Do you like the armor system?

[Fast]

Yes or No?

Explain why!!

Personally i dont, i find it intrusive and it forces cookie cutter builds, cheese and in some cases boring fights, using magic feels weak in comparison to physical damage. All tactician mode does is increase the number of enemies and/or increase the armors massively. Its not so much difficulty increase as it is arbitrary - more difficulty = more armor/hp = artificial difficulty.

It also takes away from the fact there are so many cool spells/elements/combos etc and i barely see any of it except from the enemy side, because put time into oth magic and physical damage is just not worth it.

Sad :(

[Wyrtt]

it fixes cheese actually. First Dos was awful. We had to abandon game after 1st act because we were too OP by abusing teleportation, pyramids, barrels and cc skills. It was just boring and game had no place for melee characters.
This time around you actually have to balance CC and attacks. You have to soften enemies before oblitirating them. Isnt itsf fun that you now have at least TINY reason to have melee tank that opens up enemies for his comrades to abuse?

[Rain]

I like it a lot

[Soulmancer]

I like the system itself. But it's a bit too overkill on enemy NPC's. On classic NPC's often have 2-3x as much armour as me. I can't even fathum how bad it must be on tactian.

[Fast]

Originally posted by Wyrtt:

it fixes cheese actually. First Dos was awful. We had to abandon game after 1st act because we were too OP by abusing teleportation, pyramids, barrels and cc skills. It was just boring and game had no place for melee characters.
This time around you actually have to balance CC and attacks. You have to soften enemies before oblitirating them. Isnt itsf fun that you now have at least TINY reason to have melee tank that opens up enemies for his comrades to abuse?

you can still cheese with teleport/pyramids. The problem lies in the principle that you pick an armor demolish it then cripple/knock down rinse repeat. I use my cleric/enchanter to create summon/heal/surfaces (usually ice) and thats about it. Very little reason to do much else.

[Fast]

Originally posted by Soulmancer:

I like the system itself. But it's a bit too overkill on enemy NPC's. On classic NPC's often have 2-3x as much armour as me. I can't even fathum how bad it must be on tactian.

im on tactician in drifwood atm. The scarecrows are nigh impossible atm for me. It might be cheese time i dunno. But either way, i get every fight should feel tough, but its at the cost of gameplay mechanics to create artifical difficulty. my tank (prince) has 350hp 156 PA and 100 MA. A single attack from a scarecrow deleted the MA and another make him 1/2 hp.

Sure ill do the fight in some way , but i would like to have all the options and strats available. Not just. Teleport a guy here. nuke it, flee, rinse, repeat. You can even equip everyone with the escape talent and just abuse the game.

Also i think making enemies hit so hard was a dumb decision, as you cant plan very well, due to time/casting surfaces outside combat etc. And as soon as you enter combat you know that after your first guy goes enemy goes and very little you can do about it.

[Angarvin]

it's depends.

if there are two people playing with two characters and one of them goes for phys damage while the other for magical damage - they're gonna hate the armor system

if you want to play elemental archer and use different arrows - you gonna hate it since you mostly do phys damage while special arrow effects bounce off magical armor

if you want to invest heavy into dot damage - you gonna hate it since by the time you eliminated armor - enemy is half dead and thus dots feel weak

if you want to play a tank - it's awesome. no need to spend points on resistances and hope for good rolls on status checks - just stack armor like mad and you're good

Originally posted by Soulmancer:

I like the system itself. But it's a bit too overkill on enemy NPC's. On classic NPC's often have 2-3x as much armour as me. I can't even fathum how bad it must be on tactian.

on tactician enemies get +50% armor and +50% hp buffs

[󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡󠀡Troll]

No, it punishes those that go with split damage types in groups more so in the case of two lone wolves if on is physical and one is magical. It also punishes hybrid builds, taking a bit of spells and physical stuff. Worst part is that it completely stops you from picking up a CC aside from the kind of damage you focus on.

Tried to do a Honour Mode lone wolf duo a few times with split damage, but it just is not worth it. It's hard to get out the much needed CC and it effectively gives every enemy more health than if I just made both of them the same type.

One change I would like to see would be that you do a % damage to whatever armor you do not focus on. I.e 30-50% of the damage you do will damage the other armor, but never hit health. That would help quite a bit. Or just have the armors take a certain % of the total damage done, so that you will always do damage to them, just less if they got their armor, tho, that would require a CC rework... ~sigh~

If I could change one thing of this game, it would be the armor system. The rest is awesome.

[Fast]

Originally posted by Angarvin:

it's depends.

if there are two people playing with two characters and one of them goes for phys damage while the other for magical damage - they're gonna hate the armor system

if you want to play elemental archer and use different arrows - you gonna hate it since you mostly do phys damage while special arrow effects bounce off magical armor

if you want to invest heavy into dot damage - you gonna hate it since by the time you eliminated armor - enemy is half dead and thus dots feels weak

if you want to play a tank - it's awesome. no need to spend points on resistances and hope for good rolls on status checks - just stack armor like mad and you're good

see, this is my problem, cookie cutter stuff should not be the optimal way to play. Im not saying it should be a cake walk , i would just like to enjoy the games mechanics and systems at a higher difficulty.

[Fast]

Originally posted by TroII:

No, it punishes those that go with split damage types in groups more so in the case of two lone wolves if on is physical and one is magical. It also punishes hybrid builds, taking a bit of spells and physical stuff. Worst part is that it completely stops you from picking up a CC aside from the kind of damage you focus on.

Tried to do a Honour Mode lone wolf duo a few times with split damage, but it just is not worth it. It's hard to get out the much needed CC and it effectively gives every enemy more health than if I just made both of them the same type.

One change I would like to see would be that you do a % damage to whatever armor you do not focus on. I.e 30-50% of the damage you do will damage the other armor, but never hit health. That would help quite a bit. Or just have the armors take a certain % of the total damage done, so that you will always do damage to them, just less if they got their armor, tho, that would require a CC rework... ~sigh~

If I could change one thing of this game, it would be the armor system. The rest is awesome.

i agree here. My ranger cant use arrows, because he does physical and wasting them on magic armor im never going to deplete is worthless. My tank hits like a truck, is quite tanky and still a single hit take all his armor , a second hit takes 1/2 his hp.. my caster is all about surfaces and summons thats about it. my rogue has 166PA and 188 MA she does ridiculous damage (85-95 per hit), but even 6 AP into 500+ physical armor isnt enough. You then factor in the sometimes 2-3 or EVEN 4 attack PER enemy, PER turn. You got a insta dead party and a half wounded singular enemy.

[SqueekyRatter]

basically as it stands now for DOS2 - "friends don't let friends roll mages." All Ranger/tank party is the cat's meaow as physical armor and damage yield sthe best defense/offense ratio. There is just too much magic resistance that mages are just useless.

[Fast]

Originally posted by SqueekyRatter:

basically a sit stands for DOS2 - "friends don't let freinds roll mages." All Ranger/tank party is the cat's meaow as physical armor and damage yield sthe best defense/offense ratio. There is just too much magic resistance that mages are just useless.

yup.

[Helmet Hair]

Nope it ruins the game to be honest. My cleric guy feels totally pointless and so does my companion mage since I can't help my co-op partner except with the occasional heal. My co-op partner rolled a ranger and her companion is a melee fighter. She chips away at the enemy armor at an okay pace, but the main problem is that my two dudes are not helping - since I do a different kind of damage and CC won't work without the armor gone... And don't forget elemental immunity on certain things...

It's like we are fighting two HP bars on the same enemy.

[Angarvin]

it's like they realised they did something wrong in DOS1 with stacking resistances and it was too cheesy, so they made it much harder to do in DOS1:EE but then they introduce this armor system which is just complete immunity to status effects.

i guess if you don't try - you'll never know, but when i think that they had this in the works and testing and public access for 2 years it's kinda puzzling

[Fast]

Originally posted by tomme25:

Nope it ruins the game to be honest. My cleric guy feels totally pointless and so does my companion mage since I can't help my co-op partner except with the occasional heal. My co-op partner rolled a ranger and her companion is a melee fighter. She chips away at the enemy armor at an okay pace, but the main problem is that my two dudes are not helping - since I do a different kind of damage and CC won't work without the armor gone... Then don't forget elemental immunity on certain things...

It's like we are fighting two HP bars on the same enemy.

Exactly this. It would have been smarter to just increase enemy HP and have them have resistances to certain magics/physicals. Not 100% resistance to both.

[Malfeasance]

I don't have a problem with it. 60/40 split party, summoner/enchanter/tank/rogue, cleaning up fights no problem so far (level 6, almost 7) on classic.

Elevated positions are pretty OP and help out my magic users a ton. Next playthrough I'll definitely go ranger and can't imagine how broken that's going to be if I can get a height advantage.

Kinda disappointed with the enchanter so far but only because her CD's are very long and several abilities are arms length casts. I don't have the gold to buy better aerothurge skills :( Kinda the same with the summoner but the incarnate is pretty broken so I don't mind as much.

Originally posted by Angarvin:

it's like they realised they did something wrong in DOS1 with stacking resistances and it was too cheesy, so they made it much harder to do in DOS1:EE but then they introduce this armor system which is just complete immunity to status effects.

i guess if you don't try - you'll never know, but when i think that they had this in the works and testing and public access for 2 years it's kinda puzzling

Actually a decent point here, my end game OS1:EE tank was completely immune to and actually healed from 4 different elements in the end game.

Also armors don't make enemies immune to all CC, just hard CC. Soft CC effects like slow, chilled, shocked still go through.