Fane, Lohse, Red Prince and Sebille

[Sorceress]

Playing as Lohse, do you have suggestion build for others? Sebille is going to be some kind of rogue, Red Prince is Knight, Fane maybe Enchanter or Witch, Lohse is a metamorph.

[Dayve]

If you're playing on regular difficulty (not easy but not tactical or heroic either) then I can recommend the squad I'm using, which took me through Fort Joy no problem (Fort Joy is apparently the hardest part of the game except for some final battles)

My character was a custom human cleric. Hydrosophist and Necromancy. Very useful. Good healing and magic armour restore with hydrosophy, decent damage and utility (and self healing) with necromancy. You can use necromancy to raise a bloated corpse in battle and use it as a fifth party member. They also do pretty high damage when you explode them.

Red Prince was a 2-hander knight. Pure damage.

Sebille was a full rogue, pure rogue damage. As a rogue she'll be your highest damage doer. Use backlash to get behind enemies, hit them with flurry, use clear mind to boost your finnesse... massive damage.

Lohse was a summoner and I gave her the teleporting gloves. She summoned an incarnate and a totem, had the summoner healing spell (forgot what it's called), and used teleport to aid in battle.

With summoner and necromancy you can have 2 extra party members to control in battle, it's very very useful.

[General Income Tax]

It's not a good idea to have half your team doing physical damage and the other half doing magical damage. If a physical damage dealer does 20 damage, and a magic dealer does 20 damage, you've done a total of 20 damage to each armour type. Whereas if they were both doing physical or magic then you'd have done 40 damage to the respective armour.

[Fitcher]

Originally posted by Slippery Jack:

It's not a good idea to have half your team doing physical damage and the other half doing magical damage. If a physical damage dealer does 20 damage, and a magic dealer does 20 damage, you've done a total of 20 damage to each armour type. Whereas if they were both doing physical or magic then you'd have done 40 damage to the respective armour.

I havent completed the game but as much as this is true, you forgot to take note that mage type of enemies usually have a low p-armor while warrior type of enemies got a low m-armor.

Then there is the rogue/archer type of enemies who got pretty equal p-armor and m-armor.
If you focus them first then you should decide witch type of armor you can break down fast and then the other type of damage dealer should just focus on something else.

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by Slippery Jack:

It's not a good idea to have half your team doing physical damage and the other half doing magical damage. If a physical damage dealer does 20 damage, and a magic dealer does 20 damage, you've done a total of 20 damage to each armour type. Whereas if they were both doing physical or magic then you'd have done 40 damage to the respective armour.

Its actually the best way to go. Just don't have them focus the same enemy at the same time. All the number crunching people that say all one type is better than split are simply wrong. Its not better, its just significantly easier to be better at since its simple to pull off. Split parties make use of the enemy's weaknesses and have less overall armor to punch through. And many builds can have some level of physical/magic crossover that can allow them to support the other side if needed.

[meiam]

^ except you can't focus fire effectivly with split build, focus and CC is the name of the game. Most fight have one scary guys and plenty of little crap, you want to perma CC and kill the scary guy first, split party can't do anywhere near as well as focus party.

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by meiam:

^ except you can't focus fire effectivly with split build, focus and CC is the name of the game. Most fight have one scary guys and plenty of little crap, you want to perma CC and kill the scary guy first, split party can't do anywhere near as well as focus party.

Eh, I never had an issue. Most of my team is beefy enough to take the hits and two members focus fire on the one they need to most and I'm fine.

[Cynteara]

Originally posted by meiam:

^ except you can't focus fire effectivly with split build, focus and CC is the name of the game. Most fight have one scary guys and plenty of little crap, you want to perma CC and kill the scary guy first, split party can't do anywhere near as well as focus party.

After several tactician playthroughs, I can say that you can focus your fire pretty easily. With a 4 player setup, having 2 casters (ideally 1 pyro/Geo and 1 Aero/hydro) as well as 2 high damage physicals is the ideal setup. You simply have your casters focus 1 Target and your physicals focus another. Your casters should be able to back up your melee with support abilities like regeneration, armor of frost, and fortify. A ranger will typically have quite a few elemental effect arrows on hand, and can put in some damage on the targets the mages are focusing, if a quick execute is needed.

On the other hand, you can pretty easily get away with stacking your party to be all physical or all magical. What you don't want to do.... Is have a 3/1 split favoring either. You will always have someone useless in a fight, short of them providing a high leadership bonus and buffing.

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by Cynteara:

having 2 casters (ideally 1 pyro/Geo and 1 Aero/hydro)

This is actually not the ideal. The better focus is having either Pyro/geo or Hydro/Aero. Not both. Aero (and hydro) use the wet status effect to amplify air (20%) and water (10%) damage as well as priming their CC effects, stun and frozen. Fire damage (and Geo surfaces when ignited) clear the wet status and remove the water surfaces that can be used either for elemental affinity or simply extra damage/shock status when shocked and prevents water from being frozen for slip CC. On the contrary, Water clears oil and poison surfaces that Geo uses for damage or CC and pyro uses for combo explosion damage. In addition, burning enemies take 10% additional fire damage. So the rain skill that Hydro/Aero mages rely on rather heavily would put out the burning status off enemies.

Basically, Hydro/Aero and Geo/Pyro mages are counter to one another and don't synergize with one another. You're better off with both mages taking the same school, I prefer Hydro/Aero since less enemies tend to resist both elements, so that both mages can focus the enemy and synergize with each other. If you spec one into mostly Aero and the other in mostly Hydro, they can each deal decent damage with their primary school while supporting the other with the lesser spec.

Its a more advanced tactic, but making sure your party synergizes not only their own skills, but to those of the other party members is key to an effective team. Archers make a fantastic mage-friendly physical dealer due to their elemental arows. If you ever try a 3/1, you absolutely need an archer and someone of those 3 with summoning to some degree to get that magic damage in there. An elf summoner/necro damage would do it. Flesh sacrifice for blood to summon incarnates and necro for a heavy physical build, with the ability to get magic in there via summons. Its a complicated build, but I had it working until mid level 13ish before I gave up the save to play a co-op. Never went back though.

[Cynteara]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

Originally posted by Cynteara:

having 2 casters (ideally 1 pyro/Geo and 1 Aero/hydro)

This is actually not the ideal. The better focus is having either Pyro/geo or Hydro/Aero. Not both. Aero (and hydro) use the wet status effect to amplify air (20%) and water (10%) damage as well as priming their CC effects, stun and frozen.

I get what you are saying, and agree to an extent. If you are placing both casters in one school then yes Aero/Hydro is better.

Even with the ~10% difference in damage for being burning or being wet, you can still dish out a lot of damage when focusing, and can fully control a battlefield when splitting attention, keeping multiple enemies locked down. I personally prefer this to stacking one damage type, as:
The gear i find is more likely to benefit at least 1 party member.
Immune enemies can still be damaged by at least 1 mage
Geomancer allows the healing of undead allies, where hydro allows more healing for living.
Geomancer has different types of CC from hydro/aero, and can compliment you physical damage dealers in a pinch, with cripples and knockdowns.

I think i should mention i play with the enemy randomization mod, and this leads to a lot more elemental immune enemies. For vanilla play, the benefits between the two are pretty negligible to each other, and its more of a pick your poison deal. You can get away with most build types though, as long as you are actually using benefits that compliment each other (ive seen too many people casting without elemental affinty and far out man, shorter range expensive skills. Also, a few points in huntsman and 1 in scoundrel for a mage can lead to some huge damage numbers from high ground)

[meiam]

Originally posted by Cynteara:

Originally posted by meiam:

^ except you can't focus fire effectivly with split build, focus and CC is the name of the game. Most fight have one scary guys and plenty of little crap, you want to perma CC and kill the scary guy first, split party can't do anywhere near as well as focus party.

After several tactician playthroughs, I can say that you can focus your fire pretty easily. With a 4 player setup, having 2 casters (ideally 1 pyro/Geo and 1 Aero/hydro) as well as 2 high damage physicals is the ideal setup. You simply have your casters focus 1 Target and your physicals focus another. Your casters should be able to back up your melee with support abilities like regeneration, armor of frost, and fortify. A ranger will typically have quite a few elemental effect arrows on hand, and can put in some damage on the targets the mages are focusing, if a quick execute is needed.

On the other hand, you can pretty easily get away with stacking your party to be all physical or all magical. What you don't want to do.... Is have a 3/1 split favoring either. You will always have someone useless in a fight, short of them providing a high leadership bonus and buffing.

The point of focus fire is not to kill, the point of focus fire is to CC the dangerous guy. You want to strip away the armor on turn one, most difficult encounter have one really tough boss that does almost all the damage/CC and need to be CC asap. Most of them (when you fight them at level appropriate point) have a ton of armor that cannot be strip off using just 1-2 characters, hence why splitting doesn't have much advantages.

For example, I'm figthing Alison at the moment, she instant KO one of my guys and CC a second one, leaving me 2 guy to fight her off. I cannot afford her to have a second turn so I need to CC her right away, but if once of my guy is magical and one is physical that's not happening. So she get a second turn and wip my party.

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by meiam:

For example, I'm figthing Alison at the moment, she instant KO one of my guys and CC a second one, leaving me 2 guy to fight her off. I cannot afford her to have a second turn so I need to CC her right away, but if once of my guy is magical and one is physical that's not happening. So she get a second turn and wip my party.

Sounds more like you're not fighting this at the proper level, lack proper gear or aren't using a good comp/strategy for this fight. Its a hard one, but you really shouldn't be losing so many party members that quick.

[Cynteara]

Originally posted by meiam:

Originally posted by Cynteara:

After several tactician playthroughs, I can say that you can focus your fire pretty easily. With a 4 player setup, having 2 casters (ideally 1 pyro/Geo and 1 Aero/hydro) as well as 2 high damage physicals is the ideal setup. You simply have your casters focus 1 Target and your physicals focus another. Your casters should be able to back up your melee with support abilities like regeneration, armor of frost, and fortify. A ranger will typically have quite a few elemental effect arrows on hand, and can put in some damage on the targets the mages are focusing, if a quick execute is needed.

On the other hand, you can pretty easily get away with stacking your party to be all physical or all magical. What you don't want to do.... Is have a 3/1 split favoring either. You will always have someone useless in a fight, short of them providing a high leadership bonus and buffing.

The point of focus fire is not to kill, the point of focus fire is to CC the dangerous guy. You want to strip away the armor on turn one, most difficult encounter have one really tough boss that does almost all the damage/CC and need to be CC asap. Most of them (when you fight them at level appropriate point) have a ton of armor that cannot be strip off using just 1-2 characters, hence why splitting doesn't have much advantages.

For example, I'm figthing Alison at the moment, she instant KO one of my guys and CC a second one, leaving me 2 guy to fight her off. I cannot afford her to have a second turn so I need to CC her right away, but if once of my guy is magical and one is physical that's not happening. So she get a second turn and wip my party.

Alison is the one who KILLS YOUR SHINING LIGHTS, correct? She is a bit of an outlier when it comes to general tactics. She will almost always one shot someone (if not 2 people) in your party. She is a general pain altogether, and one tactician mode, deals high piercing damage each turn. To kill her usually requires some creative tactics. Ive found that sending someone in with a good polymorph skill and a couple source points works well. Hit them with the necro skill that prevents death, then send them in alone, keeping your allies out of combat. After she takers her turn, and nukes your first guy, who cant die, send in the rest of your team before the the next rounds of combat starts. It works best if you can sneak attack her with each new addition to the fight. Get her physical armor off, then hit her with forced exchange with your polymorph. Tap her once with anything physical and the fight is over.

[Cynteara]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

Originally posted by meiam:

For example, I'm figthing Alison at the moment, she instant KO one of my guys and CC a second one, leaving me 2 guy to fight her off. I cannot afford her to have a second turn so I need to CC her right away, but if once of my guy is magical and one is physical that's not happening. So she get a second turn and wip my party.

Sounds more like you're not fighting this at the proper level, lack proper gear or aren't using a good comp/strategy for this fight. Its a hard one, but you really shouldn't be losing so many party members that quick.

That fight is very difficult even with proper gear. She deals massive amounts of damage and is an absolute tank, with a high damage reflect. Killing her is difficult even when you are overleveled.

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by Cynteara:

That fight is very difficult even with proper gear. She deals massive amounts of damage and is an absolute tank, with a high damage reflect. Killing her is difficult even when you are overleveled.

You say that like I'm not aware. Yet if you take advantage of her weaknesses and come prepared, its really not that bad.