Glass cannon, why is it so good but so god awful that you'd rather use something else?

[Pandie]

I've been doing a solo run on divinity 2 (Got rather sick of my friends not playing with me so I finally decided to push a solo run) I've got a full team of origin characters cause I want to be deep in lore while having at least some form of difficulty (Classic mode) Fane is one of the characters I chose on my journey, For a team I decided to use glass cannon, which I really enjoy using. At a point I decided to use glass cannon, which turned out to work really well on this necro/summ combo I'm doing with him However an issue arised the more I used it.

Glass cannon seems to have a tendency of slapping a big fat target with a sign to the AI saying "Hey this guy is using glass cannon you know what that means!" Everytime right on the start they go for the debuffs on them immediately, lighting him ablaze, silencing him, shackle of pain. etc. (hilariously he didn't die at all in most of these encounters)

So a serious question comes to mind. What makes glass cannon so worth it? I would feel it would be but the main issue is the AI immediately know they have it so they go for them immediately most of the time. I wanna know what would be best for fane in my current build I have for him and your opinion on the matter.

[Pyromus]

引用自 StevenXu：

Let’s do a simple calculation.

A) 4 man without glass cannon, the AP for full round u can spend is: 16 = 4 * 4

B) 4 man with glass cannon the AP is: 24 = 4* 6

C) 4 man without glass cannon, but one of character in your team been cc, AP is: 12 = 3 * 4

D) 4 man with glass cannon, but half of your team been cc. So AP is: 12 = 2 * 6

In conclusion, 16,12 without glass cannon, 24, 12 with glass cannon. Glass cannon wins.

eh, I see your logic there, but typically people don't run 4 glass cannons, it's usually 1 or 2 party members. So the one party member they use it on gets cc'd because they aren't able to work around it, and then it's 12 vs 16 because the one gc character gets constant cc.

[fynx]

My glass cannon Sebille with a bow is the ultimate hitman:
Turn 1: Shoot(-3) - shoot(-2) - adrenaline(+2) - flesh sacrifice(+1) - shoot(-2) - chameleon cloak(-1)
Turn 2: Shoot(2) - Shoot(2) - jump away(-1)

or

Turn 1: Shoot(-3) - adrenaline(+2) - shoot(-3) - flesh sacrifice(+1) - shoot(-2) - chameleon cloak(-1)
Turn 2: Shoot(2) - Shoot(2)

[Godwoken Dovahkiin]

I don't know why people dislike having a smart AI that makes you smarter in the long run. Glass Cannon is a great talent, provided you are smart enough to use it. You have skills that literally counter the effects that bypass the armor. Got knocked down? First Aid and Soul Mate, got burned or poisoned? Fortify. You can't find a good way to use Glass Cannon? Don't use it.

A lot of people here don't like to think outside the box, they don't try new things or change their strategy. Basically learn to adapt to the AI. Try out stench + glass cannon and see if it works.

I use Glass Cannon on my summoner and I've had no problems, already summoned and buffed incarnate, getting stunned is the least of her worries and better her than my other characters.

Wizard with Glass Cannon can spam a lot of spells in a turn, also 3 basic attacks every turns is pretty strong. People forget that sneaking exists. Have him sneak and wait until the last turn to attack, use supernova and bam, you have a character that dealt huge damage on a spell you aren't likely to use in combat and activated elemental affinity AND you have 6 Ap AND it's your turn. If he has enough initiative he gets to have 2 turns, which all of this combined is INSANE.

A rogue with Glass Cannon is nice since they most likely will use chameleon cloak.

Like someone said before, a tank that soaks CC can be useful.

A lot of people think something is useless until others find a way to make it work. I noticed in Tactician enemy archers use a lot of knock down arrows, but hey that's why you have Sabotage, or steal the arrows from the enemies (If you can even steal them, I've never tried but if you could that would be awesome).

[StevenXu]

引用自 Godwoken Dovahkiin：

I don't know why people dislike having a smart AI that makes you smarter in the long run. Glass Cannon is a great talent, provided you are smart enough to use it. You have skills that literally counter the effects that bypass the armor. Got knocked down? First Aid and Soul Mate, got burned or poisoned? Fortify. You can't find a good way to use Glass Cannon? Don't use it.

A lot of people here don't like to think outside the box, they don't try new things or change their strategy. Basically learn to adapt to the AI. Try out stench + glass cannon and see if it works.

I use Glass Cannon on my summoner and I've had no problems, already summoned and buffed incarnate, getting stunned is the least of her worries and better her than my other characters.

Wizard with Glass Cannon can spam a lot of spells in a turn, also 3 basic attacks every turns is pretty strong. People forget that sneaking exists. Have him sneak and wait until the last turn to attack, use supernova and bam, you have a character that dealt huge damage on a spell you aren't likely to use in combat and activated elemental affinity AND you have 6 Ap AND it's your turn. If he has enough initiative he gets to have 2 turns, which all of this combined is INSANE.

A rogue with Glass Cannon is nice since they most likely will use chameleon cloak.

Like someone said before, a tank that soaks CC can be useful.

A lot of people think something is useless until others find a way to make it work. I noticed in Tactician enemy archers use a lot of knock down arrows, but hey that's why you have Sabotage, or steal the arrows from the enemies (If you can even steal them, I've never tried but if you could that would be awesome).

Totally agree.

[Chaoslink]

引用自 Godwoken Dovahkiin：

...
Like someone said before, a tank that soaks CC can be useful.

... steal the arrows from the enemies (If you can even steal them, I've never tried but if you could that would be awesome).

The only thing to consider when it comes to tanking CC, is that its only useful if the CC would be affecting the others. If your tank is GC and eating a CC that the others would otherwise not take, like electrified water being absorbed into a stun where it otherwise would have been deflected by armor... Point is that GC will take more CC than they're protecting others from.

And yes, any character using a consumable against you can have that stolen. In fact, in the few instances of NPCs being on your side in a fight, you can sell them consumables you want them to use and they'll often do so. In some advanced cases, you can sell stuff to people you're going to fight. An example of this would be if you have no fire or earth damage, to sell enemies (before they're hostile) a fire resistance potion and earth resistance potion as well as selling a fighter INT food/drink and a mage STR food and drink. Do that, and often the first turn the AI will just eat and drink all of that and you'll get a free turn to fight before they have a chance to fight. Waste the first turn of a scarier enemy like the doctor or advocate when you sell to them. Obviously doesn't work on everyone, but it does work in most cases.

[Godwoken Dovahkiin]

引用自 Chaoslink：

引用自 Godwoken Dovahkiin：

...
Like someone said before, a tank that soaks CC can be useful.

... steal the arrows from the enemies (If you can even steal them, I've never tried but if you could that would be awesome).

The only thing to consider when it comes to tanking CC, is that its only useful if the CC would be affecting the others. If your tank is GC and eating a CC that the others would otherwise not take, like electrified water being absorbed into a stun where it otherwise would have been deflected by armor... Point is that GC will take more CC than they're protecting others from.

And yes, any character using a consumable against you can have that stolen. In fact, in the few instances of NPCs being on your side in a fight, you can sell them consumables you want them to use and they'll often do so. In some advanced cases, you can sell stuff to people you're going to fight. An example of this would be if you have no fire or earth damage, to sell enemies (before they're hostile) a fire resistance potion and earth resistance potion as well as selling a fighter INT food/drink and a mage STR food and drink. Do that, and often the first turn the AI will just eat and drink all of that and you'll get a free turn to fight before they have a chance to fight. Waste the first turn of a scarier enemy like the doctor or advocate when you sell to them. Obviously doesn't work on everyone, but it does work in most cases.

I love this game even more for having mechanics not available in other games. Stealing arrows that would otherwise make your life hell, doing what a rogue should be doing, if only more games adapted things like this, make everything more in depth so you can choose a lot of ways to approach different situations.

Also lol and giving them food and then they eat it "Why is there an apple in my pocket in the middle of combat? It wasn't there before *looks around*... I better eat it".

That reminds me of Skyrim a little bit, makes me think, rogues could use a skill before combat where you poison your enemies, it could be deadly poison that inflicts health damage or a debuff. Or putting oil at enemies feet. Can only be used while sneaking too. You know, make the game even more dynamic.

[Chaoslink]

引用自 Godwoken Dovahkiin：

I love this game even more for having mechanics not available in other games...

Yeah, the way I've always said it, is that of all the flaws this game has (and there are many) it is still better than most others simply because of just how much there is crammed into it.

[Godwoken Dovahkiin]

引用自 Chaoslink：

引用自 Godwoken Dovahkiin：

I love this game even more for having mechanics not available in other games...

Yeah, the way I've always said it, is that of all the flaws this game has (and there are many) it is still better than most others simply because of just how much there is crammed into it.

Ikr, if they put more effort on this, they could redefine the genre. I find it kinda sad that most devs give up after a year of release. This game has so much potential, it could be the best of the best, classic, talked about for ages(like skyrim). Every time I play I find something new, when I was saving Gareth I took the left path with the shrieker and found an NPC I've never seen before. The fact that I still find new things after 330 plus hours is amazing.

[ViperClaw]

Glass cannons where awesome in Classic. I really enjoyed my "assassin" build. The Definitive game kills glass cannons through conversations. Some conversation scripts seem to let the AI start the fight, no matter how much initiative one has.

The talent was fun. Currently it isn't.

[Chaoslink]

引用自 ViperClaw：

Glass cannons where awesome in Classic. I really enjoyed my "assassin" build. The Definitive game kills glass cannons through conversations. Some conversation scripts seem to let the AI start the fight, no matter how much initiative one has.

The talent was fun. Currently it isn't.

Second thread in a very short time you've expressed the same opinion. While there isn't anything inherently wrong with that, its much less relevant here. Glass cannons typically shouldn't be starting during a fight to begin with, engaging from stealth most of the way through the first turn is much better. However, the thing you're referring to only happens on a select few fights, pretty infrequently. It only skips the turn of the character in conversation. However, that really isn't a strong reason to completely avoid the talent entirely. Your top initiative character really should be aiming to go last (like they would initiating from stealth) to get their turns back to back. Its a much better tactic.

The conversation "scripts" really aren't intended to skip your character's turn either, its likely an oversight in the programming. The same happened with trading in the past where a certain order of operations issue allowed you to clear vendors of their entire inventories, gold and all, for free. This is likely something like that.

As a player with 700 hours, most of which were before the DE, I can assure you that this was present in the classic version as well as the DE.

[Aliceskysareblue]

CC is a real issue if you go glass cannon make sure you have High wits, other wise you may never get a turn with that character.

[StevenXu]

引用自 elderago：

CC is a real issue if you go glass cannon make sure you have High wits, other wise you may never get a turn with that character.

Surprise attack, team work.

[Bullett00th]

I can't imagine using glass cannon in a solo playthrough.

I found it only good on my archer who stays the f away from the heat of battle and is capable of going invisible and teleporting.

[CRAGNAR]

There is a mod that removes enemies so called psychic abilities, this prevents the constant spamming towards weaker enemies by default. I think if you look up psychic enemies or such for DE you will easily find it. I had this issue with DOS1, and it angered me to no end.

[ViperClaw]

引用自 Chaoslink：

引用自 ViperClaw：

Glass cannons where awesome in Classic. I really enjoyed my "assassin" build. The Definitive game kills glass cannons through conversations. Some conversation scripts seem to let the AI start the fight, no matter how much initiative one has.

The talent was fun. Currently it isn't.

Second thread in a very short time you've expressed the same opinion. While there isn't anything inherently wrong with that, its much less relevant here. Glass cannons typically shouldn't be starting during a fight to begin with, engaging from stealth most of the way through the first turn is much better. However, the thing you're referring to only happens on a select few fights, pretty infrequently. It only skips the turn of the character in conversation. However, that really isn't a strong reason to completely avoid the talent entirely. Your top initiative character really should be aiming to go last (like they would initiating from stealth) to get their turns back to back. Its a much better tactic.

The conversation "scripts" really aren't intended to skip your character's turn either, its likely an oversight in the programming. The same happened with trading in the past where a certain order of operations issue allowed you to clear vendors of their entire inventories, gold and all, for free. This is likely something like that.

As a player with 700 hours, most of which were before the DE, I can assure you that this was present in the classic version as well as the DE.

And i can state my opinion a third time if i'd like to. It wasn't exactly the same and under another context. It was about overall, new issues and it was followed by several different examples. So what?

I know about the back to back strategy. I'm pretty much forced into it at this point. I'm at over 500 hours. And if you have played classic as much as you say you did, you will know, that it got worse in the script department.

Furthermore.. some conversations start mid-combat, negating/resetting the whole inititive order and even ignoring the new, alternating combat order. So try to defend this flaw as much as you like. It's still a flaw.

My statement still stands. Have a nice day.