Sech Zapor cabin fight - how did you beat him in Tactician?

[northernwater]

I'm playing a custom Lone Wolf Shadowblade with Lohse also a Lone Wolf Enchantress. I'm level 7. Playing Tactician mode.

I've read all kinds of suggestions for placement, charm, potions, CC etc ... So I'm not interested in hearing suggestions. I would like to hear from someone who beat him with Lonewolf in Tactician and how did you do it? What level were you?

So who has done it?

So far in act 1 Lonewolf has been very powerful and I am able to win all fights. This one is different.

Sech is lvl 9, his crew of 3 are level 8. They use teleport, charmed, madness, stunned, knockdown and sleep very effectively. Yes they used all of them. The potions at this point in the game just are not enough to overcome the damage they have combined with their CC.

I can manage to charm or CC one, but the other still have too much power and peel away my armor in no time.

[Pidgin]

I pickpocket his soul jar and destroy it. He doesn't give xp killing him the normal way. Even killing him while he's talking, i feel cheated.

[northernwater]

Originally posted by Pidgin:

I pickpocket his soul jar and destroy it. He doesn't give xp killing him the normal way. Even killing him while he's talking, i feel cheated.

That worked! I had the soul jar already. So I started the fight. Sech summoned his crew of 3 level 8s. I survived his first assault. Broke his jar. He died. Me and Lohse then beat the other 3 with ease. Thanks!

[northernwater]

I would still like to hear from someone who beat him straight up.

[Chaoslink]

I've done it a few times. Not played too much of the DE compared to Classic (the version not the difficulty), so I've only fought him a few times. It was always the same strat as beating most fights though. Worm Tremor + Torturer to lock enemies down, teleport to bunch them up for it and, if needed, a smoke grenade to block their line of sight so they can't fight back.

I was always level 8 for the fight though. It was the last thing I did before ending the act.

Not to be condescending or anything, but I never felt it was all that hard a fight. Maybe a bit above average, but the same concept of big damage, CC and mitigation all play the same. Dodge and invisibility to evade hits, big damage to CC stuff fast and armor "piercing" CC to get control early.

Other than that, its just a standard fight. Hitting level 8 might help with some of the scaling issues though.

[northernwater]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

I've done it a few times. Not played too much of the DE compared to Classic (the version not the difficulty), so I've only fought him a few times. It was always the same strat as beating most fights though. Worm Tremor + Torturer to lock enemies down, teleport to bunch them up for it and, if needed, a smoke grenade to block their line of sight so they can't fight back.

I was always level 8 for the fight though. It was the last thing I did before ending the act.

Not to be condescending or anything, but I never felt it was all that hard a fight. Maybe a bit above average, but the same concept of big damage, CC and mitigation all play the same. Dodge and invisibility to evade hits, big damage to CC stuff fast and armor "piercing" CC to get control early.

Other than that, its just a standard fight. Hitting level 8 might help with some of the scaling issues though.

Just to be clear, you did this with Lonewolf. So it was 2 against 4 with Sech always being first?

I don't mind condescension if you don't mind skepticism. So how did you bunch them up, and entangle them all before they stripped your defenses and CCed you(which includes Charm, Sleep and Madness)? Two of his mates are on high ground on either side. It would take 3 teleports to bunch them up. They actively use fortify to prevent teleportation if you don't get it all don't in your first round. So 6 AP for teleports and 3 for worm tremor. 9 ap to obtain entangle, 50% earth damage and no poison damage and Sech has 20% earth resistance.

With Lonewolf it plays with Sech always first. He Backlashes you with heavy Damage. Then your two Lonewolfs are played back to back. That is 12+Maybe Adrenaline so maybe 14 AP to spend before they unleash a barrage from all 4 on you. If you smoke them all in one group them you can't target them either unless you engage in Melee.

Entangle does not prevent spell casting, and all 4 of your opponents are undead which means the poison from worm tremor would actually heal them. Using worm tremor does not seem very powerful against Sech and his crew. I'd be less skeptical if I saw a video of this master play.

BTW - You would have to wait till level 8 for both characters to have torturer and lonewolf.

[Chaoslink]

Worm Tremor is Earth damage on the initial hit, but the damage is pretty low all things considered. While poison does heal undead, healing doesn't really matter when they're at full health does it? Worm Tremor has 1 purpose and 1 purpose only, CC through armor.

Second, you're adding up AP without considering Elemental Affinity. You get talent points at level 1, 3 and 8. As long as you recruit your ally before hitting 3, you can select Lone Wolf at level 3 and Elemental Affinity at 8, and again, I always did this fight at 8.

You can most definitely hit enemies in smoke, just AoE the edges of the smoke with spells. Even small AoE can work if you get them in the edges of the smoke.

It'd be Teleport, Teleport (using a scroll) Worm Tremor (with preset EA). This gets three of them bunched up. Second character then goes full damage AoE on them using similar spells. Typically I gravitated towards Geo and always preferred mages, magic is just so much more powerful. Shouldn't be too hard to break armor with a full round of spells, ending with Throw Dust to blind them. A rooted, blinded enemy isn't much of a threat. With their armor gone, a flash grenade is all you need to lock them down each round while you focus their ally or hit them with stronger CC.

When enemy spellcasters are present, keep in mind that you can counter them hard with a large resistance potion of their main element. Just 1AP to reduce their damage by 75% plus any resistance you have from gear lingering about... that's a huge hit to their damage.

When you do get your turns, you can also just end the turn using invisibility to avoid taking damage. You should be able to use high ground to line of sight as well. My third talent here would likely be The Pawn for this exact situation. You step forward to get line of sight from the cliff, place them at the base of it, then back up. All free movement. Of course, it might require a little pre-positioning or using jump spells, but its not that hard to get positioned.

Its been quite awhile, so I don't remember too many details of how the fight plays out. I just remember that it felt like a mildly more difficult fight and didn't really think much of it beyond that.

[northernwater]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

Worm Tremor is Earth damage on the initial hit, but the damage is pretty low all things considered. While poison does heal undead, healing doesn't really matter when they're at full health does it? Worm Tremor has 1 purpose and 1 purpose only, CC through armor.

Second, you're adding up AP without considering Elemental Affinity. You get talent points at level 1, 3 and 8. As long as you recruit your ally before hitting 3, you can select Lone Wolf at level 3 and Elemental Affinity at 8, and again, I always did this fight at 8.

You can most definitely hit enemies in smoke, just AoE the edges of the smoke with spells. Even small AoE can work if you get them in the edges of the smoke.

It'd be Teleport, Teleport (using a scroll) Worm Tremor (with preset EA). This gets three of them bunched up. Second character then goes full damage AoE on them using similar spells. Typically I gravitated towards Geo and always preferred mages, magic is just so much more powerful. Shouldn't be too hard to break armor with a full round of spells, ending with Throw Dust to blind them. A rooted, blinded enemy isn't much of a threat. With their armor gone, a flash grenade is all you need to lock them down each round while you focus their ally or hit them with stronger CC.

When enemy spellcasters are present, keep in mind that you can counter them hard with a large resistance potion of their main element. Just 1AP to reduce their damage by 75% plus any resistance you have from gear lingering about... that's a huge hit to their damage.

When you do get your turns, you can also just end the turn using invisibility to avoid taking damage. You should be able to use high ground to line of sight as well. My third talent here would likely be The Pawn for this exact situation. You step forward to get line of sight from the cliff, place them at the base of it, then back up. All free movement. Of course, it might require a little pre-positioning or using jump spells, but its not that hard to get positioned.

Its been quite awhile, so I don't remember too many details of how the fight plays out. I just remember that it felt like a mildly more difficult fight and didn't really think much of it beyond that.

You did not answer if you personally did it with Lonewolf. Your explanation sounds more like how you imagine you would do it.

I don't believe it. Sorry. I would need to see a video. It sounds good on paper but I don't think it adds up in act 1. That early in the game how did you get 75% resistance potions? When did you take torturer and elemental affinity and pawn by level 8?. How many AP did you spend on obtaining your surface for your elemental affinity and keeping them smoked and taking your potions and doing damage? What did you do when you ran out of spells due to cooldown Two mages, one all in on Geomancy (all poison related spells useless), second mage all in on what had to be water or air for CC? Grenades are two AP and are hard to come by at that point in the game. Just as scrolls are. Just as are the best potions(except the healing elixir, lots of that around)

You don't worry about Physical damage in your Lonewolf play though? Some of the best CC is obtained after destruction of physical armor.

You also seem to underestimate their damage dealing and overestimate your damage dealing.

[baggybaf]

Originally posted by northernwater:

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

Worm Tremor is Earth damage on the initial hit, but the damage is pretty low all things considered. While poison does heal undead, healing doesn't really matter when they're at full health does it? Worm Tremor has 1 purpose and 1 purpose only, CC through armor.

Second, you're adding up AP without considering Elemental Affinity. You get talent points at level 1, 3 and 8. As long as you recruit your ally before hitting 3, you can select Lone Wolf at level 3 and Elemental Affinity at 8, and again, I always did this fight at 8.

You can most definitely hit enemies in smoke, just AoE the edges of the smoke with spells. Even small AoE can work if you get them in the edges of the smoke.

It'd be Teleport, Teleport (using a scroll) Worm Tremor (with preset EA). This gets three of them bunched up. Second character then goes full damage AoE on them using similar spells. Typically I gravitated towards Geo and always preferred mages, magic is just so much more powerful. Shouldn't be too hard to break armor with a full round of spells, ending with Throw Dust to blind them. A rooted, blinded enemy isn't much of a threat. With their armor gone, a flash grenade is all you need to lock them down each round while you focus their ally or hit them with stronger CC.

When enemy spellcasters are present, keep in mind that you can counter them hard with a large resistance potion of their main element. Just 1AP to reduce their damage by 75% plus any resistance you have from gear lingering about... that's a huge hit to their damage.

When you do get your turns, you can also just end the turn using invisibility to avoid taking damage. You should be able to use high ground to line of sight as well. My third talent here would likely be The Pawn for this exact situation. You step forward to get line of sight from the cliff, place them at the base of it, then back up. All free movement. Of course, it might require a little pre-positioning or using jump spells, but its not that hard to get positioned.

Its been quite awhile, so I don't remember too many details of how the fight plays out. I just remember that it felt like a mildly more difficult fight and didn't really think much of it beyond that.

You did not answer if you personally did it with Lonewolf. Your explanation sounds more like how you imagine you would do it.

I don't believe it. Sorry. I would need to see a video. It sounds good on paper but I don't think it adds up in act 1. That early in the game how did you get 75% resistance potions? When did you take torturer and elemental affinity and pawn by level 8?. How many AP did you spend on obtaining your surface for your elemental affinity and keeping them smoked and taking your potions and doing damage? What did you do when you ran out of spells due to cooldown Two mages, one all in on Geomancy (all poison related spells useless), second mage all in on what had to be water or air for CC? Grenades are two AP and are hard to come by at that point in the game. Just as scrolls are. Just as are the best potions(except the healing elixir, lots of that around)

You don't worry about Physical damage in your Lonewolf play though? Some of the best CC is obtained after destruction of physical armor.

You also seem to underestimate their damage dealing and overestimate your damage dealing.

yet he is right but otherwise give me your build and I'll make a video to show you. I kill them solo no lone wolf (physical or magical) so a lone wolf duo is easy even with an imposed build

[northernwater]

I did find a good video doing it with Fane but the key was getting to lvl 9 and using Five Star Diner (not torturer and not elemental affinity) which is a very good idea. As I said I did it easily at lvl 7 but I killed Sech by using my first 3 AP to destroy his soul jar which kills Sech instantly.

[northernwater]

Originally posted by baggybaf:

yet he is right but otherwise give me your build and I'll make a video to show you. I kill them solo no lone wolf (physical or magical) so a lone wolf duo is easy even with an imposed build

Simply tell me how you would do it in detail at lvl 7 solo on Tactician no lonewolf. I described my build above.

[baggybaf]

there are several ways to win
It depends on whether you have magical or physical characters, your talents, etc.
the goal of the video is that I give you a technique without having to modify your build (or slightly).
for example it's good to tell you to use tremor worms: very effective in this fight but if you don't have torturer and two points in geo it's useless.

but i can do with Lone Wolf Shadowblade and Lone Wolf Enchantress
to show you I do the fight without pre buff, potions and scrolls.
I will use the Lohse capaity if I can

[northernwater]

Originally posted by baggybaf:

there are several ways to win
It depends on whether you have magical or physical characters, your talents, etc.
the goal of the video is that I give you a technique without having to modify your build (or slightly).
for example it's good to tell you to use tremor worms: very effective in this fight but if you don't have torturer and two points in geo it's useless.

No doubt many ways. I still have not heard one.

Lvl 7 lonewolves only have 1 additional choice for talents. The second character has no additional choices. So what would you choose for that one talent between the two?

[Chaoslink]

Heh, grenades are hard to come by… I assume you’ll tell me gold is too eh? As I said, this is typically the last fight I do in the act. This means that sitting in my inventory is roughly the following:

-2-6 copies of every skillbook available at this level. Crafted ones included.
-250k gold
-80-120 res scrolls
-all the consumables you could want and the materials to craft them.
-the best gear money could buy.

Bear in mind, the only thing stopping you from having things like huge healing potions or large resistance potions is your effort in crafting them. You can easily acquire a stash of the small potions. Just craft them together for the mediums and two mediums for a large. Same for healing potions. You can be sitting on potions that overheal you so much that the Living Armor talent would fully restore your magic armor in the first act. Its a bit of a waste, but it’s doable.

How do I get all of that? A bit of thievery abuse. Even if I’m going lone wolf, I’d still acquire a glove and belt with +1 thievery on them and temporarily recruit all the origin characters as shadowblades, pump thievery and go on repeat stealing sprees from every vendor I can. I typically avoid solving quests that kill NPCs worth stealing from, so Griff doesn’t die, nor Stingtail.

I do such a spree so I don’t have to worry about inventory management for most of the following act. If you do it again near the end of act two, you’ll have multiple million gold.

[Chaoslink]

As for why it sounds like I’m imagining it, that’s because the only time I did it was in a co-op game as lone wolf. I typically don’t play lone wolf solo, it was broken OP in the Classic version so I developed an aversion to it and would only play it in co-op. I did this run back when the DE version was relatively new, after the last gift bag dropped. So it wasn’t recent. Years ago. I’d challenge you to remember the specifics of a combat in a game you did over two years ago that wasn’t very eventful.

[northernwater]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

Same for healing potions. You can be sitting on potions that overheal you so much that the Living Armor talent would fully restore your magic armor in the first act. Its a bit of a waste, but it’s doable.

Torturer, Elemental Affinity, Living Armour, Lone Wolf ... choices, choices

You should of made videos. Think of all the Youtube money you would have had.