Conjurer build

[dodger]

I've created a conjurer, and so far just at level 2. I was thinking to go mage skills, probably pyro/geo, to supplement and increase the power of my summons. But, I ran across advice yesterday that this approach becomes weak in later game, and summoners were better off in long term to build up some necro capabilities. I'm looking to find out the truch here, so I know what to do as I level up.

[danbjp]

The best way to play a summoner is max summoning first; you don't need attributes to help summons apart from infusions. I finished a Tactician game with a lvl 19 summon. I used support skills (a lot of them) and had pure summoning. Get farsight and power infusions first, then later you'll get shadow. Each infusion skillbook makes your summoning stronger and gives them extra abilities.

Your summoning lvl will also affect the power of your totems.

A good class for a phys summoner is elf as they have the innate blood sacrifice skill and if you cast a summon on blood it gets the mosquito swarm skill. If you cast it on water it has water attacks.

No spells will make your summons stronger – only 'infusion' skill books that you can buy or steal from Nebora vendor in fort joy.

GL

[Chaoslink]

Yeah, last thing you want to do on a summoner is take anything but summoning. Go full summoning until you can’t invest into it anymore. Keep in mind that you don’t have any required attributes for summoning. It only scales off the summoning skill. Archers generally are the most useful without skills for their class, so pumping Finesse and using a bow will make your summoner more useful when there is nothing else to do. You’ll also gain access to elemental arrows that can create surfaces to summon off of. It’s not until after you’ve maxed summoning that you’ll want to invest into anything else.

Getting stats on gear can help make you useful in the meantime, but replace it with summoning gear should you find it.

The reason people say summoning falls off later on is because of the lack of scaling attributes. As soon as you’ve hit 10 in summoning, that’s it. You’re basically at maximum and the incarnates you summon from then on will only get weaker relative to the enemy each time you level up. Usually other builds surpass the summoner in power by around level 12-14.

That doesn’t mean summoning is bad or that you shouldn’t use it, it just means that you’ll feel powerful for awhile, but eventually things start to feel a bit harder.

Summoners do make good tanks though since they’re the only class in the game that can justify having any CON invested whatsoever. Though doing so means you’ll only want supporting spells and abilities as you won’t have the three main attributes stacked for damage.

[Pyromus]

You will get summoning maxed around level 8 if done right, maybe level 9. After that, 3 points in pyro, 2 in warfare, 2 in geo, and 2 in scoundrel will give you all damage buffs available to your summons.

2geo/scoundrel will let you use venomous aura, granting more poison damage to incarnates

2warfare/pyro will let you use master of sparks, which adds a fiery spark that will bounce from enemies when incarnate attacks.

3 in pyro gives you firebrand, but it is only purchasable after level 16, and it grants fire damage to all attacks.

You will also be able to use standard buffs like peace of mind, haste, encourage, etc. Keep in mind, you can get all of these values from gear, and may not actually need to invest in them upon leveling up, and if you get good gear with them, you can respec out of those skills when gear covers it.

Necro is good for summoners, as if your incarnate dies, a bone widow is the next best thing, and scales off of summoning skill. Also, necro's basic final skill is a mass totem summon, and they scale on your summoning skill. They will also get a LOT of use out of those aura buffs, but you will need apotheosis to use all that source in one turn.



Alternatively, you can focus on something like archery or a single element and just play like a normal character who happens to summon before battle for extra support.

[dodger]

OK, thanks very much, I did not know at all about infusion skills. That does leave me wondering, what attribute(s) to level up? Also, to the extent that it makes sense to do so, I suppose I will be using totems also. So, if that influences what I should do as I level up, please let me know details. I have *read* that my INT does nothing for the power of my incarnates and totems.

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by dodger:

I have *read* that my INT does nothing for the power of my incarnates and totems.

Yes. That is true. As I was saying above, attributes have no effects on summoning. So you can play with whatever weapons you like. You just don't want to take skills for those weapons until you max summoning and use the associated attribute for the weapon you chose.

[dodger]

OK, thanks very much for all the replies and information.

[Syrris]

It's not unusual to go with a full support summoner - there are lots of spell skills that are effective party support with 1-2 ranks in each school, none of which depend on stats for effectiveness, and those work just as well on other party members as on the summons. If it's your main character then Wits might be your best bet as an attribute - the crit chance boost may not be as big a deal, but it guarantees the top initiative spot, and since the main character will typically be the one focusing on Persuade, they'll be able to make effective use of the Wits options in dialogues, something that most others can't (and which often seem to be better than the Str/Dex/Int ones, or at least less likely to backfire).

[Thaxlsyssilyaan]

Originally posted by davemytnick33:

Necro is good for summoners, as if your incarnate dies, a bone widow is the next best thing

The Flesh golem that explode can be devastating with the summoner "Surcharge", double damage on explosion, even more with that pyro spell that add explosion on death, dont remember the name.

Another nice combo i have on my deathknight summoner, which is undead, is Shackles of pain and eating diners with 5 star diner perk. I does like 40% of my HP in damage to the skackles target, and since summoner can invest into con, it does a lot of damage for 1 AP. And with necromancy, i even heal part of that huge damage, which make i do not lose that whole 40% HP myself.

[Pyromus]

Originally posted by FRThaxlsyssilyaan:

Originally posted by davemytnick33:

Necro is good for summoners, as if your incarnate dies, a bone widow is the next best thing

The Flesh golem that explode can be devastating with the summoner "Surcharge", double damage on explosion, even more with that pyro spell that add explosion on death, dont remember the name.

Flaming crescendo. 3 AP nuke on both armors.

[pleasenoname3]

It's best to boost summoning to 10 for the stat boosts for the conjured creatures .
A 3 in Geomancer gives you a poison summon (hungry flower) summon (costs one source point).
You can use wands to create different element puddles on the ground to summon your incarnate on. Wands are intelligence based weapons

[Draconiya]

Originally posted by pleasenoname3:

It's best to boost summoning to 10 for the stat boosts for the conjured creatures .
A 3 in Geomancer gives you a poison summon (hungry flower) summon (costs one source point).
You can use wands to create different element puddles on the ground to summon your incarnate on. Wands are intelligence based weapons

As soon as you can get them, infusions (elemental infusions, change incarnate element regardless of surface) are superior to surfaces created by wands, because wand attacks take 2 AP, while infusions (except those that use source points) only take 1 AP.

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by Draconiya:

Originally posted by pleasenoname3:

It's best to boost summoning to 10 for the stat boosts for the conjured creatures .
A 3 in Geomancer gives you a poison summon (hungry flower) summon (costs one source point).
You can use wands to create different element puddles on the ground to summon your incarnate on. Wands are intelligence based weapons

As soon as you can get them, infusions (elemental infusions, change incarnate element regardless of surface) are superior to surfaces created by wands, because wand attacks take 2 AP, while infusions (except those that use source points) only take 1 AP.

Thing is, just like mage’s elemental affinity, the character needing it shouldn’t be setting it up themselves. They should be relying on an ally for that. As long as the attack that sets it up is used offensively, then it’s effectively 0AP.

[Pyromus]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

Originally posted by Draconiya:

As soon as you can get them, infusions (elemental infusions, change incarnate element regardless of surface) are superior to surfaces created by wands, because wand attacks take 2 AP, while infusions (except those that use source points) only take 1 AP.

Thing is, just like mage’s elemental affinity, the character needing it shouldn’t be setting it up themselves. They should be relying on an ally for that. As long as the attack that sets it up is used offensively, then it’s effectively 0AP.

If they are playing a summoner correctly, it should be summoned pre combat, so it will be straight up 0AP.


Element infusions should be saved for the cursed variants, as they are far superior and not able to be replicated by surfaces (without mods).

[fragonard]

Element infusions should be saved for the cursed variants, as they are far superior and not able to be replicated by surfaces (without mods).

I second that. At level 10, my Cursed Electric Incarnate was doing over 800 damage with his opening attack, more than the rest of my party combined.

I was so impressed with that performance that I redid my party to all summoners. Kind of a mistake. Super powerful, most fights are over before everyone gets their turn, but slow and boring. If you just want an OP party though, give it a try.

[Pyromus]

Originally posted by fragonard:

Element infusions should be saved for the cursed variants, as they are far superior and not able to be replicated by surfaces (without mods).

I second that. At level 10, my Cursed Electric Incarnate was doing over 800 damage with his opening attack, more than the rest of my party combined.

I was so impressed with that performance that I redid my party to all summoners. Kind of a mistake. Super powerful, most fights are over before everyone gets their turn, but slow and boring. If you just want an OP party though, give it a try.

ehhhh, I wouldn't say that. You're at 10, so that's the point where summoners aren't quite dropping off, but 1-2 levels more and you'll be performing less and less effectively that way. Once a party member can use closed circuit, they can out damage an incarnate's circuit by a lot with equal aero/summon investment.