Recommendations for magic pairing to Necromancy

[Zethren527]

This has probably been discussed somewhere before, but I've skimmed through so many places which have only ever said "go Warfare" that I'm a little fatigued. I've also seen people mention dual wield (Scoundrel) and Necro, but I wanna go range and the bow just doesn't feel right since I don't want my bonuses to require me to always find higher ground. Basically, I'm curious what magic skill pairings would do well with Necromancy.

I've seen pairings of Hydro and Air or people saying to use Geo if you're Undead, but I'm curious what magical skill to specialize in if my off spec is Necro. I figure Air might be good because I think Blood surfaces generate Shock just like water, but I'm curious to hear some recommendations.

[Zethren527]

I know Warfare increases some Necro damage, but I also know that Int does as well and I'm looking for a more Intelligence based build for that more "classic mage"/warlock feel. IDK if I'm going to be focusing on making sure I Decay everything before I try to kill it (at least, not early game). Essentially, I wanna be the Black Mage not the Dark Cleric.

Hydro is nice and the fact that you don't necessarily need Int for it helps a bunch, but I'm not looking to heal enemies to death. I'm not going to be playing this run on an especially hard difficulty and I mostly just wanna know what is a nice combo for that Mage RP while using Necro to supplement.

My second character was a "Death Knight" so I've done the whole "stab and drink their blood" thing with Warfare. That was my powergame and I'm thinking of making a more chill RP experience that still works well.

Kinda just wanna know which of Fire, Water, Air, or Geo pairs well with Necro. I know a lot of enemies are resistant/immune to Pyro stuff so I'm wary of it. Hydro is cool, but I'd probably use it more for the damage spells and emergency heals on allies. Air seems nifty, but I've yet to use it a lot and get the impression a lot of it is CC. Geo sounds fun, but I'm worried about Poison since I won't be Undead this run (unless people HIGHLY recommend it).

[CHAO$$$]

One of the less obvious combos with necro is geomancer+elf racial.

The elemental affinity talent allows you to cast spells for 1 ap less when stading in a surface of that element.

elf racial -> gives 1 AP + damage bonus + creates a pool of blood under your feet -> spam necro spells for 1 AP less.
The poison spell "contaminate" costs 1 AP and turns all water/blood surfaces in a medium range around you to poison and hits targets standing in them + enemies with poison damage (this will hit you as well but because magic armor is abundant for mages you wont care).
Then you stand on a poison surface and get to cast geomancer spells for 1 AP less -> spam those.

This is not super optimal since poison surfaces in general are prone to getting blown up with fire (again you dont really care because you should have enough magic armor) and contaminate itself has some problems when there are things like torches around (resulting in random unintended explosions) but overall its a pretty neat combo.

In addition Geomancer has great CC and poison spells allow you to heal undead companions.

Its not the most optimal thing to do but its pretty good if you dont want to pick up hydro. Hydro in general is just a little bit on the strong side at no additional cost.

Air is kinda ♥♥♥♥♥ in my opinion (except teleport and pressure spike) because there is no cost efficient way to set up elemental affinity for it and most of the aero spells are on the lower damage/AP side to begin with. On the plus side there are not many enemies resistant to air. Still not really worth past 2 points max for teleport(can get those from items).

[Azor]

Necro is physical, magic is magic. They don't combo.

they say "go warfare" because warfare multiplies physical damage and all necro skills deal physical damage.

[Zethren527]

Originally posted by lostgreencats:

Or are you more interested in the utility spells from Necro? I guess that's what you mean by using Necro to supplement?
In which case, yes, Aero/Hydro is a good combo in general. And you are right that blood surfaces do conduct electricity. Get your enemy bleeding and they have a puddle of electrifyable liquid that follows them around everywhere. The main difference from water that I can think of is that the blood doesn't make the enemies standing in it 'wet'.
Alternatively, Geo might be nice from a RP perspective. Poison, blood, curses, dark magic, that kind of thing. And several of the soft CC options from Geo are blocked by physical armour, so there could be some synergy with your Necro there (though not so much if you don't intend on using the Necro spells for damage).

Kind of what I was thinking. I am considering what amounts to a Warfare/Necro "Death Knight" build except at range and with magic. Probably using wands/wand+shield and having damage spells as heavy hitters and occasional CC+utility. I'm slightly under the impression that building a "pure damage" mage is nigh impossible without synergies, such as wet and shock, and or relying heavily on CC. I suppose I'm not opposed to that being a necessity, but if I can just go the "blow stuff up with massive fireballs" route then I'd love to be able to do that.

The Geo and Air suggestions seem like good fits and I suppose specing slightly into Hydro after a little progress could be beneficial. IDK, I feel that a lot of people are very into optimization when it comes to this game and me asking about an RP option that doesn't leave me in the dust is a little silly, lol.

Originally posted by be worry don't happy:

Necro is physical, magic is magic. They don't combo.

they say "go warfare" because warfare multiplies physical damage and all necro skills deal physical damage.

Dude, you can literally put a point into Intelligence and watch Necro damage go up. I can appreciate the confidence, but you seem slightly uninformed.

[Godwoken Dovahkiin]

How about Summon Necro?

Necro as offspec seems kinda meh unless it's summon, only support skills seem useful.

Bone Cage, Living on the Edge, Deathwish, Last Rites, Silencing Stare and Black Shroud.

If going for magic damage I guess Silencing Stare and Black Shroud could be used.

As far as what element to go:

Fire: Increases the damage of corpse explosion I think. Maybe deal some fire damage and then blind them with shroud or silence them with stare.

Water: Frozen blood slipping, physical heal damage, you can restore Magic armor and Armor.

Aero: Electrified blood but there's no reason to as rain is superior. Vacuum Aura + Black Shroud for silence and blind.

Geo: Super healing with undead, + bone cage armor scaling.

I don't see many reasons to have necro as off spec, unless it's for mages to have some physical damage or some supportive spells which there aren't many. It all depends on the plan, I personally was meaning to try Geo + Necro + Scoundrel, use some corrosive touch, impale and earthquake, goes well with Torturer for bleed, poison and worm tremor. Been trying to find a way to make a venom coating rogue since backstabs make the poison damage crit + Siphon Poison, could make a sort of battlemage type but mage rogue hybrid able to support physical damage dealers while also doing decent magic damage. Blood Rain + contaminate for Siphon poison, living on the edge for more damage since venom coat lacks some, decay + blood rain + blood suck cause why not.

[Azor]

Dude, you can literally put a point into Intelligence and watch Necro damage go up. I can appreciate the confidence, but you seem slightly uninformed.

What part of it makes me seem uninformed? Did I say necro doesn't scale with intelligence?

Originally posted by Godwoken Dovahkiin:

Fire: Increases the damage of corpse explosion I think.

It deals physical damage and therefore does not scale with pyrokinectic. It scales with Warfare, and probably intelligence too.

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by CHAO$$$:

One of the less obvious combos with necro is geomancer+elf racial.

The elemental affinity talent allows you to cast spells for 1 ap less when stading in a surface of that element.

elf racial -> gives 1 AP + damage bonus + creates a pool of blood under your feet -> spam necro spells for 1 AP less.
The poison spell "contaminate" costs 1 AP and turns all water/blood surfaces in a medium range around you to poison and hits targets standing in them + enemies with poison damage (this will hit you as well but because magic armor is abundant for mages you wont care).
Then you stand on a poison surface and get to cast geomancer spells for 1 AP less -> spam those.

This is not super optimal since poison surfaces in general are prone to getting blown up with fire (again you dont really care because you should have enough magic armor) and contaminate itself has some problems when there are things like torches around (resulting in random unintended explosions) but overall its a pretty neat combo.

In addition Geomancer has great CC and poison spells allow you to heal undead companions.

Its not the most optimal thing to do but its pretty good if you dont want to pick up hydro. Hydro in general is just a little bit on the strong side at no additional cost.

Air is kinda ♥♥♥♥♥ in my opinion (except teleport and pressure spike) because there is no cost efficient way to set up elemental affinity for it and most of the aero spells are on the lower damage/AP side to begin with. On the plus side there are not many enemies resistant to air. Still not really worth past 2 points max for teleport(can get those from items).

This pretty much sums up what I'd recommend. You'll find Geo to be the best pairing to Necro from a mage standpoint. I'd consider a little bit of Pyro too, just for the instances where the poison at your feet does get set aflame. You can just transition to Pyro spells in that case. There are fights where you'll want fire as well, like the voidwoken bugs in Wreckers cave.

Originally posted by be worry don't happy:

Necro is physical, magic is magic. They don't combo.

they say "go warfare" because warfare multiplies physical damage and all necro skills deal physical damage.

Magic and physical can combo plenty well. Being adaptable is good as long as there's a team to play off of.

Originally posted by Zethren527:

I know Warfare increases some Necro damage, but I also know that Int does as well and I'm looking for a more Intelligence based build for that more "classic mage"/warlock feel. IDK if I'm going to be focusing on making sure I Decay everything before I try to kill it (at least, not early game). Essentially, I wanna be the Black Mage not the Dark Cleric.

Warfare doesn't just add *some* damage. It adds *the most* damage per point comparatively to literally anything. It is the best point investment for literally everything looking to harm enemies with physical damage. Full nailbomb-only build? Warfare. Nothing comes close. So if you want the Necro side of your build to be dealing damage, you want Warfare. Especially early on, Necro doesn't offer many damage spells. You need to get the most out of the ones there are and that'll require Warfare to do.

No matter how you look at it, Necro is a support skill until midgame. It is not a primary focus as it simply doesn't have a consistent output until you can start using source spells and its a one-trick-pony at best once you can. It is powerful, but it is repetitive. So you'll have to consider whatever you pick alongside it at least as equally focused as Necro. Geo takes that role. It has spells that focus physical in either damage or status effect, sports many physical armor boosting effects and boosts the effectiveness of all physical armor buffs (including Necro bone armor) and is likely to be your best pairing.

You'll likely go Int armor with shield and what you use as a weapon won't matter much. Hydro can be a good addition too, but mainly if you plan on using healing to hurt things.

Your team is going to be important too though. I recommend building an elemental ranger to go alongside this as (aside from it being basically the best build to begin with) it can switch seamlessly from a physical focus to a magic focus or even go dual and deal both simultaneously without sacrificing damage all that much. Beyond that, what you choose is up to you.

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by CHAO$$$:

Air is kinda ♥♥♥♥♥ in my opinion (except teleport and pressure spike) because there is no cost efficient way to set up elemental affinity for it and most of the aero spells are on the lower damage/AP side to begin with. On the plus side there are not many enemies resistant to air. Still not really worth past 2 points max for teleport(can get those from items).

For me, its all or nothing with Air. When I run Aero mages, I always run two. You have a third character that sets up the elemental affinity for you, using 1 AP for rain and 2AP for electric discharge, then following up with Haste on one of the mages. By doing this, you can effectively save more AP than it cost to set up and often get enough damage out to already have two or three enemies CC'd before turn two. It has to be stacked to be effective.

[Godwoken Dovahkiin]

Originally posted by be worry don't happy:

Originally posted by Godwoken Dovahkiin:

Fire: Increases the damage of corpse explosion I think.

It deals physical damage and therefore does not scale with pyrokinectic. It scales with Warfare, and probably intelligence too.

Weird, could've sword it does, there was a weird skill interaction that would do that, forgot what it was.

[Zethren527]

Originally posted by be worry don't happy:

Originally posted by be worry don't happy:

Necro is physical, magic is magic. They don't combo.

they say "go warfare" because warfare multiplies physical damage and all necro skills deal physical damage.

Dude, you can literally put a point into Intelligence and watch Necro damage go up. I can appreciate the confidence, but you seem slightly uninformed.

What part of it makes me seem uninformed? Did I say necro doesn't scale with intelligence? [/quote]
It was the fact that you stated Necro deals Physical damage and it was not magic. You separated the two and Intelligence increases magic damage. Therefore Necro = Magic. That is why I stated you seemed uninformed.

However, this topic is not about that.

Originally posted by Godwoken Dovahkiin:

I don't see many reasons to have necro as off spec, unless it's for mages to have some physical damage or some supportive spells which there aren't many.

It's, admittedly, primarily a flavor thing which adds some tankyness to the mage in bad situations. It makes it so if I do end up taking some damage I can heal myself passively and not need to rely on using actions specifically to heal.
You also mentioned Summoning which I enjoy. My first character was a pure summoner (until I dipped into Hydro for some heals and utility) and I loved it. I kinda wanna avoid going summons again especially considering that I want my character to be dealing damage themselves instead of going traditional necromancer with minions. Though, I'll consider it if nothing else pans out. I appreciate the suggestion!

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

No matter how you look at it, Necro is a support skill until midgame. It is not a primary focus as it simply doesn't have a consistent output until you can start using source spells and its a one-trick-pony at best once you can. It is powerful, but it is repetitive. So you'll have to consider whatever you pick alongside it at least as equally focused as Necro. Geo takes that role. It has spells that focus physical in either damage or status effect, sports many physical armor boosting effects and boosts the effectiveness of all physical armor buffs (including Necro bone armor) and is likely to be your best pairing.

You'll likely go Int armor with shield and what you use as a weapon won't matter much. Hydro can be a good addition too, but mainly if you plan on using healing to hurt things.

Your team is going to be important too though. I recommend building an elemental ranger to go alongside this as (aside from it being basically the best build to begin with) it can switch seamlessly from a physical focus to a magic focus or even go dual and deal both simultaneously without sacrificing damage all that much. Beyond that, what you choose is up to you.

Definetly something to consider. I've always planned on using Necro as the "support skill for my character, but primarily in an offensive capacity and to augment another school of magic. The case for Geo is pretty strong since, if I'm Intelligence based, I'll need more Physical armor. Poison does also seem an interesting choice even if it does mean I'll need to be a tad more careful around the battlefield. Ele Ranger does sound like a good team member option. I do plan on having two front line combatants, but wan't thinking too much on the fourth member. That can definitely compliment my "dark mage". I'll definitely take this into consideration.

Much appreciated!

[Chaoslink]

Just to clarify, Necro is magic that deals physical damage. It is still magic however, as the abilities cannot be dodged just like fireballs or other magic abilities. INT scales it the same way STR scales a weapon swing. The difference is that you don't have a base weapon damage and only work with the base damage the spells have. Still, the 5% damage boost from Warfare is worth more damage than the 5% from Intelligence. Just in case explanation is needed...

Lets say you have Mosquito Swarm and for simplicity sake, it deals exactly 100 damage. You have 20 INT and 10 Warfare on one setup and 30 INT on another, lets say you got it through Poly, though this is more about numbers than a real example. In the 30 INT situation, you're looking at 5% per point for a total of 150% damage. That makes your final hit deal 250 damage. Additively, the 20 INT 10 Warfare situation also has 150%. However, the game doesn't calculate it that way. Instead, you take the 100% from the 20 INT and apply that to the base damage, getting 200. Then the 50% from Warfare is applied to that product, making it effectively add another 100, instead of 50. So all INT would net you 250 damage while Warfare nets you 300 damage in the end. As levels scale and these numbers increase, the effect from Warfare becomes much more significant. This is why Warfare is pushed so hard.

[Godwoken Dovahkiin]

Originally posted by Zethren527:

Originally posted by Godwoken Dovahkiin:

I don't see many reasons to have necro as off spec, unless it's for mages to have some physical damage or some supportive spells which there aren't many.

It's, admittedly, primarily a flavor thing which adds some tankyness to the mage in bad situations. It makes it so if I do end up taking some damage I can heal myself and not need to rely on using actions specifically to heal.
You also mentioned Summoning which I enjoy. My first character was a pure summoner (until I dipped into Hydro for some heals and utility) and I loved it. I kinda wanna avoid going summons again especially considering that I want my character to be dealing damage themselves instead of going traditional necromancer with minions. Though, I'll consider it if nothing else pans out. I appreciate the suggestion!

You will love Bloated Corpse + Super Charger + Teleport, deals a lot of damage and can set up blood for your incarnate/totems. You can make him a support with stuns for your incarnate, set up blood rain aoe bleed and some OK damage with melee or ranged, int or str. I haven't tried this set up exactly but some chunks of it on different characters. Wish they added physical wands that threw some cursed blood or something that might inflict bleed or decay, would certainly give necromancers more versatility.

[Azor]

Originally posted by Godwoken Dovahkiin:

Originally posted by Zethren527:

It's, admittedly, primarily a flavor thing which adds some tankyness to the mage in bad situations. It makes it so if I do end up taking some damage I can heal myself and not need to rely on using actions specifically to heal.
You also mentioned Summoning which I enjoy. My first character was a pure summoner (until I dipped into Hydro for some heals and utility) and I loved it. I kinda wanna avoid going summons again especially considering that I want my character to be dealing damage themselves instead of going traditional necromancer with minions. Though, I'll consider it if nothing else pans out. I appreciate the suggestion!

You will love Bloated Corpse + Super Charger + Teleport, deals a lot of damage and can set up blood for your incarnate/totems. You can make him a support with stuns for your incarnate, set up blood rain aoe bleed and some OK damage with melee or ranged, int or str. I haven't tried this set up exactly but some chunks of it on different characters. Wish they added physical wands that threw some cursed blood or something that might inflict bleed or decay, would certainly give necromancers more versatility.

Speaking of supercharger...
https://www.twitch.tv/manithro/clip/TransparentGorgeousEagleCopyThis

tip: craft and spam skin graft + adrenaline + supercharger for the memes

[Pyromus]

Pyro would be nice. Corpse explosion is big damage, and mass corpse explosion is extra nice. Though both can harm allies. Also, raise bloated corpse + supercharger + flaming cescendo is 3 AP and will create a mobile bomb that does massive damage to both armor types

[Godwoken Dovahkiin]

Originally posted by Pyromus:

Pyro would be nice. Corpse explosion is big damage, and mass corpse explosion is extra nice. Though both can harm allies. Also, raise bloated corpse + supercharger + flaming cescendo is 3 AP and will create a mobile bomb that does massive damage to both armor types

Never thought about that. I kinda want to do that with a fire incarnate.