Divinity: Original Sin 2

Divinity: Original Sin 2

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Skeleton Jelly 2017 年 12 月 13 日 下午 1:21
Magic resists in Tactician Mode
Once in Act 2, a lot of things start randomly packing 50% resist to magic across the board, and have this just for existing. Even more common enemies. I just wish to know if this is a feature in all difficulties, or is it something added to Tactician specifically?

I'm in a 4 player coop game, and all of us are kind of stumped on how magic is supposed to be viable.
引用自 Coolguy:
So hey remember how a bunch of people in this thread had a colossal meltdown about how magic resists were fake news and these things weren't real?

https://fextralife.com/divinity-original-sin-2-interview-armour-changes-mechanics-skills-types-and-more/

Prevalence of high resistances was an oversight, and we’re toning them down in many fights in Definitive Edition. We’re also trying to avoid resistance stacking in a way that blocks both parts of fire+earth\poison combo and water\air combo, since those are bread and butter for nukers and control mages respectively.

You all are definitively and objectively wrong. Even the developers said this was a fundamental design oversight.

I told you so.
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Gamebot 2017 年 12 月 15 日 下午 1:46 
引用自 Coolguy
all of your other blather is meaningless, even going to the point that you have no idea what the word 'additive' means with regard to the formulae..
Flat Damage = A×{1+0.05×(Attribute-10)+0.05×Weapon Ability}×(1+0.05×Combat Ability)
Marginal gain at level20(STR50 Warfare15) is 2H +1.5% and Warfare +2.86%.
Attributes and Weapon Ability are additive, Combat Ability is multiplicative. 2H is inefficient because it's additive, +1.5% marginal increase at STR50. That's why your state below is false.
引用自 Coolguy
physical skills get double the usual bonus from warfare (10% vs 5%) so they inherently scale better than any given school of magic
You are the one who has no idea how the calculation works. This is not some rocket science. It's simple highschool math. Stop making fun of yourself. If you have no idea what it is, just stop talking about it.

引用自 Coolguy
you continue to miss the point. i am not saying use pyro on fire-immune things. i am saying, why use elemental skills when the strict majority of things resist ALL of them? why would you use magic at all against something that has 80% resist 2 things and 40% resist the other 3 things?
There's no point except you're not understanding the game mechanics and blaming it all on the 'high resistance'. If you know how to use teleportation/nether swap, Elemental Affinity, and get the right AOE position, 0~30% resistance is nothing, 40% is manageable, and you can also use Flay Skin. Magic in this game is strong and easily overruns resistance, and I've already proved it with simple numbers, but you clearly seem to not understand it.

引用自 Coolguy
why would you not just use physical, which nothing resists and is perfectly capable of the AOE desired? this is common in tactician.
Because Magic AOE is much more efficient than Physical AOE. The problem here is simple. You have no idea how to use mage; Tele/Nether/EA, and many other skills.

引用自 Coolguy
you clearly do not play tactician, or you have never bothered to look at any actual data points. i have presented the percentage data points that i've gathered from about mid-to-late act 2. you have no counter-data - nobody does.
1. I finished honor mode in co-op and finished 3p tactician co-op bunch of times. The screenshot I've showed you was 3p tactician co-op.

2. I know every single resistance of every enemy because I've checked every one of them when I first finished the game and did the same in every playthrough. Everyone knows that enemies have high resistance, and everyone simply does not use the same type of magic on the said high resistance enemies. I don't want to say this, but honestly, you two are just newbs and exaggerating about it too much.

引用自 Coolguy
you have no actual tactics to handle this chromatic, all-encompassing resistance. all of your other blather is meaningless, even going to the point that you have no idea what the word 'additive' means with regard to the formulae.

I've already told you the answer. Why would you hit Aetera with magic when she has all resistance? Isn't that a moronic decision itself? The solution is simple. Just don't hit her with magic. That's the whole point of the concept 'Resistance'. She has weak physical armor, and 2 Physical dealers can easily chain-CC her. I know it because I killed every minion in 2 turns with Aero magic, while my two friends; two physical dealers were killing Aetera with Chain-CC.

FYI, We used Flay Skin to kill Aetera in 4p all magic party. It was an unusual strategy, but it was the most effective way to kill her in 4p magic party. High resistance is not a problem. Your party composition, build, or lack of strategic plan is the real problem.
最后由 Gamebot 编辑于; 2017 年 12 月 15 日 下午 2:22
LinkZeppeloyd 2017 年 12 月 15 日 下午 2:52 
I enjoyed the mage game, but it seems like you guys aren’t acknowledging the resistance issue. It does not matter how high your intelligence is when resistance is 100%. Most posts here are about how to uber stack spell damage, which is irrelevant and the entire point of the gripe. At 410 hours, played on Tac with mixed groups, all magic and all physical, it is worth pointing out that magic becomes wildly inefficient in act 4.

It is true that air has fewer resistances, but there are too many battles with too high and too many resistances. I had 4 mages, each with two magic schools maxed with ALL spells. And yet every battle, at least 2 of my group could do next to zero damage, even if they had 10 trillion intelligence. All ehile good ol’ physical is doing 100% all day every day.
Revolucas 2017 年 12 月 15 日 下午 3:02 
引用自 LinkZeppeloyd
I enjoyed the mage game, but it seems like you guys aren’t acknowledging the resistance issue. It does not matter how high your intelligence is when resistance is 100%. Most posts here are about how to uber stack spell damage, which is irrelevant and the entire point of the gripe. At 410 hours, played on Tac with mixed groups, all magic and all physical, it is worth pointing out that magic becomes wildly inefficient in act 4.

It is true that air has fewer resistances, but there are too many battles with too high and too many resistances. I had 4 mages, each with two magic schools maxed with ALL spells. And yet every battle, at least 2 of my group could do next to zero damage, even if they had 10 trillion intelligence. All ehile good ol’ physical is doing 100% all day every day.

Maybe you were undergeared or not properly comboing your skills, 4 mages should WRECK tactician. Maybe you unwisely had each character specialize in a separate magic skill, which is a bad idea, because it would be unwise to cast Fire on someone you just cast Ice and visa versa. You want all 4 people to specialize in 1 or 2 of the same magic skill. FIRE + FIRE = +15% more damage because of Warm, for example.

No enemy in the game has 100% all resistances and all enemies have at least one at 40% and boss-type enemies have lowest at 60%. That is EASY to overcome. 40% is literally just 2 points in Huntsman (free from gear) standing on high ground casting your magic for the +40% high ground bonus or +4 in Scoundrel for 40% more crit damage.

High Ground and crit damage bonus from Huntsman and Scoundrel stack with magical damage. Comboing Magic gives bonus damage or CC. Like casting fire causing Warm, casting fire again is +15% bonus damage. Casting Fire on Earth(posion/oil) causes a bonus explosion for bonus damage. Casting Ice to cause Chill and then casting Ice again for 15% more damage. Yeah, Physical does more but most enemies have half as less Magic Armor, like 500 Magic Armor to 1000 physical armor.

So no, I think you people are over exaggerating or do not understand the game mechanics.
最后由 Revolucas 编辑于; 2017 年 12 月 15 日 下午 3:05
Gamebot 2017 年 12 月 15 日 下午 4:36 
引用自 LinkZeppeloyd
It does not matter how high your intelligence is when resistance is 100%.
Do not hit high resistance enemies with the same type of magic.

引用自 LinkZeppeloyd
Most posts here are about how to uber stack spell damage, which is irrelevant and the entire point of the gripe.
No, high dps from AOE and low cost overruns resistance.

引用自 LinkZeppeloyd
At 410 hours, played on Tac with mixed groups, all magic and all physical, it is worth pointing out that magic becomes wildly inefficient in act 4.
I also played more than 400 hours,and it's irrelevant.

In act4, an Elemental Affinity Pyro Geo mage can wreck enemies in 70~80% of cases, and if enemies have high fire resistance, they always have low air resistance. So again, try not to hit high resistance enemies with the same type of magic.

引用自 LinkZeppeloyd
there are too many battles with too high and too many resistances.
High dps from AOE and low cost overruns resistance.

引用自 LinkZeppeloyd
And yet every battle, at least 2 of my group could do next to zero damage, even if they had 10 trillion intelligence.
It's because you were hitting high resistance enemies with the same type of magic. Don't do it.

引用自 LinkZeppeloyd
All ehile good ol’ physical is doing 100% all day every day.
Actually, physical dealers don't have many AOE skills. 2H can't use Bouncing Shield, and Bouncing Shield and Blitz hit only 2 targets. It's not AOE. Battering Ram does half the normal damage. Only viable AOE skills are Battle Stomp, Whirlwind, and Ricochet, and... maybe 2~3 more?

On the other hand, over 20~30 magic skills do AOE attacks.


Magic AOE skills increase dps by 3~5 times by simply attacking 3~5 enemies. Elemental Affinity increases dps by 150%~200% by cutting AP cost. These two factors increase the total dps roughly 4.5~10 times. It's not matter of opinion. they're facts and numbers. They easily overruns 0~40% resistance. I don't think it's hard to understand.

1. Hit 3~5 enemies with magic AOE skills. Control enemies with teleportation/nether swap.
2. Cut the AP cost by using Elemental Affinity.
3. Do not hit high resistance enemies with the same type of magic.
If your mage is weak, you're not doing one of these three.
最后由 Gamebot 编辑于; 2017 年 12 月 15 日 下午 10:50
Titanium Jesus 2017 年 12 月 15 日 下午 5:53 
Except, gamebot, an the very MANY casses where enemies have 80%+ resistance to EVERYTHING. Magic is gimped in the game becuase of the resistances; simple fact. They can't do dps on the consistant basis physical can. Can still beat the game of course, it doesn't prevent that, but it certainly reduces your overall dps.

Magic is usefull for the buffs really. not much more. Especially considering you can't give enemies statuses untill AFTER the armor is down,, by which poin it's pointless; yet the enemy can and often does put statuses on you THROUGH FULL magic armor.
Hobocop 2017 年 12 月 15 日 下午 5:58 
Glass Cannon.

You can count the number of instances enemies have 80%+ resistances to all elements on one hand.

Also, Flay Skin. By the time you're in mid-late Act 2, you should be able to spare a few points and a memory slot on SOMEBODY for it.
最后由 Hobocop 编辑于; 2017 年 12 月 15 日 下午 5:58
Gamebot 2017 年 12 月 15 日 下午 7:10 
引用自 Titanium Jesus
Except, gamebot, an the very MANY casses where enemies have 80%+ resistance to EVERYTHING.
Many cases? 80%+ resistance to EVERYTHING? Show me the screenshots. Who has 80%+ resistance to all?

Exaggerating and lying about it doesn't make it real.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1232754443
Fire 80
Water 20
Air 20
Earth 80
Poison 50
Karon hase Water 20% Air 20% resistance

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1232754394
Fire 60
Water 60
Air 20
Earth 0
Poison 20
Doctor Air 20% Earth 20% Poison 20%

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1232754348
Fire 10
Water 10
Air -30
Earth -50
Poison -30
Doctor Air-30% Earth-50% Poison-30% when he's weakened.


http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1232754468
Aetera is an unusual case, but she has low physical armor, so you can kill her on the first or second round with 2 decent physical dealers.
最后由 Gamebot 编辑于; 2017 年 12 月 15 日 下午 7:12
Revolucas 2017 年 12 月 15 日 下午 8:04 
Aetera is an unusual case, but she has low physical armor, so you can kill her on the first or second round with 2 decent physical dealers.
Or just charm the dogs and they kill her.


Edit:
If you look in unpacked game files, pretty sure you can look at all the NPC prefabs and their stats in Origins.pak, Characters.txt.
最后由 Revolucas 编辑于; 2017 年 12 月 15 日 下午 8:15
Titanium Jesus 2017 年 12 月 15 日 下午 9:15 
引用自 Hobocop
Glass Cannon.

You can count the number of instances enemies have 80%+ resistances to all elements on one hand.

Also, Flay Skin. By the time you're in mid-late Act 2, you should be able to spare a few points and a memory slot on SOMEBODY for it.

They aren't everywhere for sure, but there are more than handfull. Some trash mobs even have it. There have been several instances where my mages litterally just bufed and healed and nothings else for the entire fight, start to finish, as casting a single offensive spell was nothing more than a waste of AP for all the good they did. Most of the time it's something like 20% to most of them; which still prooves that magic damage is gimped overall as opposed to physical damage which nothing has a resistance to, physical damage also doesn't have the horrendously long cooldown times that magic does as the basic attack with bows or 2 handers does over a grand anyway; close to the damage of a lot of the mid-high level magic spells that don't require source points, and even some that do.
最后由 Titanium Jesus 编辑于; 2017 年 12 月 15 日 下午 9:37
Gamebot 2017 年 12 月 15 日 下午 10:49 
引用自 Titanium Jesus
Except, gamebot, an the very MANY casses where enemies have 80%+ resistance to EVERYTHING.
You didn't explain yourself about this statement. Was it just a simple lie? or a mistake? I think you should explain about it before starting another fake news.

引用自 Titanium Jesus
physical damage also doesn't have the horrendously long cooldown times that magic does
Cooldown is not an issue because all enemies will be dead before finishing 1 cycle. If not, there's something wrong with your build.

引用自 Titanium Jesus
the basic attack with bows or 2 handers does over a grand anyway; close to the damage of a lot of the mid-high level magic spells that don't require source points, and even some that do.
You're proving yourself that physical dealers don't have many AOE skills and mostly have to use basic attacks. Yes, mages hit 3~5 enemies with the very same damage, and Elemental Affinity saves cost by -1AP, so these factors increase the total dps by roughly 4.5~10 times.

引用自 Titanium Jesus
They aren't everywhere for sure, but there are more than handfull. Some trash mobs even have it. There have been several instances where my mages litterally just bufed and healed and nothings else for the entire fight, start to finish, as casting a single offensive spell was nothing more than a waste of AP for all the good they did. Most of the time it's something like 20% to most of them; which still prooves that magic damage is gimped overall as opposed to physical damage which nothing has a resistance to
No, are you not reading others' posts? High dps from AOE and low cost overruns resistance. No matter how many times physical dealers can hit with 0 resistance, they can't compete with mages after Act2.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1232754348
Fire 10
Water 10
Air -30
Earth -50
Poison -30

I wonder why 'High Resistance Believers' never talk about -50~0% resistance. Use Flay Skin and status effects on that. You are clearly not using them properly.

1. Hit 3~5 enemies with magic AOE skills. Control enemies with teleportation/nether swap.
2. Cut the AP cost by using Elemental Affinity.
3. Do not hit high resistance enemies with the same type of magic.
4. As many people have already been telling you many times in this thread, use Flay Skin. Don't just stand there doing nothing.
最后由 Gamebot 编辑于; 2017 年 12 月 15 日 下午 11:03
Skeleton Jelly 2017 年 12 月 15 日 下午 11:39 
引用自 Hobocop
You can count the number of instances enemies have 80%+ resistances to all elements on one hand.

Your hand has a lot of fingers.
Gamebot 2017 年 12 月 16 日 上午 12:10 
引用自 Buff Cookie
引用自 Hobocop
You can count the number of instances enemies have 80%+ resistances to all elements on one hand.

Your hand has a lot of fingers.
Do you have imaginary enemies? Show me 6 screenshots of enemies who have 80%+ resistance all.

It's hilarious. Having problems managing certain classes is one thing, but these high resistance believers keep making baseless rumors and fake news.
Hobocop 2017 年 12 月 16 日 上午 12:39 
One boss enemy who popped resistance potions suddenly = all enemies have massive resistances that are impossible to punch through despite said boss being surrounded by mooks just aching to be zapped to death.

Talk about cherry picking.

She's also undead btw, but ignore those fancy healing spells you might have on your bar, best to tunnel vision on an edge case instead of using all those other options. Next thing you know, we'll be complaining about physical damage dealers being useless because someone showed up with an Evasion Aura one time out of a hundred.
Skeleton Jelly 2017 年 12 月 16 日 上午 12:46 
I think you both have missed the point. The point has been explained to you multiple times, and you both attempt to derail the thread by talking sideways rather than forwards. Evidenced by your own cherrypicking of the data said to you. Reducing it down to talk of only one enemy, exclusively talking about 80%+ resistances only as the issue, or overly focusing on tagentally related issues.
raquel 2017 年 12 月 16 日 上午 1:01 
引用自 Hobocop

She's also undead btw, but ignore those fancy healing spells you might have on your bar, best to tunnel vision on an edge case instead of using all those other options. Next thing you know, we'll be complaining about physical damage dealers being useless because someone showed up with an Evasion Aura one time out of a hundred.
If she were undead, wouldn't she have 200% poison resist, not 100%? Isn't the entire marking mechanic (glitterdust or whatever) around precisely to counter Evading?

Unrelated, too, but Flay Skin only applies resistance lowering if it actually pierces magic armor, and it doesn't actually take off that much unless it's being cast from a high Strength stat. I haven't played in a bit, but that one really confused me while playing the game since getting through armor was the big problem in the first place.

Anyway, I do not have a dog in this particular fight, but - trying my best to be completely earnest here - you and Gamebot sound absolutely crazy. You keep jumping off topic, accusing people of wild things, and acting like this is really important to you somehow. It makes both of you look completely insane.
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发帖日期: 2017 年 12 月 13 日 下午 1:21
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