How does Murga get so many actions?

[Lokiwolf90]

Before I even got the chance to fight back, she immediately killed one of my team mates.

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by BenSt88:

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

I can't think of a single reason (outside + carry capacity) to go 1h/shield STR versus dagger/shield Finesse. The finesse route is simply better from every angle.

Can I confirm we're still talking about a Rogue, and not a different melee PC? I thought w/ Rogue it was best to go w/ DW daggers, regardless of whether you put pts into DW the skill. I could easily be wrong on that.

The reason I ask is that my R.P. is sword/board, Polymorph/Warfare, STR for carrying capacity + dmg (such as it is...), and I wanted to make sure you weren't saying dagger/shield + Finesse + Scoundrel is what a 1-h. weapon build should be for melee types.

Rogues do more damage going dual wield, but that extra damage is only 50% of the damage boost that the off hand weapon gives. However, a "rogue" can use a shield as well, performing the same function as a sword and board but with a much better damage output, more abilities and the like. You still go finesse for damage scaling and all that, its just better than the sword and board concept. There's pretty much no reason ever to use a str weapon and a shield. They're just weak, and a dagger and shield does all the same things, but better.

[BenSt88]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

Originally posted by BenSt88:

Can I confirm we're still talking about a Rogue, and not a different melee PC? I thought w/ Rogue it was best to go w/ DW daggers, regardless of whether you put pts into DW the skill. I could easily be wrong on that.

The reason I ask is that my R.P. is sword/board, Polymorph/Warfare, STR for carrying capacity + dmg (such as it is...), and I wanted to make sure you weren't saying dagger/shield + Finesse + Scoundrel is what a 1-h. weapon build should be for melee types.

Rogues do more damage going dual wield, but that extra damage is only 50% of the damage boost that the off hand weapon gives. However, a "rogue" can use a shield as well, performing the same function as a sword and board but with a much better damage output, more abilities and the like. You still go finesse for damage scaling and all that, its just better than the sword and board concept. There's pretty much no reason ever to use a str weapon and a shield. They're just weak, and a dagger and shield does all the same things, but better.

Interesting. I believe you're saying the only efficient/optimal melee build, using STR (assuming you want 1 PC, avatar or not, to be able to enjoy + carrying capacity)...is a 2-H. weapon wielder. Though maybe we're just talking about pure dmg dealer. If so, I should clarify that I wanted my Red Prince to be sort-of-tanky (and that's been working so far; I just hit 12th l.) as well as a dmg dealer.

What I don't think you're saying is that I should simply respec my R. Prince from STR to Finesse, and swap Warfare for Scoundrel, say. Though I think I should respec my 2 pts in Single-Handed into Warfare for slightly more dmg at least.

EDIT: If we're really talking about my DW Sebille "rogue", instead of my sword/board R. Prince, then you're suggesting dagger/shield > 2 daggers & DW? I must admit I've been enjoying my dodge capabilities w/ maxed DW, even though my dmg output is nothing to write home about at the moment. I was going to focus full bore on Scoundrel next.

Sorry if I'm clouding the waters here.

[Chaoslink]

I mean, I'm not telling you to switch to anything at all. I'm just telling you that in an efficiency situation, there's no reason to run a STR based tank with 1H/shield when a FIN based tank with dagger/shield will do the same job, but better. If raw efficiency to handle Tactician or something isn't what you're after, then its not really important.

However, I'm not necessarily saying that the only STR based build for efficiency is a 2H. Because Finesse based spears are a 2H build that can be built to overall perform better than the STR ones. Arguably, the only STR build I can think of that would theoretically outperform the direct Finesse counterpart is a dual weapons STR build. Thing is, the only way I can see that working is by getting dual cleave 1H (rare as is) and using those alongside sparking swings. If you line 3 enemies up so all three can be hit by the cleave, then a regular attack using sparking swings would create 6 sparks, one for each enemy multiplied by 2 weapons. Cluster enough enemies together and maximize your AP, and you could be creating something like 24 sparks per turn. Makes me laugh that what I'd consider the best STR build to outperform Finesse, is a magic damage build. This is literally only because daggers can't cleave.

Note, overall performance doesn't necessarily mean just damage. Spears don't necessarily deal more damage. Though they can depending on the circumstances.

[baggybaf]

Originally posted by Emphasized:

I gotta disagree on the rogue being a "closer" and going last (in my experience). I've found that if my rogue has low wits, she usually gets hard focused in the first few enemy moves and get completely wrecked before she can move. I tend to at least give them enough wits to have a decent/good initiative, have her buff herself (clear mind, encourage etc), position herself in the enemy backline (mages/archers etc) and go invis with enough ap left to have max ap+adrenaline next turn to nuke at least one target without being hit. After that just have her evade or Skin Graft+invis again and reposition, rince repeat.
Then again, i might be a bit biased here 'cause i tend to put wits (not focus on, but give a what i concider a decent amount) on all my characters bacause i simply cant stand having no initiative or crit chance.I know you get crit chance without the wits, but a character without at least 20/25 base wits around end act 3 just doesnt feel right to me.

without wanting to be mean, from what I read, you didn’t understand how the initiative works in a fight.
apart from the first fighter, the initiative determines the order of passage of your teammates in a fight but has no influence on the order with the opponent.
after you have the right to put a rogue in initiator or in third position (after the turn of the opponent) but you do not necessarily need a lot of initiative for that: You just need your rogue to have more initiative than your teammates
For the crit chance ok it’s a choice but don’t talk about initiative

[SenMithrarin85]

stick a source orb in a necklace, cast evasive aura just before the conversation with the raucus one ends, and you'll dodge every one of her opening attacks when the fight starts :D