Any help with Rogue or Dagger Builds Anyone?

[Jack The Ripper]

I feel Rogues are fast and have good initiative, but I feel they just don't do ENOUGH damage to outclass the damage of a Two-hander or the tankiness of of sword and shield. They just don't seem to do much. Any tips on how to "get gud" with Rogue?

[Greb]

Use all the juicy burst damage on the most lethal enemy in the group, preferably starting the fight with a sneak attack if you're able to do so. Then before you run out of AP, pop Adrenaline Rush and Chameleon Cloak and run out of there, enter sneak mode somewhere sneaky but not too far away that combat ends, then wait for your skills to recharge. Do it again and again until everything is dead.

That's if you're playing solo, anyway. If you're in a group, they're simply best designed for entering combat after combat has already begun, so enemies can't look around. Rogue sneaks in, gets into position, does some nice burst damage on the highest threat enemy, and then the rest of the group handles the chaff. Et cetera.

If it wasn't changed in Definitive Edition, you can backstab with thrown objects so long as you're holding a dagger. For fun, try making a crate ninja who uses telekinesis to throw reinforced crates and barrels stuffed with heavy stuff into the backs of enemies. There's nothing like hitting a backstab critical with a crate that weighs 1000 pounds.

[gregfromthepeg]

Use both your scoundrel and warfare skills. I always use Backlash to get in backstab position on enemies with low phys armour, then adrenaline, then I can usually strip their phys armour AND knock them down om the first turn. They aren't amazing but I am finding it useful so far. It is my first run with a rogue.

[Chaoslink]

Good initiative... Don't tell me you're stacking Wits...

Finesse. Pump it. You won't need wits, the critical chance is wasted on a dagger user. The initiative too, as you shouldn't be in combat from the start and will take the last slot in the turn order by coming in late. Dump pretty much every point you can into Finesse, a few memory for abilities.

Skills, you'll want an even mix of scoundrel and Warfare. Warfare will boost your base damage more than any other skillpoint and give you access to knockdowns. Scoundrel will boost the damage bonus of your critical backstabs. Take a point or two in poly as well for cloaking.

Start combat with your team and leave the rogue behind. Let combat progress until one of your characters goes last (delay their turn to achieve the very last turn of the cycle). Have the rogue sneak in, using cloak and dagger to leap past the vision cones and get into position. Then attack the biggest threat they can get behind. Then you can finish the other character's turn and the rogue can go. You can end your turn casting cloak on yourself to remain hidden. If you stack various elemental effects like Venom Coating, Sparking Swings, crafted elements on your weapon, find innate elemental damage on weapons, insert magic runes in them and so on, you can get your daggers to strip magic armor just as effectively as they strip physical armor. If you strip both, then you rogue serves anyone in your team.

Oh, and they're better than sword and shield in terms of tankiness. I'd recommend never going 1H and shield. Ever. There's nothing valuable in that build, easily being the weakest and least useful builds you can go. Dagger and shield (yes that's a thing) does the exact same thing, but with a better magic to physical armor ratio due to its finesse armor. It also has better damage output as the backstabs will make even a single dagger out damage a one handed STR weapon, and you gain access to all the scoundrel abilities in addition to Warfare ones. Beyond roleplay reasons, there is never a reason to go sword and board.

Another neat trick is to use ambidextrous. At any time, you can unequip your second dagger (or shield) to gain access to sucker punch (a 1AP light damage knockdown) as well as be able to throw grenades and cast scrolls for 1AP less each. With grenades like Tremors that can knock down everything in a wide radius, charm grenades that can mind control enemies to fight for you or shock grenades to stun things, you can open up so many opportunities mid-fight. Unequipping a weapon costs no AP but it'll cost 1 to put it back. So usually you only drop it mid fight and make do with just one until the fight ends. Use the consumables to lock down enemies with CC effects and let the others deal the damage.

[eglepe]

1H+Shield is great for Summoners, tankiest and most flexible build by far. Damage isn't amazing but as a support for a magic nuker it works very well

[Player 2]

for me rogue/shadowblade is like a pawn. move first to control the battlefield.

dont forget to utilizing delay. delay turn after invisible/playing dead not just avoid getting attacked but also make you move 2 turn in a row after that, assuming you have high initiative.

[bullse]

sin tee guides ftw

[Stabbey]

If you're going to be backstabbing, a point into Huntsman is a good idea for the "Duck Duck Goose" Talent - enemy attacks of opportunity don't happen to you.

Also, have you considered splashing into a magic school for some utility buffs?

Aerothurge
I like Aerothurge for a Rogue because of the positioning skills it offers - Teleport, Netherswap, Smoke Cloud (and the Source version) and Uncanny Evasion are the best for a Rogue.

There are others which are more situational (and thus, only take those if you're really sure you want to) - but it's probably best not to get carried away with utility skills, as that requires more investment into Memory. So it's probably best to keep things to the basic useful skills.


Pyrokinetic
Much less utility, but it has some. A mixed party is required to take advantage, though. Torturer could work here though, which also has some synergy with Rogue skills causing bleeding.

- Haste is great for someone who wants to move fast and stab backs.
- Peace of Mind clears a lot of bad statuses and boosts all primary attributes and Wits, acting like a damage buff.
- Sabotage turns enemy grenades and arrows into ones that work for you by damaging them instead.
- Sparking Swings adds some free fire damage to your regular attacks. (Mixed party required for best use.)
- Throw Explosive Trap (Mixed party required for best use.)
- Flaming Tongues damages approaching enemies. (Mixed party required for best use.)
- Firebrand - more free fire damage. (Mixed party required for best use.)


Geomancer
Not great synergy with a Rogue. Torturer could help here with poison damage and Worm Tremor.

- Fortify to keep your armor up.
- Oily Carapace to remove Slowed if hit by enemy oil attacks.
- Venom coating for more free magic damage on top of your physical. (Mixed party required for best use.)
- Siphon Poison, maybe?

Hydrosophist
Keep your health up, create water surfaces and turn them to ice (which you can walk on freely with nails in your boots), but not great utility for a Rogue.
-

[Chaoslink]

Originally posted by eglepe:

1H+Shield is great for Summoners, tankiest and most flexible build by far. Damage isn't amazing but as a support for a magic nuker it works very well

Still, why not go dagger/shield for better damage, finesse armor for more balanced armor and the ability to use scoundrel abilities? There's no reason to go 1h/shield.

[eglepe]

I'm using the Crusader LW build from this guide https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1143412184
I don't think finesse and scoundrel would synergise very well with it

[Stabbey]

Originally posted by eglepe:

I'm using the Crusader LW build from this guide
I don't think finesse and scoundrel would synergise very well with it

Well, since this thread is asking for Rogue/Scoundrel builds, you're going off-topic.

[Godwoken Dovahkiin]

It's pretty easy tbh, your rogue should be an Elf (Flesh Sacrifice OP, you can Backlash into 2 auto attacks), Human ( +10% Critical Damage) or Fane (Time Warp OP, although it might be better on someone else so it's a matter of taste).

All points into Finesse obviously

Max Warfare to maximize your damage as it increases it multiplicative.
or
Max Scoundrel and get The Pawn for mobility, easier backstabs and some additive critical damage. Personally I prefer this one as mobility is extremely important since all your damage comes from your ability to backstab. You should be backstabbing 99% of the time with this.

If going the Warfare route, Bull Horns is pretty important IMO, pretty sure you can backstab with it too.

Rupture Tendons is a really good skill, pair it up with Chicken Claw and you can instantly take out 1 enemy from a fight, this only applies to Archers or Mages as they have low armor.

Backlash > Rupture Tendons > Adrenaline > Chicken Claw is the bread and butter combo. You have 1 AP left so you cast Uncanny Evasion or Chameleon Cloak to not get burst down in the enemy lines. The pro of this is that you can take out an enemy, the cons of it, you won't be able to do much next turn as you will have 2 AP thanks to adrenaline. Using haste on your Rogue prior will let them do the combo but will be in danger of a counter attack. The best way to use this combo is with an Elf, all it takes is one haste and with flesh sacrifice you'll have 6 AP, enough for the full combo + Stealth or Evasion and you don't suffer from the adrenaline downside.

Sawtooth Knife is good against your mage's targets, since they have full armor you can bypass it and deal damage straight to health.

Corrupted Blade sets up physical damage if you have a healer on your team.

If you're good at math you can use Mortal Blow to finish some enemies off with some decent HP.

There's also an elemental rogue build if you're interested.