Best classes for companions (SOLO)

[Babe Badinky Bones]

I've just started this game, i'm playing as the Red Prince as a mage, what classes would you say are best for each of the NPC companions? I currently have;

Me: Red Prince, DPS Caster
Fane: Rogue, DPS Burst
Lohse: Heal Caster
Ifan: Tank (fighter)

Would you say this is a good comp? what should I change?

[Haddon]

Generally the best bet is to do a 1/3 or 3/1 caster/physical split. Bit there really aren't "best" builds, it is very up to your preferences. How do you usually like to play, very tactical with positioning and crowd control, really big damage basically assassinating enemies early on, physical powerhouses than can just stand and take the hits while smashing dudes with 2h weapons? You need a build idea to center around, and then we can help you make a sweet team.

[Babe Badinky Bones]

Originally posted by Haddon:

Generally the best bet is to do a 1/3 or 3/1 caster/physical split. Bit there really aren't "best" builds, it is very up to your preferences. How do you usually like to play, very tactical with positioning and crowd control, really big damage basically assassinating enemies early on, physical powerhouses than can just stand and take the hits while smashing dudes with 2h weapons? You need a build idea to center around, and then we can help you make a sweet team.

I'd say i'm more into dealing a lot of damage straight away rather than having prolonged fights.

[Haddon]

Alright, so you don't REALLY need a tank in this game. You could have Ifan as a warrior that is based less on tanking and more on just damage. Having 2 casters works well if they supplement each other, like making Lohse your healer/hydro, making Red Prince an aero/geo so you have nice damage, and restoration on both casters. A necro would also be great for red prince. Making Ifan into a ranger so you can easily pump out both phys and magic damage (or maybe having fane do it instead so you have a sorta tanky character). What difficulty mode you playing on?

[LaserGuy]

Originally posted by Haddon:

Generally the best bet is to do a 1/3 or 3/1 caster/physical split. Bit there really aren't "best" builds, it is very up to your preferences. How do you usually like to play, very tactical with positioning and crowd control, really big damage basically assassinating enemies early on, physical powerhouses than can just stand and take the hits while smashing dudes with 2h weapons? You need a build idea to center around, and then we can help you make a sweet team.

Strongly disagree about doing 3/1 or 1/3. Generally this means that your player that is the 1 will be always doing the wrong type of damage compared to the rest of the team, which will make your DPS and CC much less efficient. Better to do 4/0 or 2/2 type splits.

[Haddon]

Originally posted by LaserGuy:

Originally posted by Haddon:

Generally the best bet is to do a 1/3 or 3/1 caster/physical split. Bit there really aren't "best" builds, it is very up to your preferences. How do you usually like to play, very tactical with positioning and crowd control, really big damage basically assassinating enemies early on, physical powerhouses than can just stand and take the hits while smashing dudes with 2h weapons? You need a build idea to center around, and then we can help you make a sweet team.

Strongly disagree about doing 3/1 or 1/3. Generally this means that your player that is the 1 will be always doing the wrong type of damage compared to the rest of the team, which will make your DPS and CC much less efficient. Better to do 4/0 or 2/2 type splits.

Casters don't only do ele damage, Necros and Summoners deal phys damage quite easily and well. Most fights also have an enemy or 2 that are weak against 1 type or the other. Also slapping out a burn, poison and bleed on a group of enemies is fantastic. Combine this with some ele damage from your physical users on their weapons, and you can easily get through all but caster MA with a phys team. Getting through PA as an ele team is a bit harder. 4/0 means you are completely missing out on an entire type of CC and buffs/debuffs. 2/2 works well, but is really easy to make ineffective.

3/1 doesn't mean 3 ONLY doing phys or ele damage; a team that completely ignores the other side is missing out on so much. And it is pretty easy to get a 3 phys/1caster working, 3 caster/1 phys with either 2 of the casters having some summoner or necro, or the phys having things like sparkstriker, venom coating, ele damage on weapons, and apply on hit stuff works fantastically.

[Chaoslink]

For clarification Haddon, pretty much everyone that uses the 3/1 split to describe a team doesn't mean 3 casters and one physical. They mean 3 magic and 1 physical referring to the type of damage dealt. A necro caster or a summoner focusing primarily on blood summons would be a physical in that case, and join the 1 there for a 2/2 split. As such, a 3/1 split is not a good choice as you have one character lacking enough damage to be useful in most cases.

To the OP, the best teams are those that focus damage primarily while having support abilities on the side. Generally speaking, you should never have a dedicated tank or healer. They just don't work like you'd expect in this game. Focus instead on making character builds that support themselves while dishing out damage, with the ability to support each other on the side.

Beyond that, I can't offer much else without specifics. Saying you have The Prince as a DPS caster means literally nothing to me as that can mean too many things to provide useful information. For casters, Aero/Hydro is generally the best magic damage class to go with, Geo being next and fire being last since fire lacks any real CC effects and raw damage isn't going to get you too far without CC to back you up. Archers are probably the strongest class overall however, and summoners being mixed as they start off strong and fall off over time. All things considered, Finesse builds generally beat their strength based counterparts as well. However, most anything can be made to work well if built properly. So without more info, there really isn't much help to offer.

[Haddon]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

To the OP, the best teams are those that focus damage primarily while having support abilities on the side. Generally speaking, you should never have a dedicated tank or healer. They just don't work like you'd expect in this game. Focus instead on making character builds that support themselves while dishing out damage, with the ability to support each other on the side.

I know I will get banned from here for this, but you are an idiot. A character having to support themselves entirely is wasting SO MUCH AP. I have heard you say this again and again, and you are numerically wrong. You are in the same camp as "you don't need Con, just use scrolls and potions" Why do you think Con stayed in the game as is? Because using items wastes AP, and so stays relatively balanced. You're retarded.

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by Haddon:

I know I will get banned from here for this, but you are an idiot. A character having to support themselves entirely is wasting SO MUCH AP. I have heard you say this again and again, and you are numerically wrong. You are in the same camp as "you don't need Con, just use scrolls and potions" Why do you think Con stayed in the game as is? Because using items wastes AP, and so stays relatively balanced. You're retarded.

Supporting oneself wastes AP? I mean, I'd consider Necro 4-6 and Living armor supporting oneself, and that costs no AP whatsoever. One AP and a source point to give your whole team Evasion Aura to nullify incoming physical attacks for an entire turn isn't really wasting AP either. CON is indeed a waste though. Health is a poor survivability tool. If you start getting CC'd, the battle very quickly goes south as even one turn lost is a lot more AP wasted than the 1AP needed to cast Fortify, Armor of Frost or the many other support based abilities that both cure and prevent CC as well as restore the armor that protects against them. They're far from wastes if the alternative to a 1AP spell is 4+AP lost to CC. Every character on your team should have access to these spells directly or through scrolls. Every one. That doesn't mean you use them all the time. Just when you need them.

Not to mention that you have abilities like Barrage, Worm Tremor, Ice Fan and many others that cost 3AP to use, often leaving you with that 1AP remaining. Instead of saving that for the next turn, why not transfer it via Haste to another character that will take their turn sooner? Over the course of a fight, Haste gives your team more AP than it takes to cast it. There is no reason not to use it.

I mean, if you disagree with all of that, I really don't understand how you get your team through the game to be honest. Nor can I imagine exactly what AP you think is being wasted on support abilities. You definitely shouldn't have one character spending all their time casting heals and buffs, all four should be focused on damage. But to do so while having no ability to cure incoming CC or provide some sort of spot heal/restore when needed doesn't make any sense towards the argument you're putting against me.

[KalkiKrosah]

Beast is best as a tank, since dwarves get a defense and dodge bonus. On a physical team I make him the healer tank. On a mage team I mix him between a geomancer and an aerothurge.

Sebille is best used as her default rogue class or as an archer. Archers can be a versatile mixed damage dealer if you know how to craft the appropriate arrows. She can also do decently well as a summoner or an enchantress. Necromancy can also be viable on an elf, but a custom elf has a better God skill.

Fane works incredibly well as a rogue since his play dead skill is an added escape tool. I also find he is fun to play as a Necromancer/Warfare or as a Geomancer. Fane will also be your designated lockpickersince he is a living lock pick.

Lohse I build as a two handed user with warfare and polymorph if I want her dealing damage or as the tank/healer. On a mage team her enchantress class works out well for her, though I haven't dabbled into making her anything else yet.

Red Prince is a great wizard with a pyromancer and geomancer setup. There's a unique pyromancer/warfare build I have been meaning to try where he wields a fire staff and gets up close. He also does decently well as a generic two handed fighter or as a tank.

Ifan Ben Mezd is definitely the weaker human companion when compared to Lohse. Summoning is really strong early game and falls off into the late game. He can still work as a summoner/archer but Sebille does that role better. He can also do the two handed fighter or healer tank. Perhaps making him into a summoner/necromancer might make good use of his skills but I think anyone can do a better job than he can. I just don't like Ifan and usually pick the other five before picking him.

[Eddo]

As a casual player of this game, my advice:
-Have the abillity to deal a lot of damage both ways is helpful but doesn't mean you need a 3/1 or 2/2 split necessarily. Geo, huntsman, summoners can deal decent damage to both types.
-Shields + wand/sword > staves. The choice of shield means you can use shields up which dramatically helps survivability.
-Crowd control is immensely useful. Know how to knockdown, freeze and stun your opponents, charm works a treat too. Cripple too.
-Magic mix and match: Hydro and Aero are very cooperative, hydro and pyro not so much.
-Summoning can really help you out in getting through to mid-game. The strength of is that you can easily dealt either type of damage depending on surface you summon them on.

Con or not debate. I say enough con to wield some shields is probably good enough. What is important though is that once armour is pierced, you are at the mercy of enemy CC too, whereas con does not save you there. The limited moves nature of this game meant best defense is dead enemies, or at least incapacitated.

Also not said is that why a dedicated tank or healer is not great is because enemies go for your most squishy character, so everyone having some combat ability is useful as it decreases number of things hitting you, which is alsoways helpful. You can easily get away with 2 schools of spells/abilities, and a smattering of third too. And most classes have buffs as well as damage so most characters can do both when needed.
---
In my current tactician playthrough
Custom Elf: Summoning + Hydro: Healing, summon and use totems to deal both class of damage. The main support character with healing, magic shell and all that.

Ifan: The ranger. Shoots bow but also a geo. Has torturer and entangles enemies to delay them and then allow him and others to pick them off or deal with other enemies first. Have a good supply of knockdown arrows too for CC. Also contributes to magic damage with either geo spells, arrows or piercing damage. Also have a little bit of pyro to buff haste and clear mind, to go along with mend armor and fortify. Not really great "DPS", but I use him to take advantage of terrain for the bonis damage.

Fane: Hydro and Aero with a side of Necro. Primary destructive mage, and support if needed. Have a little bit of nerco to help in dealing physical damage.

Red Prince: Aero + Warfare. His aero is primarily used to manipulate battlefield, whether by teleport or nether swap, or giving that extra bit of aero to stun a shocked enemy or blind nearby enemies. Primarily uses battering ram and battle stomp for warfare, with phoenix dive to get to places quickly.


So yeah, my current plathrough depends a lot on my Incarnate to help with physical damage if I am lacking, but I am very effective in getting rid of magic-weak enemies as everyone can contribute to magic CC.
--

For OP.

What you probably want is that

-Ifan your "tank" is to deal damage, and maybe learn a magic class to allow him to buff/deal some more damage when you only have magic-weak enemies left.
-Lohse: Focus on healing yes, but make sure she has offensive spells as well
-Fane: Rogue can be hard to use properly for new players, make sure he has some use when you need help in dealing magic damage and have plenty of ways to get away as rogue can be a little squishy.
-Main: Make sure your spells have synergy. And make sure you aren't dealing one type of damage.

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by Eddo:

The choice of shield means you can use shields up which dramatically helps survivability.

While I agree with most things you said, I’m hung up on this one. With 700 hours played and at least one shield user in most teams, I can count on my hands the number of times I’ve used shields up. If it’s all you have, it’s okay, but for what you gain and the AP cost to use it, it’s really not all that great without a shield multiple levels higher than you. The amount restored never felt worth the cost compared to using skills like fortify instead and you really don’t want to be using too much healing throughout the fight in most cases. The shield giving the armor in the first place is the reason to use them, but I’d not recommend using the shields up skill unless you’re in a pinch.

[Haddon]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

Originally posted by Haddon:

I know I will get banned from here for this, but you are an idiot. A character having to support themselves entirely is wasting SO MUCH AP. I have heard you say this again and again, and you are numerically wrong. You are in the same camp as "you don't need Con, just use scrolls and potions" Why do you think Con stayed in the game as is? Because using items wastes AP, and so stays relatively balanced. You're retarded.

Supporting oneself wastes AP? I mean, I'd consider Necro 4-6 and Living armor supporting oneself, and that costs no AP whatsoever. One AP and a source point to give your whole team Evasion Aura to nullify incoming physical attacks for an entire turn isn't really wasting AP either. CON is indeed a waste though. Health is a poor survivability tool. If you start getting CC'd, the battle very quickly goes south as even one turn lost is a lot more AP wasted than the 1AP needed to cast Fortify, Armor of Frost or the many other support based abilities that both cure and prevent CC as well as restore the armor that protects against them. They're far from wastes if the alternative to a 1AP spell is 4+AP lost to CC. Every character on your team should have access to these spells directly or through scrolls. Every one. That doesn't mean you use them all the time. Just when you need them.

Not to mention that you have abilities like Barrage, Worm Tremor, Ice Fan and many others that cost 3AP to use, often leaving you with that 1AP remaining. Instead of saving that for the next turn, why not transfer it via Haste to another character that will take their turn sooner? Over the course of a fight, Haste gives your team more AP than it takes to cast it. There is no reason not to use it.

I mean, if you disagree with all of that, I really don't understand how you get your team through the game to be honest. Nor can I imagine exactly what AP you think is being wasted on support abilities. You definitely shouldn't have one character spending all their time casting heals and buffs, all four should be focused on damage. But to do so while having no ability to cure incoming CC or provide some sort of spot heal/restore when needed doesn't make any sense towards the argument you're putting against me.

Cleansing isn't restorying. Necro/Living isn't casting, and you know it. Life is not a poor survival stat, you just have to know when to rely on it and when not to. Aside from the occasional frost armor for an unlucky freeze or stun, you should barely need to use it. Having the scrolls for just in case your 2 units that have it have already gone that turn or are the ones frozen. Haste is only worth using if you are going to have an extra AP the next turn, have an ability that costs 1 AP but still does damage, are using it along with source for something like evasive aura. More damage up front is strategically better than 1 AP later in nearly all cases. Not all, but nearly all. This is why I call you an idiot. That is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ BASIC war boardgaming; focusing on an enemy to take them out rapidly reducing incoming damage, thereby increasing your own ability to damage. You are on this bandwagon I see constantly here that is absolutely wrong, and most of you are too stupid to figure this out. 700 hours playing a game doesn't mean you are good at the game, I can't count how many hundreds of WoW players played a lot and were still ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ awful.

[danbjp]

Originally posted by Haddon:

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

Supporting oneself wastes AP? I mean, I'd consider Necro 4-6 and Living armor supporting oneself, and that costs no AP whatsoever. One AP and a source point to give your whole team Evasion Aura to nullify incoming physical attacks for an entire turn isn't really wasting AP either. CON is indeed a waste though. Health is a poor survivability tool. If you start getting CC'd, the battle very quickly goes south as even one turn lost is a lot more AP wasted than the 1AP needed to cast Fortify, Armor of Frost or the many other support based abilities that both cure and prevent CC as well as restore the armor that protects against them. They're far from wastes if the alternative to a 1AP spell is 4+AP lost to CC. Every character on your team should have access to these spells directly or through scrolls. Every one. That doesn't mean you use them all the time. Just when you need them.

Not to mention that you have abilities like Barrage, Worm Tremor, Ice Fan and many others that cost 3AP to use, often leaving you with that 1AP remaining. Instead of saving that for the next turn, why not transfer it via Haste to another character that will take their turn sooner? Over the course of a fight, Haste gives your team more AP than it takes to cast it. There is no reason not to use it.

I mean, if you disagree with all of that, I really don't understand how you get your team through the game to be honest. Nor can I imagine exactly what AP you think is being wasted on support abilities. You definitely shouldn't have one character spending all their time casting heals and buffs, all four should be focused on damage. But to do so while having no ability to cure incoming CC or provide some sort of spot heal/restore when needed doesn't make any sense towards the argument you're putting against me.

Cleansing isn't restorying. Necro/Living isn't casting, and you know it. Life is not a poor survival stat, you just have to know when to rely on it and when not to. Aside from the occasional frost armor for an unlucky freeze or stun, you should barely need to use it. Having the scrolls for just in case your 2 units that have it have already gone that turn or are the ones frozen. Haste is only worth using if you are going to have an extra AP the next turn, have an ability that costs 1 AP but still does damage, are using it along with source for something like evasive aura. More damage up front is strategically better than 1 AP later in nearly all cases. Not all, but nearly all. This is why I call you an idiot. That is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ BASIC war boardgaming; focusing on an enemy to take them out rapidly reducing incoming damage, thereby increasing your own ability to damage. You are on this bandwagon I see constantly here that is absolutely wrong, and most of you are too stupid to figure this out. 700 hours playing a game doesn't mean you are good at the game, I can't count how many hundreds of WoW players played a lot and were still ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ awful.

Haddon, with every one of your posts you show how little grasp of this game you have; arguing over DOS2 with @Chaos over game mechanics would be like you trying to tell Kasparov he's moved his bishop to the wrong place. I've seen you make fundamental errors in your thinking and analysis of the game, and is, as I've said to you before, unhelpful to new players. If you haven't worked out a child's level of understanding - that con is a complete waste of a point, that is a clear indication of your complete misunderstanding of DOS2 survival.

I'm sorry that I said you needed forum etiquette lessons; I was wrong about that: what you're really looking for is anger management therapy. I feel sorry for your keyboard TBH (it must take quite a beating). I suggest you seek help, as it seems there's not much in your life apart from employing a puerile set of expletives when you are unable to compete with people who know more about the game than most of the people on this forum put together.

[Chaoslink]

I mean, I literally take all the deals possible that lowers my Con to buff others, like the spider kiss or the ghosts in the academy. My Con in act four is often 3. That’s 7 points lower than a default character.

I mean, your point is contradictory to itself. You’re saying that wasting AP on sustain abilities is bad, and that damage is your main focus, then saying that an attribute based on sustain is good when taking it is lowering your damage potential by using up attribute points that could be used to boost damage.

Basically, sustain is only bad when it’s my idea and good when it’s yours. I can’t tell at this point if you’re actually trying to support your point or simply argue against mine. Either way, not once have I used an insult in any of the conversations we’ve had on this thread or another, even though our opinions vary in their level of agreement. I don’t see why you’ve resorted to it now.

[Chaoslink]

On haste, if you lack a 1AP ability or anything useful to cast to make use of that AP, it’s better to haste the next character of yours in the turn order. Wasting it on an ability you don’t need is not a great idea and saving it means you can’t use it again until the next full turn cycle. You’re better off transferring that AP to your next character to be able to use it sooner. This is done when using 3AP abilities and finding yourself with that one to spare. You’d not use it when you have 2 that could get an attack off instead.