Scoundrel Necromancer combo?

[Gwazi Magnum]

Basically how would you guys suggest building a Rogue that utilizes Necromancer so the backstabs are healing constant hit points?

I'm considering using Elemental Affinity as an Elf so that Necromancer skills would also get cheaper.

[Revolucas]

The optimal thing to do is just dump whatever is left over into Necromancy and Intelligence/Memory. That means along with maxing Finesse, you'll put points into Int since Dagger build doesn't need Wits and since you have Necromancy you really won't need Con.

You'll definitely need max Warfare, since it increases all Physical damage which will improve your dagger damage as well as physical necro spells. You'll definitely need max Scoundrel because you have 100% crit rate on backstabs.

I don't think it's possible to max 4 skills on character levels alone, so you may have to juggle points between Duel Wield and Necromancy depending on your gear.

Shackles of Pain will prevent enemies from attacking you while it's up. Grasp of the Starve should hit like a truck. Mosquito Swarm and Bone Cage will be decent. Then of course you'll have Living on the Edge and Death Wish, if you come close to dying!


Unless of course you don't want any casting ability and just want the healing then just put the rest of your points into Con. You are losing physical damage for the healing though as instead you may as well just go full Warfare/Scoundrel/DW for full melee. But where's the fun in that?

[wulfster42]

Honestly sounds like a good combo for a lone wolf tbh, as you'll have more max vitality, higher damage, and plenty of points to get 6-10 necromancy for the life drain, while still maxing scoundrel.

Concept I think your going for here is focusing on your melee attacks from scoundrel, while getting tons of life drain, so int won't be that important. Lone wolf can let you get a huge finess, while still getting a decently high Con. Maxed warfare with the talent that boosts vitality based on warfare will already help your max hp along with lone wolf bonus, so you won't need to go crazy with con in that case.

I suggest dagger/shield over dual wield in most cases, especially as lone wolf (since you get a boost to physical/mental shields). Single weapon skill adds to accuracy, while dual wield adds to dodge (Both give same damage bonus).

Damage will be quite high as lone wolf with most points into finesse. A few points in each stat will give you the option to wear just about anything you find, the rest goes into finess to maximize your damage.

For high damage, go with maxed scoundrel (20 points before bonuses) as lone wolf. This boosts your crit multiplier and as a scoundrel you'll be critting alot. 20 points adds 100% crit multiplier and 6 movement speed. With the pawn that means you can move a ton for free, and teleport, backstab etc (basically get around like crazy.)

You don't need even 10 points in necro, but 10 should be the max. Don't need int either for that matter as you will have tons of dagger damage available to you. Just get enough int to wear eq if needed.

Warfare is also good if you take the talent that gives even more vitality (since you can heal so much vitality...having a higher max is just better). Honestly, even though the bonus damage and vitality is great, I still think your better off snagging 10 points into summoning (after equipment bonuses), for the extreme damage and versatility it gives you.

Make the char an elf for the flesh offering ability giving you 1 more ap, and 10% more damage. With lone wolf that is 9 AP you can have on the first turn (6 base +2 adrenaline + 1 flesh offering).

You can go with executioner instead of the pawn (Though that mobility is freaking awesome). Thing is executioner gives you 2 ap each time you kill an enemy lol, so you have 9 ap your first turn, you can quite easily kill 2 or more enemies with your insane damage, backlash, knife throw, teleport mortal strike etc. Each time you do, 2 more ap.

Guerilla is of course another obvious talent to snag, boosting damage yet again, and many scoundrel abilities do not break sneak.

Living armor works well as necromancy's life drain counts as healing (so 35% is added back to magic armor...preventing status effects nicely).

Setup can basically allow you to solo without much trouble if you want, but you miss out on civil abilities big time. Alternatively, go with 2 characters who are lone wolves, with one or both using a similar build to this. It helps if both have high stealth, but that really limits you on other civil abilities, and makes them compete for equipment as well.

[Revolucas]

Executioner only works once per turn.

Yeah, Living Armor is one of the best talents in my opinion, for any build. Just because of how much magic damage is taken in this game, like standing in fire.

I wouldn't bother with sneak rogue and Guerilla. Just play it like a melee fighter. DoS 1 it was good but in DoS 2 it doesn't work well at all. Chameleon is a good skill to have since it lets you set up a delayed turn or give you a couple turns to reposition yourself.

[Pyromus]

Originally posted by Alundaio:

Executioner only works once per turn.

Yes, which is why he said 9 AP. LW is 6 + 2 from exec + 1 from flesh sacrifice is 9. Since he's going scoundrel, he can get to 11 if he uses adrenaline.

Anyway, I would build it like a normal rogue. Get 3-5 points into scoundrel for skillbook purposes. get the amount in necro that you want for heals, I'd suggest no more than 5. Throw the rest into warfare for max damage, maybe a point in pyro if you wanna mess around with corpse explosion.

Max fin first, with memory when needed, then if you decided to invest in necro attacks, maybe throw points into INT. But, I wouldn't suggest it. Necro only has 2 non source attacks, and as a rogue, you can teleport or throw knives for more damage when you're at range. If you invest in grasp of the starved, then yeah, INT becomes more useful, but again, I'd focus more on FIN first.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Originally posted by wulfster42:

I suggest dagger/shield over dual wield in most cases, especially as lone wolf (since you get a boost to physical/mental shields). Single weapon skill adds to accuracy, while dual wield adds to dodge (Both give same damage bonus).

Would this not also decrease the damage output significantly?

Though if I were to do this, I'd probably use the Rapiers - Dagger/Finesse mod for aesthetics.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1204776900

Damage will be quite high as lone wolf with most points into finesse. A few points in each stat will give you the option to wear just about anything you find, the rest goes into finess to maximize your damage.

Originally posted by wulfster42:

Warfare is also good if you take the talent that gives even more vitality (since you can heal so much vitality...having a higher max is just better).

Yeah, high damage and HP would make for quite a competent melee. Fun combo. :3

Originally posted by wulfster42:

Honestly, even though the bonus damage and vitality is great, I still think your better off snagging 10 points into summoning (after equipment bonuses), for the extreme damage and versatility it gives you.

I was debating this as well!
Probably would use the NPC Spell mod though if I did this, for extra Undead Summons (would avoid Bone Crusher, that's just OP).

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1238113171

Originally posted by wulfster42:

Make the char an elf for the flesh offering ability giving you 1 more ap, and 10% more damage. With lone wolf that is 9 AP you can have on the first turn (6 base +2 adrenaline + 1 flesh offering).

I plan to go Fane for the Time Warp power.
Though, wearing an Elf Mask (since I figured out it won't steal the head slot), for Flesh Sacrifice, and it's synergy with Elemental Affinity for Necromancer skills.

Though, if I were to go this route, would I also want to look at talents like Leech?
Or invest a bit in Geomancy for buffers, and poison spells?

Originally posted by wulfster42:

Guerilla is of course another obvious talent to snag, boosting damage yet again, and many scoundrel abilities do not break sneak.

Not so sure on this one.
40% is a lot of damage, but for one attack. And that's assuming I can initiate it via stealth.

Originally posted by davemytnick33:

I'd suggest no more than 5. Throw the rest into warfare for max damage

I'd probably do Scoundrel max first for the mobility. I'm a big fan of just rushing across the battlefield.

Originally posted by davemytnick33:

maybe a point in pyro if you wanna mess around with corpse explosion.

What largely makes me debate pyro is Haste honestly. Extra AP, Mobility and emergency removal of slowed.

[GatyKahn]

Stats Progression
Level 1: 2 Warfare, 2 Scoundrel, 16 FIN, Lone Wolf
Level 2: 1 Polymorph, 18+2 FIN, 12 Memory
Level 3: 4 Warfare, 24 FIN, Executioner
Level 4: 2 Aero, 26 FIN, 14 Memory
Level 5: 6 Warfare, 30 FIN
Level 6: 2 Necromancer, 34 FIN
Level 7: 8 Warfare, 38 FIN
Level 8: 10 Warfare, 42 FIN, All Skilled Up, 2 Polymorph, 16 Memory
Level 9: 3 Polymorph, 48 FIN
Level 10: 12 Warfare, 52 FIN
Level 11: 14 Warfare, 56 FIN
Level 12: 16 Warfare, 60 FIN
Level 13: 18 Warfare, 64 FIN, Bigger and Better, 68 FIN
Level 14: 20 Warfare, 70 FIN, 12 WIT
Level 15: 4 Polymorph, 18 WIT
Level 16: 5 Polymorph, 22 Memory
Level 17: 4 Scoundrel, 22 WIT
Level 18: 6 Scoundrel, 26 WIT, Hothead
Level 19: 8 Scoundrel, 30 WIT
Level 20: 10 Scoundrel, 34 WIT
Level 21: 12 Scoundrel, 38 WIT
Level 22: 14 Scoundrel, 42 WIT

♦ Academy Lessons:
Lesson in Finesse: +5 FIN / -5 Memory
Lesson in Memory: +5 Memory / -5 STR
Lesson in Wits: +5 WIT / -5 CON
Lesson in Con: +5 CON / -5 INT

♦ Spider Kiss Talent:
Dragon (+2 WIT -2 CON)

♦ Civil:
Thievery → Bartering next

[wulfster42]

I'm big on maxing scoundrel first since it adds the most damage and tons of mobility.

Why most damage?

Crit bonus happens after all other damage increases. Finesse, warfare, dual wield or single weapon, etc etc. Your insane movement with high scoundrel along with 3 teleport abilities (two for you and one for any other enemy...you can teleport them so their back is to you), means you'll always be getting backstabs.

Sebille I believe gets pawn for free, and can still get executioner (it doesn't show up as her having pawn, she just gets the ability, kinda like Ibez's pet talent for free). That gives you a ton of mobility with lone wolf on her and backlash.

As far as 2 daggers vs dagger shield. Damage.....gets insane for a lone wolf with this build. 1 point in each stat, rest into finesse (till it's maxed), 1 point (2 due to lone wolf) into summoning initially, 1 point into aero (on one of them..since you can use the gloves on the other), for teleport if you want (makes getting through puzzles easier etc to have teleport on both chars). Rest of your points into scoundrel initially (unless you want to get executioner early, then toss 1 into warfare before your second bonus talent point).

For my playthrough with this setup I went weapon shield with my main and dual weapon with Sibelle (as she starts off with 2 points in dual wield (if you make her lone). The damage is not much less with weapon shield, but you get a TON of armor due to lone wolfs bonus and shields high base armor. You can always have both options as well, depending on the fight, just don't put points into dual wield or single weapon...and switch based on what you need want.

Honestly the damage with 2 lone wolf high scoundrel/finess characters who also have freaking summons is crazy. Sibelle for instance has free movement due to pawn, so you can always get into range of backlashing someone (for 1 ap), you flesh sacrifice first for the 10% damage bonus (which is btw, multiplied by your crit bonus as well). You have adrenaline that is possible as well, and 6 base AP, so 9 total ap. 1 ap to backlash, and then enough AP to attack 4 more times and get a backstab each time. Anything dies to that, and most stuff will die with just 1 more attack or maybe 2. Even if it takes 5 ap all together (Backlash + 2 attacks), you STILL have 4 ap left, and if you have executioner, you actually have 6 ap.

That is usually enough to move behind another enemy and attack twice, or use your throw attack to backstab someone from range, then summon a minion and a turrent near it, or teleport the enemy so it's back is facing you and backstab it twice or use cloak and dagger to get behind an enemy then use a normal attack (Backstab) and then a 3 point attack to silence it or atrophy it depending if it's a melee char or spell caster etc.

Basically you can usually take out 2 enemies pretty easy with each of your guys.

Scoundrel makes it easier since you can get around so cheaply (in addition to your cheap teleport attacks etc) and it boosts damage more then any of the other options (as long as your backstabing, which you will always be doing).

Due to the 30% increase in shields, you can go dual daggers, but....the extra magic shields is really nice to have, and your damage is so high already, that it doesn't really make you spend more AP to kill stuff by having a shield (or at least didn't for me).

Necro isn't nearly as important as you would think as even 1 point (2 due to lone wolf), is 20% life leach, and you often get at least 1 or 2 more points from equipment (I believe I had 5 on each of my guys with only 1 point invested).

Healing 50% of the damage you do is a ton, and since you rarely actually have your shields go down, it's not actually that important for most fights. Probably worth investing 1 point in, just for the 20% base and the nice heal if/when you do actually have your shields drop, but I wouldn't go all the way to 10 that is for sure. More scoundrel early on = more damage = more healing (but also kills everything faster, and more movement as well).

Warfare just needs 1 point for executioner (2 with lone wolf). That is a 10% bonus to damage as well, and opens up warfare talents which can be decent for knockdown or AoE attacks. They are still based on finesse if you have daggers equiped.

Summoning...long term, needs 10 points, but initially 1 point (2 with lone wolf) is fine. It takes 4 levels (4 more skill points) to get it to 10..which gives a big upgrade to your summons and makes them pretty insane. How fast you do that, and if you'll sacrifice early scoundrel points for it, is up to you...but I consider it worth it in the long run.

For dual wield/single weapon etc, I say it's not worth it usually, as it adds to the stat bonus (so especially not for lone wolves). The breakdown is base weapon damage * (stat bonus and weapon skill bonus) * (Warfare bonus) * (Crit bonus/higher ground bonus if you crit/have higher ground).

Stats and weapon skills are addititve to each other, so suffer somewhat from diminishing returns, or at least moreso then the other options). If your always critting (which you pretty much will be as a scoundrel), the best bang for your buck is Scoundrel points, followed by warfare points for pure damage (but since warfare doesn't add anything else, scoundrel wins for the bonus to movement). Maxing both scoundrel and Warfare is possible, and if you grab the vitality talent, even worth it.....but that would make getting 10 in summoning, 2 in aero and at least 1 in necro much harder (still could mostly max warfare I guess).

So, as a base for this setup, I suggest:

MAX scoundrel 10 base points (20 with lone wolf) + any bonuses from eq. Requires 10 points.
1 point (2 total) in necro (just use + skills to boost it a bit more.
5 points (10 total) summoning (so worth it for 2-3 AP you get a great bonus char that you can position).
1 point (2 total) Aero (just for teleport, but yeah, worth it just for that).
Rest into Warfare (might be possible to max it..that would be a total of 27 points to max warfare....think your like 5 points shy if you take all skilled up.

Net result would be VERY high damage. 1 point in all stats, then max finesse then rest in con for very high vitality. Extreme mobility, with a decent number of ranged options.

Minions can be used for elemental spells at will (diminsion bolt till you get the element you want then summon elemental minion of that type) so you can use that for fireballs etc.

Both chars have teleport abilities, so puzzles are cake (and very useful in combat as well).

Both have full range of warfare and scoundrel skills for massive combat options. With Phoenix dive, backlash, cloak and dagger etc, tons of 1 cost movement abilities that set you up for backstabbing. Tons of disabling attacks once armor is gone (or with overwhelm lower then your max...and ifyour using dagger/shield....with the 30% lone wolf bonus, that can be alot of armor).

Both characters can summon a very strong minion positioned where they want. You can power infuse it (for it's own knockdown or whirlwind attacks) of give it 50% MORE damage (great if you are having both minions just pummel one enemy) at the cost of killing them at the end of the turn. Basically means you can take out a distant enemy you can't easily reach with your 2 minions that each do 150% damage.

In ....most situations, if you enter combat sneaking (you can't always) this means you can take out 2 enemies each, and 1 enemy with your minions.

You can also (if you can't sneak) summon the minions before combat starts, so they are already out and won't use AP, good for random battles, or scripted ones (IE you have to talk to the guy to start the fight etc).

Guerillia is decent btw, if you stealth before most fights, even if you need to talk to start the battle, your OTHER character can still stealth, you just need to switch to them (they won't be in combat yet), and initiate combat with an attack or ability (which will happen from stealth), some scoundrel abilities like cloak and dagger, don't break sneaking btw, so you can cloak and dagger, and then backlash to hit most enemies with an initial 40% damage bonus. Stealth is good for positioning before a fight as well, but not mandatory.

[wulfster42]

Originally posted by Gwazi Magnum:

Originally posted by wulfster42:

I suggest dagger/shield over dual wield in most cases, especially as lone wolf (since you get a boost to physical/mental shields). Single weapon skill adds to accuracy, while dual wield adds to dodge (Both give same damage bonus).

I plan to go Fane for the Time Warp power.
Though, wearing an Elf Mask (since I figured out it won't steal the head slot), for Flesh Sacrifice, and it's synergy with Elemental Affinity for Necromancer skills.

d.

I thought you only got the flesh eater ability when wearing the mask, not flesh sacrifice? I liked flesh sacrifice over time warp for the damage bonus and the non-hatred of undead penalty. Lockpicks and theivery are not really that much of a worry (just summon a minion and pound on stuff, rarely need a lockpick and + theivery EQ and random lockpicks work for the few times you cant.

If you get the flesh eater ability AND timewarp though, it would be totally worth it. With two lone wolves that is an extra freaking 8 potential AP (with execuationer).

[GatyKahn]

you get all the elf stuff, so also flesh sacrifice.

the only probem with the helmet is you will lose helmet slot which can be annoying when you relay on points for your build that you get through it.

I personally think elf is better, however the undead is better for survival. fake death is extremely overpowered and time warp is nothing to joke about. Probably the best all around solution.

Also you get as undead in the ship first floor the shape shift mask which allows you to also gain adreline at the start through eating corpses from elf.

I play lonewolf honour mode runs every day basically and this combo is extremely overpowered.

1) lower before the fight your hp with a second char to 10-20% and buff death wish ( that's 80-90% more damage )
2) buff haste and piece of mind ( haste for 1 more ap at the start, piece of mind for more damage and wit which makes you start to fight first )
3) open with flesh sacrifice, that makes your 7 ap > 8 ap
4) "hunter use elemental arrow to boost your damage on blood pool even more", as assassin not really anything else to be casted atm.

Now you got basically 8 AP to start, 10% from flesh sacrifice, 80-90% more damage through death wish, a bit more damage from piece of mind and faster start then the enemy + 20% more accuracy and some more stuff like str i think.

You also have adreline skill from the boat area that can boost your AP to 10 AP in total.

HF my assassin with this setup would practically one rotation every single boss it encountered.

This is what i for example do in act 1 on alexander with undead:

1) death wish + haste + clear mind
2) walk into his range so we get in combat
3) start with 7 ap, time warp myself 5 ap left
4) teleport alexander on another unit for cleave dmg 3 ap left
5) teleport behind alexander with damage ( 2 ap left )
6) 1 nuke on alexander 0 ap left
7) timewarp goes into effect
8) 7 points back
9) stab alexander another time, 5 points left
10) adreline buff 7 point back
11) stab him again and again and again and dead easily
12) stealth
13) delay stealth ( to gain cooldowns back and more ap )
14) a whole new 8 ap ponits to spend on your target

Everything goes south? fake death > teleport with warp mark while fake death to a town = zero chance on rip.

How to regen hp as undead? not needed, as i will have 2-3 necromancy which regens all hp hp from 10-20% from when i start > 100% easily with doing my combo damage. As it will heal up a lot.

[Gregorovitch]

Originally posted by Gwazi Magnum:

Basically how would you guys suggest building a Rogue that utilizes Necromancer so the backstabs are healing constant hit points?

I'm considering using Elemental Affinity as an Elf so that Necromancer skills would also get cheaper.

TBH I have not tried mixing Necro with Scoundrel, but my main PC was Lohse as Scoundrel in my Tact run so I can give you my observastions, note this was not LW so if you are thinking of that you get so many points it's not the same equation:

Your main stats as Scoundrel are finesse, warfare, scoundrel, dual wield in that order. You don't get enough points in the gamee in 21 levels to max them all out so anything you add to that is going to cost you roughly 5% reduction in damage output of you main attacks (ikncluding all Scoundrel abilities).

This means there has to be a very strong case to justify any additional abilities/schools for a Scoundrel since they deal awesome amounts of raw damage in vanilla state, that's their job. To make that case it has to be something you use all the time and it has to add a lot of damage output to counter the 5% damage you lose per point per hit in one way or another.

The Pawn is IMO mandatory for a Scoundrel. It's good for every melee charcter, the best talent in the game, but for scoundrels it is absolutely essential becasue it enables you to adjust position to get into a target's backstab quadrant for free which adds up to thousands, probably millions, of additional damage over the course of a game.

One point in Polymorphism gives you two skills that synergyse exceptionally well with Scoundrel: Chamelaion Cloak and Chickeen Claw. Chamelion Cloak because your big 3SP ability, Mortal Blow, does double damage if you are invisible. Wnen partnered with the Guerrilla talent (which you should take as soon as you get Mortal Blow) this can push your damage output from this ability upwards on 10k end game. Chicken Claw becasue it partners perfectly with Rupture and gives a very cheap and very welcome additional CC ability. For this reason I recommend a point in Polymorphism.

A second guideline is that any skills that affect an enemy over time are not very usefull because a Scoundrel kills stuff super fast, so long term effects on the Scoundrel's target is not really relevant and it is very hard to justify helping out with another character's target with any sort of cast instead of backstabbing your own for insane damage first and when dispatcheed then wandering over and simply stabbing your mate's target in the back if still necessary. It's more efficient.

So looking at the Necromancy tree I would highlight the following skills I would think might synergise with a Scoundrel at the cost of two points in Necro:

Bonecage: extra armour is always useful in those nasty boss fights, and who wants to waste time quaffing potions anyway? 1AP cost, good value in many situations perhaps.

Living on the Edge: Two turns of invulnerability while I finish off this pesky mega-voidwoken that's about to waste me? For sure but 3AP cost, ouch, but I suppose it's gotta be better than being actually dead. This is going to give you min two free attacks against the monster and for any self-repecting scoundrel that should be enough. Plus your mates can probably heal you meantime

As to the rest of the Necro tree they look pretty meeh to me for a scoundrel, stuff you'll probably rarely use, always opting to simply backstab something instead.

So are those two Necro skills as good as the two Polymorph one's I mentioned? Personally I don't think so but I might be wrong. Take both? Well thje problem with that is the memory cost which would have to come at the expense of Finesse. It makes the cost to damage output 10% for the memory slots and another 10% for the two points in Necro that don't go to Warfare or Dual Weild or Scoundrel. 20% of 10k damage is a hell of a lot of damage (as is 20% of 200 or even 20% of 20 at various stages of the gamee). The difference between a dead or incapacitated monster and a monster that is about to waste you.

[Revolucas]

Guerillia is decent btw, if you stealth before most fights, even if you need to talk to start the battle, your OTHER character can still stealth, you just need to switch to them (they won't be in combat yet), and initiate combat with an attack or ability (which will happen from stealth), some scoundrel abilities like cloak and dagger, don't break sneaking btw, so you can cloak and dagger, and then backlash to hit most enemies with an initial 40% damage bonus. Stealth is good for positioning before a fight as well, but not mandatory.

But it's situational unlike in DoS1 where you can sneak in combat for a couple AP and repeat. Now you can only pull it off once before combat and can't use it at all in surprise encounters. There are much better passive talents that would make a better choice. If it worked with invisibility I would change my mind about it. Unless there is some kind of cheese with Play Dead or something that I'm not aware of, where you can consistently use it.

I can't remember how much AP it cost to sneak, isn't it like 6 AP or something ridiculous? In theory you can go invisible and then sneak but it's not worth the AP I don't think.

I guess on a pure dagger build, it wouldn't be that bad because there less talents that are useful, but since he wants to hybrid into Necro he's going to need either the Memory talent or Elemental Affinity, but that's all up to him.

EDIT:

Okay stealth is 4 AP.

[Fendelphi]

Formula for calculating damage = (Base Damage)*(1+Elemental Bonus%)*(1+Attribute Bonus%+Weapon Skill Bonus%+Misc Bonuses%)*(1+High Ground Bonus% + Crit Bonus%)

If you can guarantee a critical hit every time, Scoundrel is better than Warfare(about 11% better). But any time you dont crit(either an attack or physical ability), Warfare is better for damage purposes.
Or said in another way, if 2 out of 10 attacks are not going to be crits(throwing daggers at the enemy, attacking an enemy that is against a wall, or is immune to backstabs for some reason, etc.), you are better off investing in Warfare instead of Scoundrel.

For the best result, I would say get a decent amount of both. Allows you mobility and reliable damage in "bad" situations, while still being able to utilize backstabs effectively.

As for adding Necro to the mix, 1-2 points is ok(for the health regain), but could possibly be covered by gear.
It is not good to mix primary damage stats, as that would lower the overall damage considerably.
Also, more skills means higher memory requirements, which could also set back your damage potential early on.

Polymorph is nice because it's bonus attribute point can be invested for "free" memory, so it does not slow down your damage while leveling very much, if at all. The skills also have better synergy with Rogues, generally speaking(adding an extra stealth, strong CC or more mobility).

Necromancer skills are a mixed back of offense and defense. The skills are more supportive in nature or for weakening your opponents(certain class combinations can change that to be more offensive or defensive).
IMO, investing in a lot of Necromancer skills makes the most sense on a caster character(buff/debuff/damage), as Necromancy provides strong benefits to your team, but relies on other character's AP to do the heavy lifting(again, some classes can do it fine).
As an example, if a dedicated necromancer casted Death Wish and Living on the Edge on a damage dealer, that character will be able to deal very high damage with no real risk.
A Rogue/Necro hybrid casting either before attacking will generally deal less damage and be less flexible with their AP(compared to their intended purpose as damage dealers).

Ofc, in the end, it is all about what you like to play. It can definately be done.

[wulfster42]

There is little to no reason to ever not backstab an opponent, especially if you have the teleport ability (even if only from gloves, though it's worth spending 1 point (as lone wolf) to get the skill naturally so you can wear other gloves).

Back to the wall? Just watch em fall.

Teleport that enemy so his back is now to you hehe. Game over (don't even need to use backlash on it). That saves your backlash for the next enemy you are going to kill (and there will be a next one).

With executioner, you can teleport and kill the first enemy with 1 or 2 backstabs, then backlash to a second and backstab it (to kill it), and still have 2-4 ap left over, enough to summon a minion if you have 2 (and hopefully it takes out a 3rd enemy) and possibly buff it's damage (50%) or give it a power infusion and still move a ton with ap.

Scoundrel is the highest damage boost as long as you always backstab, which you honestly should ALWAYS be doing...it's not 90% of the time, it should be 100%. It also gives you insane movement range, and even without pawn....that is huge.

While I love pawn, and it's mega awesome, executioner is just better, especially with things like time warp late game. Pawn saves you 1 ap (with high scoundrel you can move pretty much anywhere with 1 ap)....and that 1 AP is situational if you need to actually move (not use backlash etc). Executioner for a scoundrel means 2 ap (Which could be used to move twice) every round.

You plain out are always going to kill something every single turn as a scoundrel focus, unless the 1 ap from pawn would not matter anyway (crippled, can't get to an enemy etc).

That being said, warfare DOES give a very similar damage boost as scoundrel, and for all attacks...still best to maximize both if possible (just getting other neccesary points for abilities etc.

For a lone wolf, 20+ scoundrel makes more sense then 20+ warfare, if you gotta leave one or the other at 16 (before eq bonuses), it makes sense to leave warfare, mainly due to the movement bonus.

In the end you just plain out do more damage with a high scoundrel/warfare build then any other setup. It far out damages any bow builds, it does more then spells (at least versus individual targets), and it is insanely mobile as well. With warfares phoneix + backlash + cloak and dagger, you have 3 1 ap teleport abilities, and the ability to move just about anywhere for 1 ap naturally as well (along with teleport for 2 ap that gets enemies off walls etc).

Super high AP (6 base + 2 adrenaline + 1 flesh + 2 executioner) = 11 means that not only will you CERTAINLY kill 1 enemy, but it's extremely likely you will take out another, and possible have AP left over to move to somewhere defensive or go invisible, play dead etc. With time warp you can get a whole nother turn (lost 2ap from adrenaline) but that is still 6 more AP.

Super high damage + super mobility + insane amount of AP = game over.

[Gwazi Magnum]

So most people seem to think that Necromancer is more a minor splash/flavour thing, and isn't really a strong investment due to the divertion from damage?

I suppose that makes some sense.
Though, with how high damage Scoundrels do, just 10-20% life drain in itself can be insanely powerful.

Originally posted by Gatygun:

the only probem with the helmet is you will lose helmet slot which can be annoying when you relay on points for your build that you get through it.

If you use Fane's helmet sure.
But if you use a race ripper to get an Elf Face and merge it with a Source Orb, you can wear that mask, activate the ability, put on a different piece of headgear and still remain as an elf.

[Revolucas]

Necromancy builds on their own are pretty good, just not if you want your primary focus to be melee since the skills scale with Int. Necromancer can use physical damage skills from Polymorph and Warfare; Think of all the great CC you will have access to, like Tentacle Lash, Chicken Claw, Battle Stomp, Battering Ram, etc. (Though Warfare CCs won't do crap for damage) You can even hold a dagger to look cool and wield a shield to use Shield Bounce. Decay combos well with Hydrosophist, which you will need 3 to get Blood Storm which is basically thunderstorm that causes decay and disease. Apothesis, Skin Graft, Time Warp, Grasp of the Starved and Blood Storm will wreck the planet.