Does anyone REALLY need constitution?

[Vicious]

I feel like soon as armor drops, I'm either dead, or CCd next turn even with pumping Con. So, whats the point, really?

Obviously, stats have a soft cap, and once you reach it, there's usually no other way to go but Constitution, and it WILL protect you occasionally. But, I don't believe it should be anyone's focus. Not even tanks.

I recently switched my Summoner from a full Con build to a full Wit build, which is arguably a MORE useless stat, but it ensures my party, and she goes first, and I feel like I'm actually doing better.

As for the front liners, all/most of them are likely going to take Warfare for its incredible damage boost, and with that, if you REALLY need it, the Picture of health talent.

[Vacca]

Nop. CON is a dead stat.

[Råb!d]

Originally posted by Vacca:

Nop. CON is a dead stat.

It is? Where did you read this?

[Jackal]

it's useless besides the requirement to use shield, no point to invest anything on it since first damage has to bypass your physical and magic armors, so even a tank doesn't really need this

[Vicious]

Originally posted by Vacca:

Nop. CON is a dead stat.

Figured, jsut disappointed it took me this long to actually realize it. :P

So then, what's the stat hierarchy?

Fin/Str/Int are on top for obvious reasons
Memory doesn't actually DO much, but is damn good to have
And then, I'm not sure where Con and Wit go. Wit is useless 99% of the time, but having 1 high Wit member ensures you go first every time, and secrets are nice. And Con can occasionally save you, maybe?

Originally posted by jfcaldeira:

it's useless besides the requirement to use shield, no point to invest anything on it since first damage has to bypass your physical and magic armors, so even a tank doesn't really need this

Wait, Sheilds require Con?

[Frater]

Originally posted by Vicious:

Originally posted by Vacca:

Nop. CON is a dead stat.

Figured, jsut disappointed it took me this long to actually realize it. :P

So then, what's the stat hierarchy?

Fin/Str/Int are on top for obvious reasons
Memory doesn't actually DO much, but is damn good to have
And then, I'm not sure where Con and Wit go. Wit is useless 99% of the time, but having 1 high Wit member ensures you go first every time, and secrets are nice. And Con can occasionally save you, maybe?

well,wits and savage sortillege is pretty great,especially if you rely on grenades and scrolls

[Vacca]

Originally posted by Råb!d:

Originally posted by Vacca:

Nop. CON is a dead stat.

It is? Where did you read this?

Because all it does is give you more hp, and if you're taking consistent hp damage you're out of the fight regardless. Take CON points for the armor/shield requirements and be off with it.

Having a huge health pool in this game is very useful. Too bad that it's called "physical armor" and "magical armor". Vitality should be renamed "seconds remaining to your death".

[nerdcommando.gamestudios]

Unstable + 10 Warfare + maxed out constitution (as Picture of Health bonus is multiplication of the constitution HP pool) = fun times. Just don't forget to turn some nasheeds on.

[Castille]

I've maxed con, at lv 18 i think i have over 15,000 HP along with picture of health. And i've built up retaliation to 24, so 120% deflect damage. I can't die, and they sure as hell die when they hit me :)

[Tawm]

The longer your tank is alive, the more AP the enemy will waste trying to take it down. Combine that with Morning Person, and the rest of your party will be able to focus on killing the enemy almost exclusively. I'm not sure how the game is played or how the difficulty is below Tactician, but it's not a useless stat. Armor has a limit.

[Winger]

I agree on being constitution not very useful and once you're at a point where you're taking damage directly to your health - i.e. you're just dinner, the numbers ensure you are going to lose.

However I think this is more related to armor restoration being the main issue.

Armor restoring skills grant much, much less armor than the amount of damage one enemy will do to you in a turn thus if you actuallly try to keep your armor up with skills and spells, you will be at an increasing disadvantage in terms of damage done - received. The opposite is not true for enemy combatants because they actually restore meaningful amounts due to AI buffs.

When you spend action points not to damage your enemy but to try to band-aid your team members to no avail, you lose, simple as that.

I'm running a 2-man lone wolf party on tactician, I'm at the end of act 2 and I never, ever use any kind of restoration skill (fortify, restoration, etc.). Since adopting this approach to combat (ignoring your own armor values and focusing on CC and escape options) my tough moments have been very few and far between.

TL;DR: The reason for CON being useless imho, is the ineffectiveness of armor restoration options.

[Vicious]

Originally posted by Winger86:

I agree on being vitality not very useful and once you're at a point where you're taking damage directly to your health, the numbers ensure you are going to lose.

However I think this is more related to armor restoration being the main issue.

Armor restoring skills grant much, much less armor than the amount of damage one enemy will do to you in a turn thus if you actuallly try to keep your armor up with skills and spells, you will be at an increasing disadvantage in terms of damage done - received. The opposit is not true for enemy combatants because they actually restore meaningful amounts due to AI buffs.

When you spend action points not to damage your enemy but to try to band-aid your team members to no avail, you lose, simple as that.

I'm running a 2-man lone wolf party on tactician, I'm at the end of act 2 and I never, ever use any kind of restoration skill (fortify, restoration, etc.). Since adopting this approach to combat (ignoring your own armor values and focusing on CC and escape options) my tough moments have been very few and far between.

TL;DR: The reason for CON being useless imho, is the ineffectiveness of armor restoration options.

Have you tried Bone Armor? Bone Armor seems to restore insane ammounts of armor more ofthen than not, and will usually give you extra.

I think the issue isn't so much "hp is bad" rather than "armor is far too good".

[Winger]

Originally posted by Vicious:

Have you tried Bone Armor? Bone Armor seems to restore insane ammounts of armor more ofthen than not, and will usually give you extra.

I think the issue isn't so much "hp is bad" rather than "armor is far too good".

Oh yes, bone armor is the only restoration option which I find worthy of consideration but dependency on corpses makes it somewhat situational so I forgo that one as well.

Armor being too good is looking at the issue from another angle which I hadn't considered. Perhaps that's exactly the case.

[Cyrus]

Originally posted by Vicious:

I think the issue isn't so much "hp is bad" rather than "armor is far too good".

For me its more a "Once armor is gone your just CCd consistently" issue. Especially with so many AoE effects / ground effects. After a couple turns if you don't have phys/mag armor your just sitting there doing nothing..

And that's not really a CON being worthless issue, its more of a "CC/armor mechanic is broken" issue.

Having your tank with more CON is semi-useful as any hits they do take (while CCd forever) is one less hit you others don't have to take.

[Andreas]

Originally posted by Vicious:

I feel like soon as armor drops, I'm either dead, or CCd next turn even with pumping Con. So, whats the point, really?

Obviously, stats have a soft cap, and once you reach it, there's usually no other way to go but Constitution, and it WILL protect you occasionally. But, I don't believe it should be anyone's focus. Not even tanks.

I recently switched my Summoner from a full Con build to a full Wit build, which is arguably a MORE useless stat, but it ensures my party, and she goes first, and I feel like I'm actually doing better.

As for the front liners, all/most of them are likely going to take Warfare for its incredible damage boost, and with that, if you REALLY need it, the Picture of health talent.

I put put 20 points on my tank characters and it helps but with out armor and magic resist it is pretty much useless like you said.

[Buckhead2015]

I haven't put any points into my level 6 lone wolf front line dwarf. All points have gone to strength. I've been using blood sucker and potions to restore health during battles. So, are y'all saying that I need to start putting points into constitution to prepare my dwarf for later levels?