(Spoilers) Unanswered story questions: tainted fish, Malady's deal, Kemm, etc

[Robotlev]

Just finished my second playthrough but I still have some questions that I couldn't find answers for. If I've missed something, maybe someone can help me out?

1. What's the deal with all the void-tainted fish? Why is there so much of it dead on the shore? Is it just because of all the killed voidwoken poisoning the water? The Doctor buys tainted fish. Why? What does he use it for? Do dwarves sell him fish just to make money or is there another motive? Is there a particular group of dwarves who deal with tainted fish and the Doctor or is it just random fishermen?
2. What was the deal Malady made with the Doctor? I haven't found any info about it except that she want to get out of the deal. Is she helping godwoken to ask for a favor about this deal when they become divine?
3. Kemm is undead sworn to the God King. Was real Kemm killed and replaced with a fake like Dallis? (His wife says he's changed, like Nebora talks about Dallis) If so, why does he care about the Divine Order? (He says he's liberated the Order instead of treating them like tools or something) Was he always undead? Or did he die and swear loyalty to the God King to come back as undead? BTW, I consumed Kemm's spirit but in the final battle Braccus summoned Kemm back. I don't think that's how it's supposed to work.
4. Why are the voidwoken attracted to Source? Magisters purge source to repair the veil but what do voidwoken get from it? Do they just feed on Source or something?
5. When did Arhu become a lord? I think he was just Arhu in the first game.
6. What's this game's story about? If you think about it, this game is kind of depressing. The voidwoken, God King and Black Ring are awful. The Magisters have a decent goal but they purge people of their souls, create Gheists and Shriekers and they even resurrected Braccus Rex. The gods are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and Lucian is morally questionable at best. The demons are almost pure evil and Malady kills thousands without a second thought. Lohar's dwarves are bandits, Justinia's dwarves are manipulated by Black Ring like the Divine Order Paladins. The Lizards are planning to kill the elves, the elves are planning to kill everyone else. It seems that everyone in this game is awful. You go through 100 hours of all that, fighting almost every faction, just to get a happy ending where everyone unites and is happy. Somehow. What are we supposed to learn from all this? What's the core theme of the game? Is there one? The story is entertaining but I don't see what it's trying to say aside from "don't be awful".

[Chaoslink]

4. There’s no actual proof they are really. All examples you see could be happenstance or other reasons, otherwise it’s a ruse the magisters use to turn the people against sourcerers so they can justify rounding them up.

5. There’s like 1000 years difference or something between this and the first one. Lots can happen.

6. There’s a lot of grey area. I’d say the message overall is that nothing is ever good, it’s just a matter of perspective. There’s a really good D&D video I could link you for a great example of this, though the story is about 25 minutes.

2. You never learn. Supposed to be part of the cancelled sequel. Might never learn.

1. You pretty much nailed it, though what the doctor wants with them who’s to know.

[Robotlev]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

4. There’s no actual proof they are really. All examples you see could be happenstance or other reasons, otherwise it’s a ruse the magisters use to turn the people against sourcerers so they can justify rounding them up.

5. There’s like 1000 years difference or something between this and the first one. Lots can happen.

6. There’s a lot of grey area. I’d say the message overall is that nothing is ever good, it’s just a matter of perspective. There’s a really good D&D video I could link you for a great example of this, though the story is about 25 minutes.

2. You never learn. Supposed to be part of the cancelled sequel. Might never learn.

1. You pretty much nailed it, though what the doctor wants with them who’s to know.

Thanks for the reply!
4. It's portrayed as a pretty strict worldbuilding rule, so I doubt it's happenstance. Also I find it hard to believe that magisters can orchestrate it to blame sorcerers, that would be a lot of influence over their enemies imo. It sucks that there's no clear answer because I see it as an important plot point that should be explained.
5. Yeah, I guess, it's not very important anyway, I was just curious :)
6. I can see that. I just find it wierd that by the end almost all major factions become your enemies. There's a lot of black in that grey or maybe I'm wrong. Would love to see that video.
2. A shame. Malady has a lot of potential that wasn't realized, I feel.
1. I seems like a subplot with no resolution. You see all the fish in act 2, it leads to the Doctor in act 4 and... nothing. It needed some kind of ending or an explanation to be satisfying.

[Janthis]

You're not wrong about the world sucking, almost everyone you meet is an a-hole, an idiot or a psycho, and that includes the "good guys". At one point around act 2, I was wondering who I'm actually fighting for and what am I trying to save. And the "best" ending seems to be the same as not doing anything at all. That's a an area where they kinda dropped the ball, in my opinion. Supposedly the game was supposed to be longer and the ending was rushed, but we'll never know.

[Chaoslink]

1. That’s the thing, the climax of that subplot you might be missing actually exists. It’s a secret way into his house, though it requires a clever mind. Put fish in barrel and cast scroll to send fish into his house. However, anything you send is teleported. He probably smuggled things into his house this way because who wants to dig through a nasty fish barrel? What you can do though is find the other side by putting a teleport pyramid in and using the scroll, then teleporting to that pyramid. That’s what you missed I’d think.

[Chaoslink]

4. See, you’d think that because that’s what they want you to think. However, you can cast source all over and voidwoken don’t appear. There’s inconsistency on both sides however. It’s more theorycrafting than fact in the end.

[Chaoslink]

As for 6. Though, that’s where things are very divergent.

Even I don’t think the main story was all that memorable, I mean the second act is entirely free form and almost no narrative building happens and that which does is all their own enclosed sub plot that adds the the narrative, but isn’t directly part of it.

That said, their world building is great in my opinion. You completely change your point of view of different things multiple times. You start hating the magisters, then you just hate the whites because the reds are just doing their job. Then you stop being sure altogether because their solution might be right. Those turnarounds keep things interesting. I remember my second run feeling quite different despite being the same content since I knew different things and had a different perspective. Makes it quite enjoyable.

[Robotlev]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

1. That’s the thing, the climax of that subplot you might be missing actually exists. It’s a secret way into his house, though it requires a clever mind. Put fish in barrel and cast scroll to send fish into his house. However, anything you send is teleported. He probably smuggled things into his house this way because who wants to dig through a nasty fish barrel? What you can do though is find the other side by putting a teleport pyramid in and using the scroll, then teleporting to that pyramid. That’s what you missed I’d think.

Except I didn't miss it. I did this whole pyramid thing a few days ago. I just don't see it as a satysfying counclusion to the subplot. It's an awesome gameplay element but it doesn't tell me why the Doctor wants all this fish and what he's doing with it.

[Robotlev]

Originally posted by Johnny_B_80:

You're not wrong about the world sucking, almost everyone you meet is an a-hole, an idiot or a psycho, and that includes the "good guys". At one point around act 2, I was wondering who I'm actually fighting for and what am I trying to save. And the "best" ending seems to be the same as not doing anything at all. That's a an area where they kinda dropped the ball, in my opinion. Supposedly the game was supposed to be longer and the ending was rushed, but we'll never know.

I seems a lot of the problems this game has are there because of time constraints and cut content. When I first played it I was very impressed by the story but now when I'm paying more attention, I see the flaws.

[Robotlev]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

4. See, you’d think that because that’s what they want you to think. However, you can cast source all over and voidwoken don’t appear. There’s inconsistency on both sides however. It’s more theorycrafting than fact in the end.

I guess there are times when Source doesn't attract voidwoken even outside of gameplay abilities. But in fort Joy the lizard (Rezik, I think) constantly asks why the voidwoken are attracted to Source. So the devs know it's a question people would be asking but they don't answer it. And if they aren't actually attracted to Source, then why do they appear? Looks like a plot hole to me.

[Robotlev]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

As for 6. Though, that’s where things are very divergent.

Even I don’t think the main story was all that memorable, I mean the second act is entirely free form and almost no narrative building happens and that which does is all their own enclosed sub plot that adds the the narrative, but isn’t directly part of it.

That said, their world building is great in my opinion. You completely change your point of view of different things multiple times. You start hating the magisters, then you just hate the whites because the reds are just doing their job. Then you stop being sure altogether because their solution might be right. Those turnarounds keep things interesting. I remember my second run feeling quite different despite being the same content since I knew different things and had a different perspective. Makes it quite enjoyable.

Very true. I guess it's the ending that bugs me the most. You see all this awful stuff, so many problems, so much evil and it's all fixed the moment you ascend. The game treats divinity as panacea that magically fixes everything without addressing the actual problems, their roots and what to do with them. I think that is the reason i've found the story sort of empty.

[Janthis]

Very true. I guess it's the ending that bugs me the most. You see all this awful stuff, so many problems, so much evil and it's all fixed the moment you ascend. The game treats divinity as panacea that magically fixes everything without addressing the actual problems, their roots and what to do with them. I think that is the reason i've found the story sort of empty.

But things don't get fixed. In fact one of my main problems was that there is no truly "good" ending. If you ascend, the game tells you that you're just continuing the pattern of the Seven, the voidwoken attacks continue, and things are pretty much the same. The other endings aren't much better. What irked me most is that the "best" one is if you give up your source and let Lucian and Dallis win without ever answering for their crimes - because apparently, their plan was the best one all along. It's like reaching the end of LotR by allying with Saruman and giving him the One Ring because that's apparently the best choice. It never sat right with me to be honest, and was one of the reasons I was't interested in another playthrough.

[Robotlev]

Originally posted by Johnny_B_80:

Very true. I guess it's the ending that bugs me the most. You see all this awful stuff, so many problems, so much evil and it's all fixed the moment you ascend. The game treats divinity as panacea that magically fixes everything without addressing the actual problems, their roots and what to do with them. I think that is the reason i've found the story sort of empty.

But things don't get fixed. In fact one of my main problems was that there is no truly "good" ending. If you ascend, the game tells you that you're just continuing the pattern of the Seven, the voidwoken attacks continue, and things are pretty much the same. The other endings aren't much better. What irked me most is that the "best" one is if you give up your source and let Lucian and Dallis win without ever answering for their crimes - because apparently, their plan was the best one all along. It's like reaching the end of LotR by allying with Saruman and giving him the One Ring because that's apparently the best choice. It never sat right with me to be honest, and was one of the reasons I was't interested in another playthrough.

Well, you unite everyone to righteously fight against the void, it has a "happy ending' feel to it and maybe it shouldn't. The game asks whether you'll be a good god or a bad god and says that only you know. So, if you decide that your character will be a good divine, the happy ending just happens, I feel. I have actually only seen the "give Source to everyone" ending and "become divine" ending, so I can't really comment about the other ones.

[The.Spaz.]

Personally, If I were you, I wouldn't dig too much into the world building aspect of the game as it barely exists. Think of the world as a blank canvass that is still slowly taking on shape and definition. As such the story tends to only take into account certain events (that it might have just created) related to the first game and other aspects we just have to take them for what the they are. Much of it is left to interpretation on the players part.

If you noticed most of the books in the game, beyond skill/recipe, largely offer no real information. Most of them are just snippets of summary that barely last a paragraph or half complete stories with pages ripped away. Why can anyone in the world use magic and take it for granted? None of these are answered. If anything I would say the events we are playing through will be the lore for subsequent games and just maybe eventually Larian will actually connect all of these events into a definitive history for the Realm. Unlike Forgotten Realms/Dragon Age etc, Larian's world is very young and it does not have the benefits of authors and books outside of this medium to further define it.

However if you want a general run down: The Void existed before the light. Its apparently a sentient force that detests the light came. Eventually the light split into two entities/defendors protecting a realm that suddenly gave birth to life, from the corruption of the void. At some point Braccus Rex discovered source like a raw existing power that both are responsible for the void and the light and used it for his own gain. This in turn weakened the light and the Void was able to breach and manifest into the realm of Rivellon as some sort of a Dragon and corrupt the defendors protecting the realms. They become self aware, lose their power and end up at a beach shore as Source hunters of an order where you get to play as them and regain their origins. Beat back the void but tain Source in the process etc.

While the Gods in the first game didn't play a bigger role and I guess since your characters were technically not human so had less influence on you. Eons pass and now the Gods actually have bigger influence over the people and are now taking up the charge against the Voids corruption once more. Their existence is dubious, where it was just two eternal guardians protecting the void from a overlooking bastion they created, they are now a part of a whole race of species that maintained the balance till they disappeared over night and Fane is the only that survived. There is more to it obviously but thats related to the current game's plot so best not t ruin it and I am too lazy to put the spoiler tag.

[Robotlev]

Originally posted by The.Spaz.:

Personally, If I were you, I wouldn't dig too much into the world building aspect of the game as it barely exists. Think of the world as a blank canvass that is still slowly taking on shape and definition. As such the story tends to only take into account certain events (that it might have just created) related to the first game and other aspects we just have to take them for what the they are. Much of it is left to interpretation on the players part.

If you noticed most of the books in the game, beyond skill/recipe, largely offer no real information. Most of them are just snippets of summary that barely last a paragraph or half complete stories with pages ripped away. Why can anyone in the world use magic and take it for granted? None of these are answered. If anything I would say the events we are playing through will be the lore for subsequent games and just maybe eventually Larian will actually connect all of these events into a definitive history for the Realm. Unlike Forgotten Realms/Dragon Age etc, Larian's world is very young and it does not have the benefits of authors and books outside of this medium to further define it.

However if you want a general run down: The Void existed before the light. Its apparently a sentient force that detests the light came. Eventually the light split into two entities/defendors protecting a realm that suddenly gave birth to life, from the corruption of the void. At some point Braccus Rex discovered source like a raw existing power that both are responsible for the void and the light and used it for his own gain. This in turn weakened the light and the Void was able to breach and manifest into the realm of Rivellon as some sort of a Dragon and corrupt the defendors protecting the realms. They become self aware, lose their power and end up at a beach shore as Source hunters of an order where you get to play as them and regain their origins. Beat back the void but tain Source in the process etc.

While the Gods in the first game didn't play a bigger role and I guess since your characters were technically not human so had less influence on you. Eons pass and now the Gods actually have bigger influence over the people and are now taking up the charge against the Voids corruption once more. Their existence is dubious, where it was just two eternal guardians protecting the void from a overlooking bastion they created, they are now a part of a whole race of species that maintained the balance till they disappeared over night and Fane is the only that survived. There is more to it obviously but thats related to the current game's plot so best not t ruin it and I am too lazy to put the spoiler tag.

Yeah, I know that divinity lore isn't very deep unfortunately. I haven't even bothered to make sense of DOS1 and DOS2 as parts of the same universe since they have so little in common and sometimes contradict each other. But I think my questions relate more to the main story or subplots rather than worldbuilding. You can tell a good story without doing a lot of worldbuilding but I think (some of) the questions I asked keep DOS2 story from being truly great, if left unanswered.

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by Robotlev:

I guess there are times when Source doesn't attract voidwoken even outside of gameplay abilities. But in fort Joy the lizard (Rezik, I think) constantly asks why the voidwoken are attracted to Source. So the devs know it's a question people would be asking but they don't answer it. And if they aren't actually attracted to Source, then why do they appear? Looks like a plot hole to me.

Possibly it is a plot hole. I mean, there's moments like the source ring falling into the water because of the fisherman in Driftwood. Source infused ring in the water. Doesn't attract voidwoken themselves, but it attracts them when you try to pick it up. Here's my thoughts...

That same lizard mulling over source mentions Lucian's death and ponders why that causes Voidwoken to be attracted to source. If you consider what Lucian's death was caused by and why he wanted to do that thing, things might be a little more clear. Lucian didn't actually die as you know, but many elves did. This was intentional to weaken Tir Cindelious and prevent the Seven from being able to keep the tear in the veil plugged, allowing voidwoken to escape the void and enter Rivellon.

So, what in his [Lucian's] death caused this? Nothing necessarily related to Lucian specifically it might seem. The Divine "died" because the Seven could no longer sense him in his Tenebrium tomb. This meant they needed a new Divine and thus the Godwoken appeared. The God King was effectively fighting the Seven and therefore the Godwoken too as champions of the Seven. Given that Godwoken are effectively the strongest source users, it makes sense that source and voidwoken might be seen to be linked like the game suggests since those powerful sourcerers might be seen as potential Godwoken and the voidwoken would want to attack them.

Dallis'/Lucian's plan involves ridding the world of source. So Dallis rounds up sourcerers, godwoken included, to purge them of their source to repair the veil. Seeing that link between sourcerers being attacked by voidwoken as possible champions of the Seven, it makes sense to exploit that to justify what is effectively kidnapping sourcerers and turn the people against source users.

So I'd say that source does attract voidwoken... kinda. Source users do. Specifically powerful ones likely to be Godwoken. The void worm appears when you're fighting Alexander. Makes sense because he's Godwoken and sided with the Magisters, who act for Dallis and most specifically a side that is against The God King. However, source users like Hannag or Mordus don't attract voidwoken in the same sense. Yes, there's plenty of voidwoken around these characters, but that's because they're sworn. Mordus uses them to collect sourcerers to power his ritual of Mord'akim and Hannag summons them to fight the player if you antagonize her enough that she accepts the Covenant and becomes sworn, clearly something that was already offered to her. Magisters wanted to get her because she was a sourcerer. Voidwoken weren't trying to because she was a likely candidate to become a sworn minion of The God King.

If you look at the other Source masters, things kinda fit too. Almira has The Harbinger after her... possibly. There's not any real evidence it was looking for her specifically, but the MAgisters were after her for being a sourcerer and The Harbinger dealt with them seeing as how she's a sworn minion of The God King.

The only source masters that aren't directly linked to all of this are Saheila, The Advocate and Jahan. However, The Black Ring are known to be Sworn, and they were attacking Bloodmoon Isle to learn about the tree and specifically gain advantage over Addy (the doctor) since he and his demon forces were ultimately another wild card faction trying to claim Divinity. Jahan is a bit of an odd ball here because none of the major factions seemed to take interest in him, save the demons but that's explained by his profession as a demon hunter. Maybe he was just too powerful?

Saheila too didn't have much direct confrontation with the other factions either, though that might be because none of them knew where she went. The Magisters did have her in custody at one point after all. Could be that they just didn't have the resources to look for her after her escape. Though there's possibly something to be said about her enemy in act two, The Lone Wolves, who at that point were just mercenaries working for The God King's minions to remove Godwoken. Ifan was one of them and his task was to kill Alexander after all, before he learned that he himself was one of the Godwoken he was tasked with killing.

So, if you break down all these events and how they're tied to each faction as well as source and how it works considering all of each faction's goals, there's reasons that can explain why source is attracting voidwoken without it actually being some random thing that voidwoken just go to where source is. Voidwoken are just servants of The God King after all and he's trying to wipe out source users so the Seven have less potential champions to claim power with.

That's the neat thing about Divinity, there's so many different factions fighting at once with difference allegiances and goals. Between the main powers of TGK, Dallis/Lucian, The Seven, Addy and his demons, and the player as a wild card, you also have subfactions in the form of the Red Magisters, The Black Ring, The Paladins and more. I think that's one reason things get confusing since there's so many different goals trying to be achieved by all these different groups and even allies don't line up very well.