Lone Wolf OP ?

[Urg69]

So, I've played a bit with a friend. Now at first we played "normally" with 4 characters. But then we decided to play with the Lone Wolf talent, because we thought it might make the game harder. And we soon realised, not only isn't the game harder, it's much, much easier. We cut through most ennemies with no effort at all, Our team, being reduced from 4 people to 2 geared up much, much faster, making us even more OP than before.

Am I the only one thinking that Lone wolf is basically a cheat ?

[Shard of Manus]

It depends on your approach to Lone Wolf, but yes, potentially it can make combat easier.

However, it does mean you lack Civil abilities compared to a 4-man team, you lack build variety, you have fewer total skills and so must suffer a higher relative number of cooldowns in combat. You have less overall AP, and fewer turns (so CC has a bigger impact).

But as I said, used correctly, Lone Wolf can make the game much easier. Used incorrectly, and it'll make it much harder.

[Urg69]

Originally posted by Shard of Manus:

It depends on your approach to Lone Wolf, but yes, potentially it can make combat easier.

However, it does mean you lack Civil abilities compared to a 4-man team, you lack build variety, you have fewer total skills and so must suffer a higher relative number of cooldowns in combat. You have less overall AP, and fewer turns (so CC has a bigger impact).

But as I said, used correctly, Lone Wolf can make the game much easier. Used incorrectly, and it'll make it much harder.

I agree with you, but it's far too easy to use it well, focus your team on one type of damage (physical or magical), get a decent amount of CC and Mobility, and enjoy you are invincible. By Act 4 me and my pal would OS ennemies, and that's counting the fact that my pal did'nt have a good weapon and did'nt deal enough damage.

That's why I think they should make it more of a negative / challenge, because now, I don't see the point in playing with 4 players :/

[Chaoslink]

I am mostly through a lone wolf co-op with a friend with a modified tactician. Instead of enemies being scaled up by 50%, it’s 200%. On top of that, all enemies have been leveled to two higher than us. So if they’re usually level 12 and we’re 15, they’ll level to 17 immediately once combat begins. Yet by act 3 we had to bump it to 3 levels and even then we’re near invulnerable. We have many other mods though to create a custom difficulty, some makes things easier, some harder.

Personally, I love the armor based saving throws mod. Makes your armor resist statuses instead of preventing them. So if a battle stomp hits for half your physical (it’s % based) the character being hit has a 50% + CON chance to resist the knockdown. This means even with armor, you can get stunned. Late game, enemies have close to a base 50% to deflect your effects even with no armor.

[Shard of Manus]

Play solo. That's what I do. Damage scaling with Lone Wolf at end-game is HIGH, and you'll be dealing double to triple the damage of a normal character, potentially with higher crit chance and even higher crit multiplier depending on the build.

In my opinion, Huntsman benefits ridiculously from Lone Wolf. Crit chance, High Ground damage plus the double damage anyway... it's insane all throughout the game.

Solo Huntsman is still pretty easy, though lack of decent CC can cause problems, so crafting grenades and arrows is important for Huntsman.

[Gregorovitch]

Originally posted by Urg69:

Am I the only one thinking that Lone wolf is basically a cheat ?

Pretty much. Becasue you've got so many points to distribute your damage multipliers go through the roof, you've got two extra AP which means you can do a lot of combos in one turn you can't really do with just 4AP and your initiative is going to be very high so you almost always go first and get to pull those combos before the enemy gets a chance to do anything much at all.

What this adds up to is you can strip their armour and CC the ♥♥♥♥ out of them before they really get a chance to do anything about it - if they're still alive that is - and as we all know an enemy that's had it's armour stripped and has been CC'd is not very long for this world.

There are certain bosses in the game that have a ton of AP and almost always get to go first against you with a 4-char party and they are an absolute pain to deal with. As LW you are like that all the time. The poor monsters don't stand a chance.

[Simpson3k]

Be carefull what you write. Cant be that people find an easy way of playing to then announcing almost complaining much to easy everything is and instead of choosing a more difficult way of playing in the future they demand their choosen easy way to be made more difficult by the devs with changes to the game.

Damn you if you seek challenge then find it yourself, there are enough ways, dont seek challenges on the expensive of the fun of other players who do like the easy way of playing a game.

[Urg69]

Originally posted by Simpson3k:

Be carefull what you write. Cant be that people find an easy way of playing to then announcing almost complaining much to easy everything is and instead of choosing a more difficult way of playing in the future they demand their choosen easy way to be made more difficult by the devs with changes to the game.

Damn you if you seek challenge then find it yourself, there are enough ways, dont seek challenges on the expensive of the fun of other players who do like the easy way of playing a game.

Actually, I think that Lone Wolf was supposed to be a way to encourage players to play in a challenging way (with 2 people instead of 4), not a way to basically One hit kill every ennemies/bosses in the game. I'm not saying "this game is not hardcore enough" or "they should nerf this" I was just wondering if I was the only one thinking the Lone Wolf talent is OP or not.

Just because I complain about X or Y feature of a game doesn't mean that I want them changed, or removed. I'm just giving my opinion on a specific feature of a game, and wondering if people feel the same way about said feature or not.

[Ellis Dee]

i've been playing this way only and it's a give and take. when i'm just 2 i have to make sure i don't get charmed or mindcontrol or whatever. cuz that's gg. also i personally have mobility issues because i played certain stuff. the thing that made it easier for me was i just didn't have the patience to play my first go through tediously minding 4 ppls crap. that's when i noticed it and i was like ok so they make it ok to go 2 toons i'm good to go. like i say though there are some fights later in the game where 4 toons would help immensly.

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by Simpson3k:

Be carefull what you write. Cant be that people find an easy way of playing to then announcing almost complaining much to easy everything is and instead of choosing a more difficult way of playing in the future they demand their choosen easy way to be made more difficult by the devs with changes to the game.

Damn you if you seek challenge then find it yourself, there are enough ways, dont seek challenges on the expensive of the fun of other players who do like the easy way of playing a game.

That’s the thing though. I’ve done lone wolf builds that shouldn’t really work, stuff that doesn’t synergize whatsoever and still wrecked everything on tactician. Play a half competent build in lone wolf and you literally have to try to lose. You’re just too strong too fast.

[Simpson3k]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

Originally posted by Simpson3k:

Be carefull what you write. Cant be that people find an easy way of playing to then announcing almost complaining much to easy everything is and instead of choosing a more difficult way of playing in the future they demand their choosen easy way to be made more difficult by the devs with changes to the game.

Damn you if you seek challenge then find it yourself, there are enough ways, dont seek challenges on the expensive of the fun of other players who do like the easy way of playing a game.

That’s the thing though. I’ve done lone wolf builds that shouldn’t really work, stuff that doesn’t synergize whatsoever and still wrecked everything on tactician. Play a half competent build in lone wolf and you literally have to try to lose. You’re just too strong too fast.

*shrugs* lone wolfs are alone for a reason, usually their lack of social skills but they kick as.s in every confrontation. But really you have to decide iam i good in persuading or identifying, can i pick every lock or i am i good in trading or whatever. You might be a bad a.ss in every battle but you really suck in almost all but one single civil skill.

And for the difficulty, you could say the same about the general difficulty level then, wich you choose at the beginning.. choosing the easiest one to then complain about it being to easy instead of choosing a more difficult one to begin with.

Its ok if you did everything possible to get a challenge, go solo with a non lone wolf, go naked... highest difficult level never spend any level up points and then the game is still a cakewalk for you, you can complain. But if you are pro and use every possible way for you to rock and roll the game world... dont complain if it shakes under your footfalls..

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by Simpson3k:

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

That’s the thing though. I’ve done lone wolf builds that shouldn’t really work, stuff that doesn’t synergize whatsoever and still wrecked everything on tactician. Play a half competent build in lone wolf and you literally have to try to lose. You’re just too strong too fast.

*shrugs* lone wolfs are alone for a reason, usually their lack of social skills but they kick as.s in every confrontation. But really you have to decide iam i good in persuading or identifying, can i pick every lock or i am i good in trading or whatever. You might be a bad a.ss in every battle but you really suck in almost all but one single civil skill.

And for the difficulty, you could say the same about the general difficulty level then, wich you choose at the beginning.. choosing the easiest one to then complain about it being to easy instead of choosing a more difficult one to begin with.

Its ok if you did everything possible to get a challenge, go solo with a non lone wolf, go naked... highest difficult level never spend any level up points and then the game is still a cakewalk for you, you can complain. But if you are pro and use every possible way for you to rock and roll the game world... dont complain if it shakes under your footfalls..

That’s the thing though, civil skills can be swapped in seconds, port to vengeance, respec then waypoint out and pyramid back. Even if you don’t do that, most civil skills are unnecessary. They just make things convenient. I can agree that people that complain that things are too easy when they do everything to make themselves powerful, I agree with you there. But lone wolf is different. Unless you specifically try to be bad, stacking int on a melee warrior with no int skills, there is no difficulty in lone wolf. You can’t expect players to have to gimp themselves (naked runs and such) just for difficulty. Most people wouldn’t find that fun. I have mods to make things harder, making tactician scale to 200% instead of 50%, leveling all enemies two levels above you. I made my own challenge. Still, lone wolf builds really requires complete changes to difficulty and enemy scaling as right now a 4 man classic is harder than lone wolf tactician.

[Simpson3k]

So only because there is one game mod that isnt at least partly challenging between other very or half challenging ways of playing the game, its asked to make that one way of playing at least descent challenging aswell? So that people who do enjoy an easy game get their as.ses kicked on a regular base till they probably give up and move on another game. Why?

Why not simply accept that there is an easy way and simply avoid it to a degree if you must. Like only have one lone wolf while the other char of the duo is a regular one.. for example.. because than the table could get turned against you pretty hard, if your lone worlf suddenly gets victim of a domination spell and turns against your single regular char.. happy squirming for survival.

[InfestedAdam]

My friend and I co-oped with Lone Wolf and Fort Joy mighta been a whee bit of a struggle. But once we got geared up and with enough skills to boot, we just tore through fights with ease. His ranger/hunter was able to burst down single targets with ease while my mage was able to lay out crowd control or AoE groups of enemy with ease. Despite our damage being split between physical and magical, it wasn't an issue for us on classical mode.

In terms of social skills it wasn't that bad either once we were able to respec skills. It was tedious but I ran with persuasion outside of towns and would simply respec to barter when selling items. The only thing we missed out on with Lone Wolf was the origin characters storyline and quests since we both made custom characters.

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by Simpson3k:

So only because there is one game mod that isnt at least partly challenging between other very or half challenging ways of playing the game, its asked to make that one way of playing at least descent challenging aswell? So that people who do enjoy an easy game get their as.ses kicked on a regular base till they probably give up and move on another game. Why?

Why not simply accept that there is an easy way and simply avoid it to a degree if you must. Like only have one lone wolf while the other char of the duo is a regular one.. for example.. because than the table could get turned against you pretty hard, if your lone worlf suddenly gets victim of a domination spell and turns against your single regular char.. happy squirming for survival.

You say it like adding options to change how challenging the game plays with lone wolf would have any impact on current difficulties. They could literally just have a meenu to tweak a custom difficulty that scales far past that of the current ones. Or options like giving NPC proper talents.

So... in response specifically to... "So only because there is one game mod that isnt at least partly challenging between other very or half challenging ways of playing the game, its asked to make that one way of playing at least descent challenging aswell?"

Yes. Exactly. Because the part you included after the fact is irrelevant.

[Simpson3k]

Even though i often read some people find the game difficult to play at fights so perhaps your way of calculating the degree of challenging isnt the universal one that shall be forced to everybody. Only because something is to easy for you, doesnt mean has to become more difficult for everybody. Unless you suck as much on social level as the lone wolfs in this game and dont care about others only think at your own gain of fun.

I do like the it is and i am against chaning anything, period. And as long as there are other ways to gain more challange there is no need to remove an easier way of playing out of the game only because you refuse to choose the challange in your own game´s setup.