Is Heart of Steel worth it?

[Lampros]

I am really underwhelmed, and I regret buying this skill after I realized that it costs 2 APs to activate. I know it does over-time armor regeneration, but the initial armor buff is less than Fortify, and it also be less than Bone Cage depending upon the circumstances. The regen itself is also less than what you can get with Geomancy 2 Mend Metal. Am I missing something?

[Martialis]

No, you are not missing anything. I think they just added it to the poly skill list to give a bit more variety, and make it so as a warrior/poly, for instance you wouldn't HAVE to take geo if you didn't want to. I personally am not a big fan of any of the polymorph skills, so I have tended to avoid that skill line with whatever group I am running.

[Ryzor]

Yeah it takes too long to have any considerable effect. Just take tentacle lash instead and kill your enemy before he can do anything to you!

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Martialis:

No, you are not missing anything. I think they just added it to the poly skill list to give a bit more variety, and make it so as a warrior/poly, for instance you wouldn't HAVE to take geo if you didn't want to. I personally am not a big fan of any of the polymorph skills, so I have tended to avoid that skill line with whatever group I am running.

I suspected as much. Also, I guess since there are two schools that increase or regenerate Magic Armor (Hydrosophy and Necromancy), it made sense symmetry's sake to have two schools that increase or regenerate Physical Armor. Either way, Geomancy 1 (or even 2) is not a heavy investment, and I'd dip down there on almost every character.

Polymorph has some interesting Skills though. I often go to 3 for Skin Graft on a lot of my melees.

Originally posted by Overlord Ryzor:

Yeah it takes too long to have any considerable effect. Just take tentacle lash instead and kill your enemy before he can do anything to you!

Yes, best defense is offense. But you do need SOME defense though! ;)

[Chaoslink]

Probably the best skill in poly is spider legs. It gives you an AoE root that ignores armor. Add in a smoke grenade and you have yourself an armor ignoring AoE CC effect that stops enemy movement and block all line of sight. Its essentially a hard CC and you can hit multiple targets.

Otherwise... Tenticle lash is alright. Medusa is okay if you get the effects off. Otherwise, its best redeeming ability is skin graft. If you're doing a monster combo to use 28 or so AP in one go, having the ability to reset cooldowns midway is a useful thing. And yes, you can combo about 28 AP in one stretch.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

Probably the best skill in poly is spider legs. It gives you an AoE root that ignores armor. Add in a smoke grenade and you have yourself an armor ignoring AoE CC effect that stops enemy movement and block all line of sight. Its essentially a hard CC and you can hit multiple targets.

Otherwise... Tenticle lash is alright. Medusa is okay if you get the effects off. Otherwise, its best redeeming ability is skin graft. If you're doing a monster combo to use 28 or so AP in one go, having the ability to reset cooldowns midway is a useful thing. And yes, you can combo about 28 AP in one stretch.

Two questions:

First, doesn't Spider Legs also incur friendly fire issues as well? I read somewhere to that effect, and that's why I have avoided it. But if that report is inaccurate or out-dated, then I will definitely use it.

Second, how the heck can you get 28 APs?!

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Two questions:

First, doesn't Spider Legs also incur friendly fire issues as well? I read somewhere to that effect, and that's why I have avoided it. But if that report is inaccurate or out-dated, then I will definitely use it.

Second, how the heck can you get 28 APs?!

It does friendly fire, but you're immune if you have the ability active.

As for AP... Its complicated. The easiest way is a Glass cannon method. Basically, Glass cannon offers 6 AP per turn. So you initiate a combat with your glass cannon out of combat. You must have Fane, and he can't be the Glass Cannon. Fane delays his turn in the combat first turn. Your GC must have HIGH initiative, enough to beat even the enemy initiative. They sneak in after all characters have had their turn save for Fane.

Thats the setup. So it works by starting with an ability from stealth, so lets say you use a high AP ability because stealth makes it free. So lets say its a 3AP. Then Fane pops his time warp on you, and maybe a buff like peace of mind or whatever. Then you get 6 AP to use. With executioner, you can net 2 bonus AP per turn. Since you went last in the turn order and should go first in the next rotation, and have Fane's time warp active, you'll have 3 turns back to back. Thats 18AP, plus as much as 6 more through executioner (which is easier to achieve due to damage your other characters did on their turn). Thats 24, plus the free 3 from stealth.

So now you 've used 27. If you're an elf, you can add one more AP after using some on any turn (best early on for the damage boost). So 28. Then, on the last turn you use an attack, then adrenaline, (you can skin graft now for all CDs reset then adrenaline again to cancel the AP to use it). Adrenaline adds 2 more AP. So now you've gotten 30 [technically 32 with SG], assuming you got an executioner proc each turn. (this method is not considering lone wolf doing the same strat) Just don't do the adrenaline strat until the 3rd turn else you get the debuff early.

You are going to only get 2AP on your next turn due to adrenaline debuff x2, and being Glass Cannon, you'll be one big target assuming anything lived long enough to hit you. Its doable without GC, but you require the elf racial turn one and lose one AP overall from that, as well as a haste buff alongside Fane's. Still, its a monster combo.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

Originally posted by Lampros:

Two questions:

First, doesn't Spider Legs also incur friendly fire issues as well? I read somewhere to that effect, and that's why I have avoided it. But if that report is inaccurate or out-dated, then I will definitely use it.

Second, how the heck can you get 28 APs?!

It does friendly fire, but you're immune if you have the ability active.

As for AP... Its complicated. The easiest way is a Glass cannon method. Basically, Glass cannon offers 6 AP per turn. So you initiate a combat with your glass cannon out of combat. You must have Fane, and he can't be the Glass Cannon. Fane delays his turn in the combat first turn. Your GC must have HIGH initiative, enough to beat even the enemy initiative. They sneak in after all characters have had their turn save for Fane.

Thats the setup. So it works by starting with an ability from stealth, so lets say you use a high AP ability because stealth makes it free. So lets say its a 3AP. Then Fane pops his time warp on you, and maybe a buff like peace of mind or whatever. Then you get 6 AP to use. With executioner, you can net 2 bonus AP per turn. Since you went last in the turn order and should go first in the next rotation, and have Fane's time warp active, you'll have 3 turns back to back. Thats 18AP, plus as much as 6 more through executioner (which is easier to achieve due to damage your other characters did on their turn). Thats 24, plus the free 3 from stealth.

So now you 've used 27. If you're an elf, you can add one more AP after using some on any turn (best early on for the damage boost). So 28. Then, on the last turn you use an attack, then adrenaline, (you can skin graft now for all CDs reset then adrenaline again to cancel the AP to use it). Adrenaline adds 2 more AP. So now you've gotten 30, assuming you got an executioner proc each turn. (this method is not considering lone wolf doing the same strat)

You are going to only get 2AP on your next turn due to adrenaline debuff x2, and being Glass Cannon, you'll be one big target assuming anything lived long enough to hit you. Its doable without GC, but you require the elf racial turn one and lose one AP overall from that, as well as a haste buff alongside Fane's. Still, its a monster combo.

Ah, ok; I don't want to use Fane or Lone Wolf/Glass Cannon talents - and I find the Pawn superior for my tactics than Executioner.

So if you take none of those, what's the max AP you can get?

I guess with the Elf racial, someone buffing you once with Haste, Skin Graft, and two Adrenaline use - about 10?

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Ah, ok; I don't want to use Fane or Lone Wolf/Glass Cannon talents - and I find the Pawn superior for my tactics than Executioner.

So if you take none of those, what's the max AP you can get?

I guess with the Elf racial, someone buffing you once with Haste, Skin Graft, and two Adrenaline use - about 10?

By using the stealth tactic for a free attack and still doing the delay/high initiative combo, two hasted turns side by side, you get 10+free attack right there. Elf and adrenaline (skin graft is probably not needed here) adds another 3, so with a 3AP free attack its something like 16 in one go. Not as strong, but less recovery needed too. Not having GC makes you less vulnerable too.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

Originally posted by Lampros:

Ah, ok; I don't want to use Fane or Lone Wolf/Glass Cannon talents - and I find the Pawn superior for my tactics than Executioner.

So if you take none of those, what's the max AP you can get?

I guess with the Elf racial, someone buffing you once with Haste, Skin Graft, and two Adrenaline use - about 10?

By using the stealth tactic for a free attack and still doing the delay/high initiative combo, two hasted turns side by side, you get 10+free attack right there. Elf and adrenaline (skin graft is probably not needed here) adds another 3, so with a 3AP free attack its something like 16 in one go. Not as strong, but less recovery needed too. Not having GC makes you less vulnerable too.

I see. I just tried it on Grog, and it seems to work. That fight is a ♥♥♥♥♥ though overall - at least at level 13. It took forever, as I only had 1 ranged and 1 character capable of doing fire damage.

And to add insult to injury, I didn't even get the credit for the quest - which may have been my main issue that prompted this thread. The quest triggers have such specific, irrevocable steps that it's so easy to miss them and miss quest XP. God-freaking-damn it.

[w.f.schepel]

Originally posted by Martialis:

No, you are not missing anything. I think they just added it to the poly skill list to give a bit more variety, and make it so as a warrior/poly, for instance you wouldn't HAVE to take geo if you didn't want to. I personally am not a big fan of any of the polymorph skills, so I have tended to avoid that skill line with whatever group I am running.

The single most powerful spell in the game is poly: poc, poc, poc! The spell that allows you to hit with a tail is also very useful. Polymorph is very useful for warriors and generally something I always spend a few points on because you just can't have enough chickens running around. Especially when tendons have been cut.

[The Tempted Man]

The entire physical/magical armor seems pretty useless imho, since 90% of the times enemies one shot your entire bar, regardless how much points you have in it.

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by The Tempted Man:

The entire physical/magical armor seems pretty useless imho, since 90% of the times enemies one shot your entire bar, regardless how much points you have in it.

I mean, even on tactician I rarely have my armor broken through. Sounds like you're just doing something wrong...

[Lampros]

Originally posted by The Tempted Man:

The entire physical/magical armor seems pretty useless imho, since 90% of the times enemies one shot your entire bar, regardless how much points you have in it.

Not my experience at all - and playing Tactician as a first time player.

[droggen]

It seems like a life saver to me I took it as a Assassin/mage and I get some distance from my enemies when I need to and just buff my armor back up and pop a potion to restore magic armor I guess depending on your play style it can be good or bad.