Lone wolf nerf in patch notes - someone explain

[You know my name.]

Lone Wolf nerfs (can't increase attributes and combat abilities past 40 or 10 respectively anymore).


Am i misunderstanding this, can you not put in more then 10 points overall and then itll get doubled to 20 still or is it implying you cant put in more then 5 points and the double will max at 10 on ability points? this seems like a severe hindrance more then anything or am i just stupid because now it seems you will basically be a jack of trades now with this limit.

[Hobocop]

Why not? You'll still hit skillcaps faster than non-Lone Wolf and can pump other ability schools for more versatility.

[Gilgamesh]

It was way too broken on 8 action point + elf + time warp+ execution and any other AP gain talent of your choice, you essentially have infinite supply of APs, im glad this issue was finally addressed.

[You know my name.]

Publicado originalmente por Hobocop:

Why not? You'll still hit skillcaps faster than non-Lone Wolf and can pump other ability schools for more versatility.

My thoughts are more or less that your right you can pump up other abilities correct but what if im going a full mage build but since i cant increase intelligence after 40 why would i want to spec in str? sures yea i could grab more skills and use those but again what if im using a wand or i need more memory slots since i have so many different things to pull skills from well again memory is limited to. Just seems like a immense amount of changes will be needed instead of focusing ont he school and stats you wanted now is my issue. Im sure there will be builds that can work around it thou i just dont see the point of nerfing this with a hard cap just make a soft cap is more what i would have like to have seen but i know a mod will change this later on anyways.

[You know my name.]

Publicado originalmente por LoL:

It was way too broken on 8 action point + elf + time warp+ execution and any other AP gain talent of your choice, you essentially have infinite supply of APs, im glad this issue was finally addressed.

Why i do agree that it was broken i still think it could have been changed to a soft cap i dont want to dip points into a branch that i clearly dont want anything to do with is my issue but this will hopefully expand upon making new builds at least.

[Qiox]

Publicado originalmente por GorillaB:

Sure:

Publicado originalmente por from patch notes:

Lone Wolf abilities and attributes are now capped at normal caps

Currently Lone Wolves can increase attributes and combat abilities through soft caps of 40 and 10 points respectively. In Definitive Edition, this is blocked: double point bonus only brings points to the cap and not above it.

The way I read these notes, the bonus stops when you get to 40 but it's not a hard cap. They specifically mention a soft cap in the first sentence and don't reference that it is changed. Rather the notes suggest the double bonus only applies up to the cap at which point the "double bonus" stops; not necessarily your stat gains. This would imply it will be single point gains after 40, per attribute.

I can see how this can be ambiguous. I guess we'll have to wait until someone tests it. Easy to do with a mod.

Soft cap is the highest point you can reach with direct investment. The only way to go above a soft cap is with item bonuses and temp bonuses from spells and consumable items.

In DE, a lone wolf can only invest 5 points in a skill, giving you rank 10 in that skill. This is the same soft cap reached by non lone wolf characters. But they have to invest 10 points to reach rank 10.

Both lone wolf and non lone wolf characters can go above 10 with item bonuses and/or temp bonuses.

The same applies to attributes, with the soft cap at 40.

[rooted]

Publicado originalmente por Caretaker:

Publicado originalmente por Sid Icarus:

Pretty sure you just can't surpass the 40 stat point cap.

Well this is going to ♥♥♥♥ up so many lone wolf builds that it literally might just be better to always party up.

Let's be honest, Lone Wolf was super broken in the first place. If not for lone wolf a single character run would've meant something on Tactician.

[You know my name.]

Publicado originalmente por Qiox:

Publicado originalmente por GorillaB:

Sure:



The way I read these notes, the bonus stops when you get to 40 but it's not a hard cap. They specifically mention a soft cap in the first sentence and don't reference that it is changed. Rather the notes suggest the double bonus only applies up to the cap at which point the "double bonus" stops; not necessarily your stat gains. This would imply it will be single point gains after 40, per attribute.

I can see how this can be ambiguous. I guess we'll have to wait until someone tests it. Easy to do with a mod.

Soft cap is the highest point you can reach with direct investment. The only way to go above a soft cap is with item bonuses and temp bonuses from spells and consumable items.

In DE, you can only invest 5 points in a skill, giving you rank 10 in that skill. This is the same soft cap reached by non lone wolf characters. But they have to invest 10 points to reach rank 10.

Bone lone wolf and non lone wolf characters can go above 10 with item bonuses and/or temp bonuses.

The same applies to attributes, with the soft cap at 40.

So then your lone wolf talent wont go above the soft cap but does that mean your direct invesments still would so if you invested 10 you would stop at 15? or would the 10 diminish the lone wolf effect to 0 leaving you at 10 still meaning investing anything over 5 is useless.

[You know my name.]

Publicado originalmente por rooted:

Publicado originalmente por Caretaker:

Well this is going to ♥♥♥♥ up so many lone wolf builds that it literally might just be better to always party up.

Let's be honest, Lone Wolf was super broken in the first place. If not for lone wolf a single character run would've meant something on Tactician.

I dont disagree it was broken i just think a diminishing return of sorts would have been better then just a complete limit is all. I my issue is just being forced to invest in any other branch that i dont want is kinda dumb to me personally. Make it where after 10 my lone wolf stops doubling and just gives one point or something, ♥♥♥♥ if i know anything about gaming. Im sure there will be more patches later down the road thou to make more changes.

[Stabbey]

Publicado originalmente por Caretaker:

My thoughts are more or less that your right you can pump up other abilities correct but what if im going a full mage build but since i cant increase intelligence after 40 why would i want to spec in str? sures yea i could grab more skills and use those but again what if im using a wand or i need more memory slots since i have so many different things to pull skills from well again memory is limited to.

Maybe you don't want to spec into STR. But you could pump some into MEM so you have a ton of skills, or take the Savage Sortelige Talent and pump Wits for increased Critical Chance.

Publicado originalmente por Caretaker:

So then your lone wolf talent wont go above the soft cap but does that mean your direct invesments still would so if you invested 10 you would stop at 15? or would the 10 diminish the lone wolf effect to 0 leaving you at 10 still meaning investing anything over 5 is useless.

You literally will be unable to invest more than 5 points.

[Drago]

Then lone wolf is designed for people what don't wish to control 4 chars, it's boring and fights last even longer and some are already just stupid. Given the fact they now force people to play with 4 chars and the fact this is an addon not a new game (Making it now 56GB as you have 2 games installed) I don’t think I’ll bother.

[You know my name.]

Publicado originalmente por Stabbey:

Publicado originalmente por Caretaker:

My thoughts are more or less that your right you can pump up other abilities correct but what if im going a full mage build but since i cant increase intelligence after 40 why would i want to spec in str? sures yea i could grab more skills and use those but again what if im using a wand or i need more memory slots since i have so many different things to pull skills from well again memory is limited to.

Maybe you don't want to spec into STR. But you could pump some into MEM so you have a ton of skills, or take the Savage Sortelige Talent and pump Wits for increased Critical Chance.

Publicado originalmente por Caretaker:

So then your lone wolf talent wont go above the soft cap but does that mean your direct invesments still would so if you invested 10 you would stop at 15? or would the 10 diminish the lone wolf effect to 0 leaving you at 10 still meaning investing anything over 5 is useless.

You literally will be unable to invest more than 5 points.

I thought of that on my first post i just cant see a few builds where i rather not waste a talent to increase wits. Yea again memory i understood but im still limited to so much AP per turn and certain skills im going to use over others but yes having more verstality isnt bad but i also did the math that you can max con memroy and wits with lone wolf and still have 10-23 points still left over meaning u could max any attribute for damge your doing and then you have more to waste. Yea late game wont matter so much i just dont agree that your left over points literally are being dumped into something that isnt going to help you with your build is all. Althou its late game so at that point it probably doesnt matter anymore. Okay so no more then 5 thank you that explains it better.

[You know my name.]

Publicado originalmente por DrAgO:

Then lone wolf is designed for people what don't wish to control 4 chars, it's boring and fights last even longer and some are already just stupid. Given the fact they now force people to play with 4 chars and the fact this is an addon not a new download 56GB I don’t think I’ll bother.

well im still not sure why ppl are complaining about the size of the download honestly unless your pc is garbage then i guess it makes sense. I do agree thou that a 4 player party will more an likely be better and offer more versatility for the builds you wanted rather then being a jack of all trades with 100 skills but still only being able to use a few per turn, I dont think it will be forced im sure you can still beat the game on lone wolf althou its going to be much harder now so im sure some ppl will like this or maybe they will later do some more patches on things who knows.

[Imyo]

Attributes cap at 40 with or without lone wolf, period, same for skills they cap at 10, period, after that you can equip gear to increase the number further, but not with points, thats what they said in the blog or whatever is called that web. Didnt test it myself but if thats the case then lone wolf is exclusive to hybrid builds, or, versatility, but not power like it was before, you still get more AP and defences so there is that.

[Zepade]

Publicado originalmente por Caretaker:

Publicado originalmente por Hobocop:

Why not? You'll still hit skillcaps faster than non-Lone Wolf and can pump other ability schools for more versatility.

My thoughts are more or less that your right you can pump up other abilities correct but what if im going a full mage build but since i cant increase intelligence after 40 why would i want to spec in str? sures yea i could grab more skills and use those but again what if im using a wand or i need more memory slots since i have so many different things to pull skills from well again memory is limited to. Just seems like a immense amount of changes will be needed instead of focusing ont he school and stats you wanted now is my issue. Im sure there will be builds that can work around it thou i just dont see the point of nerfing this with a hard cap just make a soft cap is more what i would have like to have seen but i know a mod will change this later on anyways.

well you can grab the magic can now crit talent and once your at max int start putting points into wit for more crit chance and lets say your a pyro/geo once they are maxed you can put points into 2h or rogue to get more crit multiplier with this you will do about the same or more damage than befor. or you can just get some con or put points into other stats to become a tank after maxing dmg. this makes it so you arnt just doing a super charged normal character your having a different charater than you would if you just did it with a party.

like take the one shot 2h necro build insted of all that str and points into 2h/necro you could move the 10 extra points to scround and warfare yes your healing will take a nerf but your still doing about the same dmg and you can pick to put points into wit or con depending for more dmg or tank.

mostly insted of raw dmg you gotta go crit to do the same but with this you will see different builds which i to enjoy. atm im doing a melee magic dmg build and befor i would have gome 20 pyro 20 2h with 2 war ect for stuff and it would just be a weaker version if i was in aparty

but now i can go 10 pyro 10 geo 10 2h 10 necro and my dmg will stay about the same since my fire dmg will be lower the geo covers it with venom wep i get necro which heals me now but i do lose some crit but i can just drop geo for scound and with this i have more abilties i can use outside of just fire/hits with my staff

[Stabbey]

Publicado originalmente por Caretaker:

I thought of that on my first post i just cant see a few builds where i rather not waste a talent to increase wits.

You have something better to invest in for your mages? I know that one of my complaints about this game was that there were very few good mage Talents.