[SPOILERS] Maybe. A Rant about lizards and dragons.

[Duck]

As most of us might know, the Red prince is meant to bring back dragons and such blah blah blah. Yet, from what I remember from some of the other Divinity games, Dragons were unique and far more powerful than most creatures. But this game wants me to believe that lizards were like "We wuz dragons n ♥♥♥♥" when even in dragon commander ( The worst game in the series imo) Has lizards while the dragon involved in that story had no relation to those lizards.

Also If lizards have a lizard goddess, why is she a lizard? If the lizards devolved into dragons why did the goddess devolve too? I thought they were made in the god's image, and why would the 6 other races conveniently be typical humanoids and not lizards? If there's a book in game that explains this then I'd like to know. I remember dragons having a lot of powers for some reason and were pretty much godlike creatures, it's hard to imagine them as the lizard people now.

All this "lore" just keeps giving me more questions but I wanna just stick to lizards and dragons. Even if all previous ideas of dragons were scrapped, I still want to know why out of the 7 gods, the lizard goddess is a lizard instead of a dragon and dragon knights are even still a thing because of Slane. Oversights or am I just missing something?

[Akatosh]

In few words :

The dragons were too powerfull and were about to destroy everything, so the 6 other races forged an alliance to eradicate them.

To avoid the extinction, the goddess made a deal with the other gods and morphed all dragons into lezards and removed all their momories about they were dragons.

[Bomjus]

sounds like a fair deal compared to your races extinction ^

[Duck]

Meh, that's kinda lame, at least for me.

[falcongtr]

Dragons not lizards, but lizards have some kind of superiority complex because they somewhat
look alike with dragons - it was well mentioned in Dragon commander with Lizard bride. Dragons actually ancient race and even have their own god - Ouroboros.

[Duck]

Originally posted by falcongtr:

Dragons not lizards, but lizards have some kind of superiority complex because they somewhat
look alike with dragons - it was well mentioned in Dragon commander with Lizard bride. Dragons actually ancient race and even have their own god - Ouroboros.

If that's the case why is OS2 making lizards related to dragons. Which Akatosh explained... even though I find it's a weak explanation.

Only thing I came up with after thing too much about it was that they're just lizards with wings, but not on par with Patriach and dragon commander's mother. It seems to much for one of those gods to give their mortal race too much power too...

[falcongtr]

Originally posted by Profligate:

If that's the case why is OS2 making lizards related to dragons. Which Akatosh explained... even though I find it's a weak explanation.

Well it same thing as saing that apes and humas same species or wyverns and dragons just because they were some of variations of more sapient wyverns or something to dragon as like ape to human. Play Divinity 2 again there dragon that resides in cave - even mentioning his own name in thoughts creates new types of flowers around him and voicing it will make entire new species he is ageless and immortal - that's not race that needs protection from from anything...So as I said lizards some long time ago were flying lizards thinking themselfs as dragons, who worship their goddess, Dragons super powerfull ancient race that was presented all over during Divinity lore from (like in dragon commander), Maxos was their friend with them and Maxos lived during dragon commander time line - the time when lizards were already present.

tl;dr they are diffirent.

[Duck]

Originally posted by falcongtr:

Originally posted by Profligate:

If that's the case why is OS2 making lizards related to dragons. Which Akatosh explained... even though I find it's a weak explanation.

Well it same thing as saing that apes and humas same species or wyverns and dragons just because they were some of variations of more sapient wyverns or something to dragon as like ape to human. Play Divinity 2 again there dragon that resides in cave - even mentioning his own name in thoughts creates new types of flowers around him and voicing it will make entire new species he is ageless and immortal - that's not race that needs protection from from anything...So as I said lizards some long time ago were flying lizards thinking themselfs as dragons, who worship their goddess, Dragons super powerfull ancient race that was prisented all over during Divinity lore from (like in dragon commander), Maxos was their friend with them and Maxos lived during dragon commander time line - the time when lizards were already present.

tl;dr they are diffirent.

I know that but OS2 is trying to make them the same. The dragonling summon looks more like a dragon than a wyvern, and I think they tried tieing the dragonelf malarky with the lizards saying that might have been their punishment into becoming lizards. While I also don't think wyverns were intelligent enough to do that to elves especially if elves were supposedly as strong as they are in OS2 and not just human with pointy ears and are just hippies like in dragon commander.

I pretty much preferred D2's version of dragons. If they were also wyverns, why are there wyverns in D2 but lizards in DC, all the while there's a random event with a dwarven "scholar" trying to link lizards and orcs as related species at some point. Point is, I find all this lore a mess and they might just scrap super powerful dragons in favour of these lizard dragons.

[falcongtr]

Originally posted by Profligate:

I know that but OS2 is trying to make them the same. The dragonling summon looks more like a dragon than a wyvern, and I think they tried tieing the dragonelf malarky with the lizards saying that might have been their punishment for becoming lizards. While I also don't think wyverns were intelligent enough to do that to elves especially if elves were supposedly as strong as they are in OS2 and not just human with pointy ears and are just hippies like in dragon commander.

I pretty much preferred D2's version of dragons. If they were also wyverns, why are there wyverns in D2 but lizards in DC, all the while there's a random event with a dwarven "scholar" trying to link lizards and orcs as related species at some point. Point is, I find all this lore a mess and they might just scrap super powerful dragons in favour of these lizard dragons.

Well that still needs to be seen. While there are some claims that lore got retconned - right now it's more about minor or more about unclear parts of lore. They there may be cluster f u c k level of retcon like you said with dragons and lizards, becuse this is recton not only to D2 but also to DC and DD - where dragons also were shown as almighty beings. Then again I think bringing Chris Avellone in divinity series was really bad idea as person who wrote Fane and by extension - retconed seven gods(as part of his background) or atleast played crucial role in retcon. Frankly speaking all of this reeks PoE where gods also were not who they appeared to be(I get this some new hipster's-not-your-averge-fantasy appoach) - which is also was last work of Avellone in Obsidian. To further addup to this mess this all messes up both Astarte(goddess from previous game) and Ouroboros not to mention Damned One and whole demon lore.

[Duck]

Yeah, I'm glad I wasn't the only one noticing all these changes with little to none explanations. I was gonna mention Astarte at some point too, with I think they made all demigods, creations from Amadias magic? Not exactly in her image but she's the patron mother for them? Which would diminish her overall role as a demigod seeing as how petty the gods actually are. It also seems to add a huge power differences in "power" and what is even a god anymore. Ah well, if there were gonna be clearer answers it'll be in the future. I'll just sit here confused. If they were gonna retcon anything I think it should have been DC.

[falcongtr]

There is huge problem with Astarte that retcons even DOS she said to be goddess of source and source(Pun intented) of it - her fight with Void Dragon tainted source that she gifted to people, now it's that Fane found source(which should come from Astarte) - in DD it was healing power nothing more Lucian never wanted it cuz it was just your average heal as it was in DOS even now they made it into deus ex super power - and this alone ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up their lore greatly - I mean to the point of considering DOS2 as adaptation(as ridiculous this may sound) of the reast games.

[Duck]

Yeah, I just remember that about her after that post. I don't really know anything about the first 2 games but I did assume there would be changes that DK and DOS made that made it look inconsistent to what the originals created. Even gameplay wise, bless is this source consuming spell that the gods grants, yet OS1 had bless and mass bless with similar effects and were easy spells to find.

I know what you mean entirely, I think the only issue I have is that they'll make more changes that even contradict OS2 and it'll just all be a mess to even learn about. But that's on them to care about I suppose.

Also if Akatosh's post is the "explanation" that's a little unnerving as it feels so cheap. Funny that I had more fun learning and remembering the different explanations older games had and comparing it with OS2's than learning about OS2's lore.

[Ashera]

The only glaring plot hole I see here is... Slane. There's a damn dragon on the first island. Aren't they meant to be extinct or something?
Why not force Dalis' angry dragon end-game fight mode form and Slane to rebirth the dragon race like they would in a zoo for endangered animals.

[Say]

Originally posted by Ashera:

The only glaring plot hole I see here is... Slane. There's a damn dragon on the first island. Aren't they meant to be extinct or something?
Why not force Dalis' angry dragon end-game fight mode form and Slane to rebirth the dragon race like they would in a zoo for endangered animals.

Well considering Dallis is undead I don't think it would be possible for her to mate with Slane.

I mean...I suppose they could mate but it wouldn't be possible to reproduce.

[Duck]

Maybe he could've been the lizard companion instead of Edward 2.0 from DC. But that would also make that new breed of dragons not the same above god tier dragons, Half lizard, half dragon knight? I dunno what would happen. I also thouht MC from DK was the last one, which sorta forces me to accept that they did make it non canon.
Also with Dallis and eternals... where would dragons fit into all of that? I don't expect to know much about eternals as Fane is a terrible example of an Eternal, he goes on like they were the only things in existence.

[Duck]

Originally posted by Winter Phoenix:

Originally posted by Ashera:

The only glaring plot hole I see here is... Slane. There's a damn dragon on the first island. Aren't they meant to be extinct or something?
Why not force Dalis' angry dragon end-game fight mode form and Slane to rebirth the dragon race like they would in a zoo for endangered animals.

Well considering Dallis is undead I don't think it would be possible for her to mate with Slane.

I mean...I suppose they could mate but it wouldn't be possible to reproduce.

If there's a world with enough source and such, Dallis could stop being undead? I mean this is all me guessing right now and it's spoilers so I'll try to use formatting ( bad at it ).

First off, fane talks about his skin falling off after years of being imprisoned, so I assume there is more to it than a skeleton. Not sure how he got the undead "trait" but that might be for the sake of the game. Also during his romance scene on the LV, like at the end of act 3 not the "Oh curious" thing. he shares some source with you and you both kinda "mind meld" or something and you get to see him ( not see but described) in his real form which is nothing like a skeleton. That being said it might be possible for fane and Dallis to get their forms again with source, because source does everything! But I personally would've preferred eternals not existing but here's something to think about I suppose.