/pyro's see how that works should be fun to watch.

Although their is something thats bugging me with this build I have no one with any strength how the hell do you open all them crypts and pull the spear out of Withermoore? for example lol. Also normally have someone with high strength so he carries all my junk for me with this group everyones going to have 100 carry weight its going to be painful lol.

[Chaoslink]

In act one, you use STR boosting armor and buffs like Peace of Mind, Rested (bedrolls), and Dinners. IN act two, right click > Send to Vengeance becomes a main staple.

Though I'll admit I abuse the living hell out of Thievery in act one such that I leave the act with over 200k gold, 2-6 copies of every skillbook, 80+ res scrolls, the very best gear available, all the consumables and crafting mats you could eat/want and anything else money can buy. Though in my last few runs (well over two years ago by this point I'd assume) I'd always run two avatar characters so each one can do a companion romance later on, both of which were customs every time and always a Lizard + Prince with two others that differed. This meant that I had my main thief and 4 unused Origin characters I could recruit as Shadowblades and use for mass stealing runs.

By act two's end I usually had over 2 million gold, enough to never sell another item again and buy all the things I could want with raw gold til the end of the game. I got tired of inventory management by about 500 hours. I negated it for the next 400.

Edit: I'm off to bed, so this'll be my last comment for the night, but anything further you need I'll likely respond to in the morning. I check in here throughout the day if there's anything else you need. Hope it all works out for ya. I enjoyed my dual Pyro/Geo setup quite a bit. My undead had become fire immune and naturally poison immune and my lizard was well into poison healing with decent fire resistance (partially thanks to the lizard racial). They ended up both being more Geo focused, able to buff their physical armors well beyond 30k in the end game and friendly fire each other with poison which also restored lost magic armor because of Living Armor. Was a very fun run. Though my favorite (yet not efficient) combo was getting double criticals with that high physical armor when casting Reactive armor while shackled to an enemy. The spell would crit them and myself, effectively critting them twice and typically deleting them instantly.

[Kharn Terrer]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

In act one, you use STR boosting armor and buffs like Peace of Mind, Rested (bedrolls), and Dinners. IN act two, right click > Send to Vengeance becomes a main staple.

Though I'll admit I abuse the living hell out of Thievery in act one such that I leave the act with over 200k gold, 2-6 copies of every skillbook, 80+ res scrolls, the very best gear available, all the consumables and crafting mats you could eat/want and anything else money can buy. Though in my last few runs (well over two years ago by this point I'd assume) I'd always run two avatar characters so each one can do a companion romance later on, both of which were customs every time and always a Lizard + Prince with two others that differed. This meant that I had my main thief and 4 unused Origin characters I could recruit as Shadowblades and use for mass stealing runs.

By act two's end I usually had over 2 million gold, enough to never sell another item again and buy all the things I could want with raw gold til the end of the game. I got tired of inventory management by about 500 hours. I negated it for the next 400.

Hehe yeah I figured it would be "Send to Lady Vengeance" lol.

Also yeah thievery is pretty broken in this game lol, you can become insanely rich I normally have that in my group cause its just impossible to ignore but since you can just switch your talents in act 2 onwards all 4 of my group end up being thieves at some point. I havnt gone as far as making mercenary characters to steal although I know this is common in the community I've seen others mention it.

Which chars do you normally have in your group? I normally have Lohse, Beast, Ifan and an Elf avatar char. I dont really like The Red Prince if im honest hes arrogant and really up himself so I take great delight in killing him. Also Fane seemed annoying to start with but hes growing on me now, also I noticed how crazy his source ability is.

[Chaoslink]

I maybe lied about last comment a little.

Note, my dual mage, elementalist ranger and support rogue team works at all tiers of play. I usually start act two by rushing through the Paladin camp and killing The Harbinger, a level 15 boss, as a level 9 party. Then I head to Bloodmoon as a level 10 party and clear that. Being 5 levels down doesn’t stop me.

As for my team, it’s always a female lizard because I love their armor. Red too. Yeah, he’s a bit full of himself, but if you can handle him awhile, especially if you go a romantic route with him, he very much grows on you. Personally Fane worked opposite for me. I liked him at the start and hated him later.

Past my main and Red I’d typically take Sebille and Fane if I really needed undead or Beast. Beast’s quest was always lackluster, but he’s a good guy at heart. If not him, I’d take Lohse.

In 900 hours, I’ve never gotten Ifan past act two. He screams generic human and it bores the hell out of me. In a fantasy game with all sorts of fantasy races, why would I play human? There was a post that always made me laugh shortly after they released the Baldur’s Gate early access. Of all the horns, tails and other exotic and fancy races to build characters from, apparently all the most popular race/customization choices that were picked at the time generated a nearly identical character to the default male face from Fallout 4. Meanwhile, my characters are almost always as far from human as possible.

[Kharn Terrer]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

I maybe lied about last comment a little.

Note, my dual mage, elementalist ranger and support rogue team works at all tiers of play. I usually start act two by rushing through the Paladin camp and killing The Harbinger, a level 15 boss, as a level 9 party. Then I head to Bloodmoon as a level 10 party and clear that. Being 5 levels down doesn’t stop me.

As for my team, it’s always a female lizard because I love their armor. Red too. Yeah, he’s a bit full of himself, but if you can handle him awhile, especially if you go a romantic route with him, he very much grows on you. Personally Fane worked opposite for me. I liked him at the start and hated him later.

Past my main and Red I’d typically take Sebille and Fane if I really needed undead or Beast. Beast’s quest was always lackluster, but he’s a good guy at heart. If not him, I’d take Lohse.

In 900 hours, I’ve never gotten Ifan past act two. He screams generic human and it bores the hell out of me. In a fantasy game with all sorts of fantasy races, why would I play human? There was a post that always made me laugh shortly after they released the Baldur’s Gate early access. Of all the horns, tails and other exotic and fancy races to build characters from, apparently all the most popular race/customization choices that were picked at the time generated a nearly identical character to the default male face from Fallout 4. Meanwhile, my characters are almost always as far from human as possible.

I must admit I dont really care too much about race in DOS2, most racials aren't that impressive. The Dwarf Racial for example is a petrify and +1 thievery. So not that outstanding...
Then the lizards racial is a token amount of poison/fire res and a very short ranged fire attack for example.
So I take what I take cause I happen to like the stories, I like Ifan's story cause if you finish it you'll see hes kind of like a bad guy turned good. Being ex divine order and all and being the one that destroyed the Elves.
Then Lohse has a Demon inhabiting her. So not all human's are boring.
I have played Red Prince before but he just ends up annoying me so I swap him out for someone else.

[Chaoslink]

I mean, you’d be surprised how much some racials can improve play. The dwarf petrify can be a pretty useful ability to have if you build with a lot of close range magic. When crafting the dual-skill spellbooks there’s even more touch range magic you can use and having that CC is never bad. Their +sneak is worthless though.

Lizard persuasion makes for a great player character effect, the breath isn’t too amazing, but it is a cheap spell to add in some damage. The resistance might not seem like much, but if you’re actively trying to stack those resistances, 10% can go a decent way towards that, especially early on when resistance is pretty rare.

Human racials are probably the most lackluster to me. The crit boost is really nice, but aside from that Encourage is only useful early honestly, it just doesn’t scale well later and barter is not really much to write home about.

Elves get the best though. Flesh Sacrifice is a staple in some builds, almost making or breaking them entirely. Archers use it for free blood to pick up for elemental arrowheads, necromancer a use it for elemental affinity on demand and everything can make good use of extra AP. Only thing it prevents is building with shields since you’ll drop it due to the -CON effect. It’s too much of an investment of CON to maintain enough to keep your shield.

Undead can be interesting too. A duo lone wolf setup has what I refer to as the Suicide Pact strategy where you both just play dead and combat ends on the spot. Otherwise the healing from poison thing honestly makes you stronger if anything. Fane’s time warp is just broken too. Such an OP ability.

Ultimately it’s still better to play what appeals to you though. However the racials can still be a heavy consideration for some builds.

[Kharn Terrer]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

I mean, you’d be surprised how much some racials can improve play. The dwarf petrify can be a pretty useful ability to have if you build with a lot of close range magic. When crafting the dual-skill spellbooks there’s even more touch range magic you can use and having that CC is never bad. Their +sneak is worthless though.

Lizard persuasion makes for a great player character effect, the breath isn’t too amazing, but it is a cheap spell to add in some damage. The resistance might not seem like much, but if you’re actively trying to stack those resistances, 10% can go a decent way towards that, especially early on when resistance is pretty rare.

Human racials are probably the most lackluster to me. The crit boost is really nice, but aside from that Encourage is only useful early honestly, it just doesn’t scale well later and barter is not really much to write home about.

Elves get the best though. Flesh Sacrifice is a staple in some builds, almost making or breaking them entirely. Archers use it for free blood to pick up for elemental arrowheads, necromancer a use it for elemental affinity on demand and everything can make good use of extra AP. Only thing it prevents is building with shields since you’ll drop it due to the -CON effect. It’s too much of an investment of CON to maintain enough to keep your shield.

Undead can be interesting too. A duo lone wolf setup has what I refer to as the Suicide Pact strategy where you both just play dead and combat ends on the spot. Otherwise the healing from poison thing honestly makes you stronger if anything. Fane’s time warp is just broken too. Such an OP ability.

Ultimately it’s still better to play what appeals to you though. However the racials can still be a heavy consideration for some builds.

Yeah I must admit I always have an Elf in the group for the eat body parts and the flesh sac. It really does help, especially with a ranger ( I normally have an elf ranger in my melee group flesh sac get 1 extra Ap and blood on the ground so you can make bloody arrows meaning a flat dps increase and still have 4 ap).
But really most of the racials arent all that powerful. With a few notable exceptions.
The source racials arent the best either, I still havnt found a reason to use Blinding Squall for example and Petrifying touch I guess maybe better if you're a caster but for melee its utterly forgettable.
Then we have Lohse's madness ability that is full on RNG.
Ifan's wolf feels like it just costs too many AP to be worthwhile, and demonic stare feels like a joke the developers made.
Truly I feel like the only racial source abilities I even consider are Fane's Time Warp which I still maintain costs too little Source and Sebile's break the shackle which is incredibly useful.
So in the end its not like im saying all racial's suck but I just dont feel like it makes enough of a difference to change my build I completed Tactician with a 3 man melee 1 ranger group which is apparently under-powered so I doubt it makes that much of a difference.

Oh! and while we are on the subject, I really cant stand lone wolf, I really dont get the appeal. So you have 2 characters that are insanely powerful, yes but you're missing out on the idea of the game. I did try it but it just isnt fun to me. Its like congrats you have 1 person that can kill 4 people by himself in 1 turn.

[Chaoslink]

Yeah, I don't really like lone wolf either to be honest. Some players prefer not having as many characters to manage the inventory of and stuff like that, but its just not for me either. Ultimately I'd argue the four man setup is stronger anyway.

Flesh sacrifice is definitely the best though. My ranger build uses it for the extra AP specifically for the same reason you do, though I tend not to use blood. Instead, my ranger is always after my support rogue (who goes first) and that character will do whatever the mages need to set up elemental affinity for them, often giving the ranger an element to pick up. Then they end their turn casting haste on the ranger. The ranger then starts with 5AP and Flesh Sacrifices for a full 6. Then they pick up an element with Elemental Arrowheads and buff Venom Coating, basically the same buff but just for poison. Mixed with innate magic damage on the weapon, crafted poison and a magic rune as well as shooting enemies standing in an element with the Elemental Ranger talent, each shot by the ranger deals more magic damage than physical, while retaining that base physical damage. A "true hybrid" build. This character can the strip magic armor for mages, focus enemies with low physical and once both armors are stripped, their raw HP damage is like 2x what a ranger typically deals. Its a nasty build, especially in a mage heavy team. It does require setup to do however, including controlling your turn order.

My rogue's first turn is usually casting Searing daggers or a rain/Electric Discharge combo so my mages have elemental affinity set up for their first action, then he hastes the ranger. This means the mages can open up at full strength from the very beginning and the ranger has the extra AP needed to fully buff up. It might seem wasteful to have one character do nothing offensive, but the 3 AP they use to set up elemental affinity is returned twofold when the mages use their discounted spells. This makes your first-turn damage volume greater overall and early damage is worth more to you than later damage. When considering how effective my builds are, damage output is considered as 100% value turn one with every turn after having its damage value reduced by 20%. If your damage takes three turns to finally get going, your build is going to be pretty bad. The earlier you can get damage out, the better. This is simply because it means you can CC more enemies faster and lower the damage your team sustains, tipping the balance in your favor.