Thoughts on Retribution?

[Benjaminius]

I'm experimenting with a solo Lone Wolf blood-mage type build (melee and necro). Retribution seemed like a good fit since he's built to take damage and there aren't any other party members for enemies to attack. I've invested 6 points in it so far and, to be honest, it seems a bit lackluster at it's current level. Sure, that extra damage adds up over time, but it pales in comparison to the power of my standard attacks. I feel like those points could be better spent in Warfare or somewhere else. Has anyone played a character with 10+ retribution? How viable is it? With Lone Wolf, I could pump it up to 20 for 100% damage reflected, which sounds like it would be worth the points, but I'm not sure if the math holds up.

[Chaoslink]

From what I have seen, people use it with very tanky builds for solo lone wolf honor mode games. Since a melee and shield character doesn’t deal high damage by themselves, retribution is used to compensate. Additionally, I think it is also good for characters that you don’t want enemies to attack as the reflection might cause the AI to avoid attacking that character.

Personally, I’ve never built using it. Just some speculation and opinion based off a few videos I’ve seen using it.

[Zermerus]

I'm currently running a retribution run (based on the guide) and while it's fun, it's hard as hell, mainly because you put a lot into physical armor and not magic. So while it is a tanky build, you can still run into a lot of problems with enemies. But really this game is all about having fun any way you want, so try it out and go from there!

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by Zermerus:

I'm currently running a retribution run (based on the guide) and while it's fun, it's hard as hell, mainly because you put a lot into physical armor and not magic. So while it is a tanky build, you can still run into a lot of problems with enemies. But really this game is all about having fun any way you want, so try it out and go from there!

That’s part of the beauty of the game too. You don’t have to build certain ways. You can make anything work if you think about it hard enough. In a 4 man squad, I generally build with a memory main. The character is basically a Swiss Army knife who learns all the abilities they can. They play a sort of utility support role where they set up elemental affinity for my mages so they can open up on their first turn at full power. Then the support either heals but mostly buffs or focuses on applying statuses or cleaning up the battlefield. Basically anything that you don’t want to waste AP on, this character is built exactly for that. Turns out that it is incredibly effective. While the support deals no damage, my mages burst is higher since they don’t have to set up elemental affinity for themselves and once their armor is gone, the support character can harass them with blinds, roots, stuns or whatever else prevents them from being a threat. While it might seem more effective if I just did damage and killed them, I’m able to focus threats faster and pacify the enemy faster. Fights tend to be a bit longer overall, but also less dangerous.

[Revolucas]

I wouldn't try it myself, only because the main goal for me is not to get attacked in the first place by using CC, buffs and debuffs. I can't imagine that you can kill more than one enemy with it unless you are so unkillable that you wouldn't really need the skill to begin with.

Does that damage loop still exist or did they patch it? I think I remember something with Shakles of Pain, Retribution and decayed healing that would just hit in an infinite loop until the enemy died.

Though funnily if you made a Glass Cannon "tank" with Perserverance the only way they could do damage is probably through Retribution.

[Chaoslink]

Nah, the loop thing was patched. The nifty thing about glass cannon though, is if you make sure they’re not going to get CC’d before you have another character able to clear it, the status thing isn’t so bad. If that character is very tanky and has high initiative, you have them delay their turn while having a support character go last in your turn order. This guarantees the support goes right before the glass cannon and is able to clear whatever statuses they accumulate. Then the glass cannon gets to go as well as go again since they’re first in the next turn. If you mix that with the support being Fane and able to time warp the GC, they can then take a third turn. If your other two could lower armor enough on their turns, the GC can then use executioner and if all goes well you can get 6 extra AP (two per turn from execution procs). Add in adrenaline and skin graft (second adrenaline nullifies the skin graft cost), you get all your cool downs back for your last turn as well as 2 AP from adrenaline. All in all, you can have the Glass cannon get a whopping 26 AP in a row (27 with elven trait). And even if you don’t do that, rinse and repeat the turn delay strat and the GC won’t lose a turn to CC.

[Pyromus]

I'm also doing a solo run right now with it based loosely on SinTee's build (check out his youtube channel for some awesome solo honor runs). I just hit level 13 and maxed out retribution at 20, and with gear and bull horns, it's effectively at 24ish, so they are receiving 120% of their damage dealt as retribution damage. I say stick with it, and focus on shield/tentacle/bullrush for most of your damage. Yes, magic damage can hurt, but a lot of vendors sell armor of frost almost every level up and once enemies reach about half health, they stop attacking you. I have started using shackles of pain and purposely getting opportunity attacked to reflect 220% damage.

Stick with it, and although you use retribution as a damage source, don't be afraid to go invisible and delay turns if you need to heal or let shields up come off cooldown first. It is a slower run, but it is also very amusing and has a very different feel to other solo runs I've done (this is only my third) since you don't have to constantly invis/delay/uncanny evasion/delay.

Also, when you get to act 2, if you run up north to bloodmoon, you can buy level 15 armor from a dwarf when you are at level 9/10 still. Very useful on this run.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

From what I have seen, people use it with very tanky builds for solo lone wolf honor mode games. Since a melee and shield character doesn’t deal high damage by themselves, retribution is used to compensate. Additionally, I think it is also good for characters that you don’t want enemies to attack as the reflection might cause the AI to avoid attacking that character.

Personally, I’ve never built using it. Just some speculation and opinion based off a few videos I’ve seen using it.

So is this another of those skills that's more for Lone Wolf and not for a 4-man play?

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by Lampros:

So is this another of those skills that's more for Lone Wolf and not for a 4-man play?

4 man teams can still make use of it. Its just more powerful with lone wolf, as is literally everything.