Stealing still imposible

[MadZec]

Ok I know this trouble was in alpha, but still I find this troubles with stealing just too much Illogical.

1 No one sees me to steal thing as I do it in full stealth,
2 guards (who came from almost another end of camp) almost instant ask to search me.
3 If I refuse search entire camp attacks me??? I mean no matter how illogical is that guards ask to search me since no one seen me stealing, but I resist search and evreyone atack me like I am some state enemy number 1.
Why puting stuff like stealing in game if no matter how you do it guards instantly know who to search??
I mea if I go in stealth no one sees me and they still know it is me why put stealth at all??
In DOS if you were in stealth you go steal and if you are not seen you are clear, here no matter you are seen or not they still search you and all it has 0 logic. (not to mention whole camp instatly attacking someone for some totally irrelevant thing for them)
I really like the game and all compliments to Larian, but some things just have 0 logic and totally ruin enjoymant of the game

[Krinkle]

I like how searching for stealing got me a thread from 11 months ago where someone said "hey it's early access, they'll fix stealing by release" and obviously they did not fix anything.

I made a rogue and they put a don't-steal-me worthless item right at the beginning of the game and I"m a rogue so of course I tried to steal it and I spent two hours trying to figure out how and there was no point. Broken slave collars can't even prove who did the murder. There's not even a mystery here to solve. Leave the area and someone confesses. Everything is dumb!

I'm real mad at this!

[MadZec]

There really is no point trying to make proper rougelike character I was really hoping that I would do my playthrough with one either rouge or shadowblade like but at end I just changed at Inquisitor after few hours. I agree there is sorta way but really is stupid, I dunno why stealing is in game at all when it is such a choire to steal anything plus you are detected mile away. I mean what is function of vision cones if you are still seen if you walk out of em. It just really iritate me and I hate on saying this. I respect Larian but really this is not way how you put stealing in RPG I mean I need more to focus on stealing one spoon then on doing some quest.

What really makes me mad is that they said "we are reading it all" and still no reactions at all about stealing

[Gamebot]

Originally posted by MadZec:

I agree there is sorta way but really is stupid, I dunno why stealing is in game at all when it is such a choire to steal anything plus you are detected mile away. I mean what is function of vision cones if you are still seen if you walk out of em.

That's where you're wrong. Investing on sneaking makes the line of sight much shorter, and you won't be detected from miles away. It is important cause it lets you get away from 3~4 people's sights. Stealing becomes much easier after leveling up sneaking and thievery, so you don't need to do 'chores' like [4. using 3 characters for petty crimes], and it becomes the most lucrative civil ability after lv7~8. Especially when you play co-op, the thief is the one who really earns money and changes every member's skill set. As a side note, if the persuasion level is high enough, you can talk your way out without high sneaking. The system works fine, and it feels pretty legit to me. You just don't know how it works.

By the way, are you seriously saying that the stealing system sucks cause you couldn't steal something properly at lv.3~4? I can see the reason why devs don't make any response to that.

[Vorzov]

The stealing system is interesting and easy to get away with but it can punish you if you do not expect the ai coming after you. Steal something and just leave for a while :)

[Klim]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGjup1vWv-g

[ImHelping]

Everyone trying to justify the clown show that is attempting to steal is seriously missrepresenting skill design.

Do we generally need persuasion to pick locks, or multipl party memers assisting for it? Not really.

Do we generallyneed sneaking to succeed at persuasion? Or multiple party members to do it? Not really.

Balanced skills doing their job on their own, for the character tha invested in those skills.

Then you get to pickpocketing, and suddenly you need this whole Multi-faceted song and dance padding things out. Then even if you pull it off, you have to worry about "Well I may have zero evidence, but **** you anyways" unless you even further metagame by hiding out in fantasy austraila with a false identity until the heat blows over from stealing a vendor's pocket change.

It's a joke. It's like a petty GM that hates having to deal with the rogue doing anything beyond what their pre-written campaign wants them to do. Which is what us nerds with DnD pals go to video games to ESCAPE from, not get reminded of.

If you really wanted to PROPERLY gate robbing shops blind, plenty og games have the is the tried and true "Make it a basterd during the day, so come back during the night once your lockpicking is high enough to break in and steal it while they are sleeping" and tier loot from loose, cabinets, and a safe in the back you'll have to come back for later when your skills are higher.

Though, limitations and all that. So gotta take the shortcuts to put fake gates on stealing.

[CoderZ]

Yea I agree with gamebot.On another note if you scroilover your thievery it will tell how much money you can steal and at like lvl 2 or 3 thievery you getto still up to 1.1k gold.And I got lvl 3 theivery at like ll 3 or 4 you justneed toget all skilled up.

[MadZec]

I just wanted to go "lone wolf run" not to have entire party needed with multiple skills learned for stealing one raged shirt it has zero logic. To have persuasion + pickpocket + sneaking...... where is then place on that character for any combat skills???
Setup for stealin, it is dooable but it is totally totally ilogicall It has zero logic that I need to raise peruasion to steal something.

[CoderZ]

You have to understand you'regoing lone wolf lol.You should know that it will be very difficult and that you would lack some of the perks of having a party they're not just gonna makelone wolf easy.But yea youre best bet is stealing gold.

[Poop Smoocher]

It makes sense, guards notice an item has been stolen and they search everyone in the area.

Key is to not have the item on you when they search you :)

[ImHelping]

Originally posted by CoderZ:

You have to understand you'regoing lone wolf lol.You should know that it will be very difficult and that you would lack some of the perks of having a party they're not just gonna makelone wolf easy.But yea youre best bet is stealing gold.

Uh, Lone wolf is the talent to make going it with less people EASIER, while more people in the party is punishing. So bringing up lone wolf as some kind of flaw is a drastic missunderstanding of the trait.

But even with that obvious factoid, it still does not change the whole "Pickpocketing! The only civil skill that needs hand holding and cross skill coverage" antics.

Originally posted by Poop Smoocher:

It makes sense, guards notice an item has been stolen and they search everyone in the area.

Key is to not have the item on you when they search you :)

As people have mentioned, even if you do that NPCs can and will just go "I have no evidence you stole anything, but I'm going to be mad anyways!"

So even more padding if you want to deal with the fact TWO skills, pickpocket + persuasion, and them metagaming to get rid of the physical evidence, are still not enough.

I've seen people unironically post 7 step lists of how they manage to steal stuff. Which only further highlights the problem, rather than defend it like they seem to be convinced they are doing.

[CoderZ]

Originally posted by ImHelping:

Originally posted by CoderZ:

You have to understand you'regoing lone wolf lol.You should know that it will be very difficult and that you would lack some of the perks of having a party they're not just gonna makelone wolf easy.But yea youre best bet is stealing gold.

Uh, Lone wolf is the talent to make going it with less people EASIER. So bringing up lone wolf as some kind of flaw is a drastic missunderstanding of the game.

But even with that obvious factoid, it still does not change the whole "Pickpocketing! The only civil skill that needs hand holding and cross skill coverage" antics.

You're correct in the fact that lone wolf is supposed to make it easier to play solo.But that dosen't mean that it's supposed to give you all the perks of having multiple people.As lone wolf you should expect thing sot be much harder wether you have the talent or not.The talent itself is just there to help you in some aspects of the game at all.You also have to understand thievery is a multi purpose ability VS most of the other ones as they only do one thing.Thievery improves your lock picking and pick pocketing.So of course it's going to be more difficult considering what it is and is capable of.It's called game balancing.Stop trying to find ways to make the game easier and instead actually play the game how it's supposed to be played and strategize.I've seen lone wolf gameplays of peoplethat steal alot on DOS 2.And they completed the act just fine.Of course they did things differently but they stoll specced into thievery and used it alot.Insteadof complaining ina discussions maybe you should instead be asking for advise from people on how to make it easier and listen to that advice instead of arguing,

[ImHelping]

Originally posted by CoderZ:

Originally posted by ImHelping:

Uh, Lone wolf is the talent to make going it with less people EASIER. So bringing up lone wolf as some kind of flaw is a drastic missunderstanding of the game.

But even with that obvious factoid, it still does not change the whole "Pickpocketing! The only civil skill that needs hand holding and cross skill coverage" antics.

You're correct in the fact that lone wolf is supposed to make it easier to play solo.But that dosen't mean that it's supposed to give you all the perks of having multiple people.As lone wolf you should expect thing sot be much harder wether you have the talent or not.The talent itself is just there to help you in some aspects of the game at all.You also have to understand thievery is a multi purpose ability VS most of the other ones as they only do one thing.Thievery improves your lock picking and pick pocketing.So of course it's going to be more difficult considering what it is and is capable of.It's called game balancing.Stop trying to find ways to make the game easier and instead actually play the game how it's supposed to be played and strategize.I've seen lone wolf gameplays of peoplethat steal alot on DOS 2.And they completed the act just fine.Of course they did things differently but they stoll specced into thievery and used it alot.Insteadof complaining ina discussions maybe you should instead be asking for advise from people on how to make it easier and listen to that advice instead of arguing,

Your refusal to use line breaks, doesn't mask the fact that still remains obvious.

Only pick pocketing requires a multi skill and/or multi person song and dance to use on a regular basis.

You don't get that problem with other skills doing their job right on their own. The it's the awkward exception, not a beautiful snowflake.

Just screaming "Nuh uh, it's GREAT!" over and over doesn't change that. It doesn't even change the whole "rewards are too high if you succeed!" thing you are claiming is the problem, because if you fill out the DMV list right you still get the payoff.

If the REAL concern was "OP loot", then the loot would have been scaled down, rather than making NPCs more psychic than the infamous Elder scrolls guards getting tip offs from chickens on the crime scene.

And that's just sad. When freaking elder scrolls has more polished and less outlandish thievery than your game.

[CoderZ]

You're still not getting it.Maybe I need to use less words and just dumb it down.LONE WOLF is ment to be challenging.This is a team game for the most part lots of things get easier with a team.Lone wolf removes the team aspect of the game.Therefore it's much harder.

They didn't make lone wolf so you ould gain all the benefits of having a perty.If that's the case a party wouldn't exist.Knowing this is a team based game and not having a team means that you lose out on the aspects that require more people IE Pickpocketing.

[David Davidson]

I've stolen so much so far, pickpocketing, taking it when backs are turned etc.
Have one person who is trained as a scoundrel, my party is a; Wayfarer (aero, not geo; Sebylle; high persuasion, she can talk her way out of it), Red prince as a nightblade (he does the stealing) and then another character (usually Loshe; Cleric-Battlemage sort) to get the mark's attention by talking to them and having the red prince 'unchained' from the party to do the stealing. Sebille can always talk her way out of it, but if you don't have high persuasion just drop what you stole; let them search you then pick it up again. Simples.

The only thing I don't like is the fact that you can only pickpocket once. But I suppose that is a balance issue or I'd have free gear and skills for most of the game.

PS: If someone is talking to your mark, they will only realise they were robbed after you cease talking to them. You could always have your thief unlink from party and walk a distance, then have your distracting character stop talking. That might do too. Talking them down has never failed me though. If you stole skillbooks, reading them uses them up, so they won't be found even in a search.