Smoke clouds

[Stormwind]

How do you use smoke clouds tactically?

Is it better to be in one, shooting out? or do you throw it at an opponent?

Does it obstruct line of sight if it is just between 2 opponents, with neither one actually in it?

[ⓀⒾⓦⒾ‰]

it blocks ranged attacks both in and out of the cloud
theres no line of sight in smoke unless youre directly adjacent to the enemy

[Amix]

Smoke clouds are not that good for defense because enemies can attack through AOE skills. So it does not give guaranteed defense. Also enemies sometimes enter that smoke (Larian AI rules) LOL. And you can no longer attack them, you need to get very close to them. You can not even buff your team members in smoke clouds unless you get really close. Smoke arrow slows anyone with glass canon talent & those who have no magic armour.
Smoke+ Bless, now this is the best combination in entire game. You can make your entire team invisible with 3 AP, with ambidextrous, it is just 2AP. And invisibility is best defensive skill in entire game.
I have yet to find smoke grenade recipe in game, so I use them only to make my entire team invisible.

[Chaoslink]

You can also use them in combination with root effects like the Worm Tremor + Torturer combo as an armor piercing "hard" CC. Enemies that can't move and can't see out of the smoke can't do anything other than buffs or attacking themselves to try and catch you in the AoE. In some cases, this can be useful to turn off a group of enemies you've clumped together.

Otherwise blessing it to make your team invisible is the other main use for it.

I did try using it a bit with a spear build when attacking ranged enemies since my spear's melee range allowed me to attack them without them being able to shoot back. Still had to root them in it, but I was doing that anyway to keep them still for the 50% cleave on the spear. Not sure it was worth using the smoke there in the end, but its a thought.

[Stormwind]

Thanks all!

I didnt know about blessed clouds, will try that out. So they stay invisible even when they leave the cloud?

Question about the spear....I havent really seen justification for that...I either use strength melee 2hander, or if finesse I go with daggers for backstabs. Under what circumstances are you using a spear? They are all finesse right? Does it out damage backstab?

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by Stormwind:

Thanks all!

I didnt know about blessed clouds, will try that out. So they stay invisible even when they leave the cloud?

Question about the spear....I havent really seen justification for that...I either use strength melee 2hander, or if finesse I go with daggers for backstabs. Under what circumstances are you using a spear? They are all finesse right? Does it out damage backstab?

Blessed smoke applies an invisibility buff, so yes it'll stay even once you exit. Though I forget how long it lasts, might just be a turn.

As for spears, don't compare them to daggers, compare them to STR 2H instead. The concept is that you trade a small amount of base weapon damage (at level 20 its about 5%) for longer range. That range affects Warfare spells like whirlwind by making the range about 50% more than usual. Spears give you the benefit of having a more balanced armor type, so you're not as weak to magic like the STR build is. They also allow the user to outrange enemy melee most of the time, meaning that if you root the enemy in place, you can attack them without them being able to attack back. While your damage is slightly lower than a STR 2H, the ability to trade with another melee such that you're taking no damage while still attacking them is quite useful. If you can get a 50% cleave spear as well, then your regular attacks become mini whirlwinds, allowing you to deal respectable melee AoE if you teleport enemies into a clump and root them to prevent them from dispersing. My general rule is that all Finesse builds outperform their Strength based counterpart. That isn't to say that all finesse builds are better than all Strength ones, just that Fin 2H is better than STR 2H or Dagger/shield is better than STR 1H and shield... that kind of thing. A huge part of that being simply because Finesse armor is more useful than Strength armor if you're making good use of Evasion.

Though the reality is that many of the comparisons are very close such that finesse might be better, but its only just barely so. Mostly because Ranged > Melee to begin with, so if you're really looking to improve effectiveness Bow > all (except magic of course).

[Stormwind]

Ah ok, I have never tried a finesse based warrior...something to do on the next run!

[Amix]

Originally posted by Stormwind:

Thanks all!

I didnt know about blessed clouds, will try that out. So they stay invisible even when they leave the cloud?

Question about the spear....I havent really seen justification for that...I either use strength melee 2hander, or if finesse I go with daggers for backstabs. Under what circumstances are you using a spear? They are all finesse right? Does it out damage backstab?

Blessed smoke cloud stays effective till 2 turns. After two turns it becomes normal smoke, at that time you can bless it again to turn into blessed smoke cloud. One who enters in blessed smoke cloud & then leaves remains invisible for 1 turn only. Some enemies have given really smart tactic, they will enter in blessed smoke cloud & will perform (whirlwind) mostly they are warrior enemies, as this happened to me twice.
There is also Blessed smoke cloud skill which can be obtained through combining (aerotheurge+scoundrel) skillbook, at least one of them should be sourcery skillbook. This skill consumes two memory slots, & requires 2 source point & 1 AP. But I will rather go for smoke grenade+ bless. Or smoke cover+bless.

[Palumtra]

Go high ground as a ranger/caster, after attacking smoke prevents enemy ranged characters to directly target you with their attacks and skills, AoE can still hit you tho. You can also use Bless on the smoke cloud causing it to grant invisibility to those who stand/come into it (this includes enemies too, this is the easiest way to steal from merchants in the city). Combining an Aero and Scoundrel skillbook gives you a smoke creating skill, source version creates blessed smoke cloud.

[gregfromthepeg]

Originally posted by Stormwind:

Ah ok, I have never tried a finesse based warrior...something to do on the next run!

Chaoslink summed up the spear pretty well. I will add that getting decent spears later in Act 1 is rare. Once you grow past the Bracuus level 2 spear, they are rare. So I have sometimes used strength for my warrior in Act 1, then convert to FIN in act 2. Even early Act 2 can suck for finding properly leveled spears. A point in huntsman with a bow as a backup is also a way to mitigate the lack of spears early on.

Cleave is absolutely the best bonus to search for on spears. In the right position, the range makes it almost like a second whirlwind.

The range increase sometimes saves a full AP on ypur first turn as well, as you don't have to move nearly as much.