Rate the source skills?

[SenMithrarin85]

As title. I've just hit level 16 and (afaik) the last tier of skill books has unlocked. SP costs and memory costs though are getting more demanding, so I was looking for some insight

I'm currently running:

Ifan: (str) 2 handed warrior. 2 Points in aero (for the evasion skills/netherswap/teleport), 2 points in geo for fortify and to boost damage from medusa head. 3 in poly for skin graft also. rest in warfare

Fane: (fin) 2 in huntsman, 2 in aero (same reasons as ifan), 1 in geo for fortify and to prevent him being teleported away from elevation. rest in warfare. 3 in poly for skin graft. also took chameleon cloak

lohse and sebiile: 3 in necro, points in warfare (for bouncing shield, defective barrier mostly), split equally with hydro. 3 in poly each for skin graft

looking through them so far, the warfare ones sound at least sound very situational.

[SenMithrarin85]

bump

[Chaoslink]

Just look at them. If they cost 3 SP, they're powerful. The other ones do good damage too. The Fan of Knives ability from scoundrel is meh. The best ones are the ones that aren't RNG (like meteor strike) and hit all the targets with a guarantee. Aero's Thunderstorm is good, it guarantees 5 hits every turn for three turns. Hail Storm on the other hand might not hit much. Beyond the Poly ones being universally good, it really just depends on what suits your needs.

[SenMithrarin85]

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

Just look at them. If they cost 3 SP, they're powerful. The other ones do good damage too. The Fan of Knives ability from scoundrel is meh. The best ones are the ones that aren't RNG (like meteor strike) and hit all the targets with a guarantee. Aero's Thunderstorm is good, it guarantees 5 hits every turn for three turns. Hail Storm on the other hand might not hit much. Beyond the Poly ones being universally good, it really just depends on what suits your needs.

the warfare ones sound pretty bad. overpower for example sounds very situational

[LaserGuy]

Yeah, Warfare, Scoundrel, and Marksman source skills are all much less impressive than their magical counterparts.

[Chaoslink]

It all really depends. If you can hit all 16 shots of arrow spray, it’s a powerful ability. If you can’t, it’s incredibly situational. Most source skills are only as good as you can maximize them. Take Apotheosis for example. Free source abilities for the duration. However, if you only have one other source ability, it isn’t going to be worth it. It all just depends on what you have available and the situation.

I dunno if it ever got fixed, but the Warfare one, onslaught I think, that hits 5 times was bugged on female lizard characters for some reason and only hit once.

[LukanGamer]

Overpower can be really great(destroys *all* enemy physical armor so long as you have 1pt more then them in it and knockdown), huntsemen is probably most meh/situational, scoundrel is alright.

[Azgardis]

Pyroclastic eruption (especially if enemies clastered together) >= Thunderstorm > Meteor > Hail storm

I never use overpower - 3 source points for just knockdown and delete armor on only one! enemy and even with restrictions that my armor must be more (so in fact u never will do it on any boss like mob).

[Dixon Sider]

Overpower is nice because it only costs 2 AP for a very strong attack, and you can get some insane numbers off with it if you have high armor. Drink a large armor potion with the double consumables perk before you pull, and a jellyskin potion. You can drink them simultaneously if you do it from your inventory

[iRaged]

Cough Cough
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1P-N71gvDavdjCxG67EbhfDp2h8POhrfcikbwGv5refk/edit#gid=0

[Dixon Sider]

Originally posted by iRaged:

Cough Cough
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1P-N71gvDavdjCxG67EbhfDp2h8POhrfcikbwGv5refk/edit#gid=0

Tornado in F-Tier? Shouldnt that one be a S? Its quite OP

Also shoudlnt haste be rated higher than adrenaline? Adrenaline is +0 and haste is +1

Also isnt living on the edge the best skill in the game? its 3 AP can be a lot, but if you cast it before the fight or while your standing in blood it carries

Its all opinion though, and I cant say I would be able to come up with anything better as a whole. These should be voted on or something because the usefulness is going to very per person. I pulled every fight with Living on the edge up on my tank then delayed turn (the actual best skill in the game) so all my mages and rogue could barrage the enemy into oblivion

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by Dixon Sider:

Tornado in F-Tier? Shouldnt that one be a S? Its quite OP

Also shoudlnt haste be rated higher than adrenaline? Adrenaline is +0 and haste is +1

Also isnt living on the edge the best skill in the game? its 3 AP can be a lot, but if you cast it before the fight or while your standing in blood it carries

Its all opinion though, and I cant say I would be able to come up with anything better as a whole. These should be voted on or something because the usefulness is going to very per person. I pulled every fight with Living on the edge up on my tank then delayed turn (the actual best skill in the game) so all my mages and rogue could barrage the enemy into oblivion

Tornado? Eh, not even a skill I think about honestly. Not much use to it unless you're already doing something wrong and letting things get out of hand. Its like Teleport. That shouldn't be high on the list either. It can be good, but I'd not put it higher than B tier. Uncanny evasion on the other hand... That should be S tier with its aura being SS. Proper use of it negates the need for the entire STR armor class entirely.

Some things on that list the author got right. Rain is definitely up there. Adrenaline should be above Haste as there are other ways to gain haste than using it directly and AP now is always better than AP later. I actually calculate a team's effectiveness with a generic calculation. You add up all your damage each turn. Every turn after the first you subtract 20% from the total. The concept being that if it takes you three turns to start pumping out most of your damage, you've already taken multiple turns of damage with minimal CC (damage = CC). So damage on turn one is vastly more important than damage turn three.

However, this person definitely has a lot of things wrong on this list, or made this list pre-DE (still having things wrong, but slightly less so than post-DE). Worm Tremor is borderline the most powerful non-source ability available, being at least A tier worthy, replacing Spider legs due to the nerf Spider legs got in the DE.

Living on the edge is good, but the best use of it is in combination with Death Wish. You beat your own character to 1HP and effectively double their damage while Living on the edge keeps them alive.

Some of that list is pretty inconsistent too. I mean, firebrand is literally Venom Coating but with fire. Both are powerful, yet they'd be on the same tier. Firebrand might even be above that as VC is useless against undead. Hail Strike, Meteor shower and Arrow storm should also all be on the same tier, lower than Thunder storm as they all have no guaranteed hit while Thunder Storm not only guarantees hits, but also hits for three turns.

So yeah, I'd disagree with close to 40% of that.

[Pyromus]

On the team you listed, bloodstorm would likely be the most useful source skill you can get. The hydro/necro builds combine a source book from one set and a non source book from the other to get it. It's like thunderstorm but with physical damage and sets decay instead of stun, which means hydro heals can now also damage foes. And since you have 2 of those characters, the higher initiative one can cast bloodstorm (setting blood under each target) and then the second one can use grasp of the starved, which will let them keep a source point for something like shroud (cripple + blind = improve hard cc) or skin graft.

That being said, with two near identical characters, apotheosis on each would be helpful, since they can each potentially get 3 nuke level source skills and elemental affinity is easy on them. Precasting apoth, into bloodstorm, adrenaline, grasp, skin graft, adrenaline, grasp is nice, and flesh sacrifice and executioner talent help do more madness. Ice nukes tossed in as well for lower magic armor enemies would be equally viable.

Onslaught can be good, but generally, I prefer it with a sparking build.
Arrow spray/storm can be good, but usually you can use 3AP more effectively with an archer.