Help needed. Spoiler warning, read at your own risk.

[PaddeMcnasty]

I need some help in terms of understanding the game at it's core. I'm a long time rpg player, i fully realize that gear and skills and the level that comes with it, is mighty important. I managed to work my way through fort joy and the island it's on, had some trouble here and there but nothing some extra thinking couldn't solve.

Now here's where it gets nasty, i'm on classic difficulty, the kind that i like best as the easy mode often turns out to be too easy. Anyway, i'm on the lady vengeance, and dallis attacks. The geists she has with her, are like five times stronger than the ones i've faced! They hit for well over a hundred, and rip through my squadron in just a few turns. Hell, the only ones that live are my ranged ones, but they too bite the dust eventually.

What do? I already geared up as much as i could using the trader on the ship in dallis' quarters. Each of my companions has atleast five to six strong and versatile skills, fitting to what they do. My own character is an enchanter, conjuring up heals, ice, and lightning. He has alot of magic armour, not as much in physical but that's okay, he's supposed to be in the back row anyhow.

Then i got beast, who i made my tank/warlock ish kinda guy. Around 240 physical armour, sword and shield combo, your regular versatile warrior type. Then i've Fane for that added magic pressure, deals good damage, AoE, and sets everything on fire (which i like). And last but not least, sebile, my dagger wielding rogue who has 90/90 ish kind of armor that relies on heavy critical damage via backstabbing.

So far, most fights had me hurting, but more often than not, everyone survived, having to only use the occasional resurrecting scroll. But! Now i'm dealing with dallis, i'm getting smacked all over the place and i've no clue what i'm missing here. Could a veteran explain some tips? I know i'm doing *something* wrong, i just need to know what. To summarize, i tried focusing each member into doing what they do best, be it magic, fighting, or sneaky stabby action. Second, i always try to get them the best armour at all times if i can afford it. I don't cheese the game much using those bartering techniques but i always have around 4 to 5K in gold, plus ofcourse all the items i find during exploration, as i explore *alot*. Think i plucked the island clean in terms of items, so i went aboard and yadayada, fast forward to dallis aaaaand i'm stuck. Please help.

[corisai]

Originally posted by RIP PaddeMcnasty:

Now i'm dealing with dallis, i'm getting smacked all over the place and i've no clue what i'm missing here. Could a veteran explain some tips?

Dallis fight is one of VERY few dps checks in game. So any stuggles there show that your chars builds are not-optimal at best (same with your gear). Your chars simply can't output enough damage to make fight managable.

Good party on classic should wipe all attackers before ship escape. It's even possible on tactician, but depend on mob AI behavior and some luck.

Advices huh.

Mind maggot grenade? :) [jar of mind maggots + either empty grenade or empty can, unsure exactly]

Give them to your most initiative char and throw into enemies (a lot of them start without magic armor). Instant charm = win.

Plus before fight remove harmfull barrels from high ground and put them where enemies will spawn :)

[Gregorovitch]

If you listen to Malady and the start of the fight, she tells you it's a fight you can't win but that she has a trick up her sleave if you can manage to hold them off for just a little while. What she doesn't tell you is what a "little while" means or what "hold them off" actually means in practice for surviving the encounter. This is Larian after all, they don't tell you that sort of thing :)

The answers are:

You have to one character survive four turns (possibly five) and you have to prevent Dallis' crew from killing Malady. It doesn't matter how many of your guys get killed in the process (not all obviously), this is the one occasion in the game you get a free party rez afterwards

And the classic tactic to adress this is:

You teleport Malady as far back towards the stern of the ship as you can, which in practice is a pretty long way, and then you throw everything you've got into hampering Dallis' adds from getting to her. Oil is an obvious choice for doing this, so are any summons you've got and just putting your chars in harms way. You always start the battle in the same position so the key is to equip the Gloves of Teleportation on your char that starts nearest to the stern of the ship (if they don't already have Teleport obviously). You will probably want to concentrate on making sure the two Ghiests can't get to her as they will pretty much 1-shot her given half a chance

[corisai]

Originally posted by Gregorovitch:

And the classic tactic to adress this is:

If player can't kill both gheists in two rounds (and without that guys malady is 100% safe), or at worst - control in second, kill in third - that player will have some troubles later and should think about how to optimise his party.

Some hints :
*memory over 15 is bad idea to anyone but dedicated zdps support.
*constitution over 10 is bad idea ... (same).
*you can max only two skills at end of game (except lone wolves ofk). So think about it - what two skills will boost themselves?
*warfare is mandatory maxed up to 10 for all physical damage dealers before any other skills :)

[^4S^5ou^4L]

You only have to last and protect the caster for a few turns.
Focus on movement ( Polymorph can give you wings for example ) and defending the caster.
First thing I do is team up and the back of the ship, at that time you only have to do a few encounters. You can also use teleport on the caster to transfer her more back if needed.

[Gregorovitch]

Originally posted by corisai:

If player can't kill both gheists in two rounds (and without that guys malady is 100% safe), or at worst - control in second, kill in third - that player will have some troubles later and should think about how to optimise his party.

Good point, I added that to my spoiler. It's not that hard though, I found. Once you understand that danger, they're not tnat tough, they can be killed, they can be slowed.

[PaddeMcnasty]

Thankyou kindly for your responces! I forgot to say that i was indeed aware that the person in question had a trick up her sleeve. (I've no idea how to do them spoiler tags so i'll just be vague about it) Also corisai, you're very right. But, killing them in two rounds? Hot dang, i got my party wrong as hell then. I'll reroll the constitution then, as i thought it'd be a huge help to have my frontline fighters have some decent constitution. But! Considering you're saying this is a bad idea, i'll remove all those points, put them back to 10, and invest it elsewhere and experiment.

[Gregorovitch]

Originally posted by RIP PaddeMcnasty:

(I've no idea how to do them spoiler tags so i'll just be vague about it)

[$poiler]......[/$poiler] :)

(replace '$' with 's')

[corisai]

Originally posted by RIP PaddeMcnasty:

as i thought it'd be a huge help to have my frontline fighters have some decent constitution.

You aren't taken armor in mind.

If your frontline fighters receive HP damage = they may be controlled by enemy (and enemy will do it, especially on tactician). You will need to save them from CC (and restore some armor).

So it's very simply situation : if it's hard fight with a lot of hard enemies, then loosing armor and getting CC'ed = death sentence. And HP increase per 1 point of constitution is too low to change it.

In case remaining half-dead enemies it's worthless, you will win in any case.

Also melees have talent that boost their hp for every warfare skill point in middle-late game to help them survive some hits.

And finally - shield users have too low damage output if compared with two-handeds fighters or dual-wind rogues (rogues will shine only in mid-late game)*.

*actually in late game shields have only one usage : to save poor one with leadership 16-18 from being killed, because everyone will try to hit him/her.

[PaddeMcnasty]

Much obliged! The more i learn, the better this game becomes to me.

[THAC0]

I Learned teleport was a god send along time ago.

[Eclipse]

This game is about damage per turn.Just max core stats that contribute (int and str) and use aoe skills with greatest damage.Also if you want to maximize damage use only one type of damage (phys or magic). Sure you can play it normal way (tank+heal etc.) but this is a hardcore build (esp. on heroic) if you want challenge.

[Qiox]

Originally posted by RIP PaddeMcnasty:

Now here's where it gets nasty, i'm on classic difficulty, the kind that i like best as the easy mode often turns out to be too easy. Anyway, i'm on the lady vengeance, and dallis attacks. The geists she has with her, are like five times stronger than the ones i've faced! They hit for well over a hundred, and rip through my squadron in just a few turns. Hell, the only ones that live are my ranged ones, but they too bite the dust eventually.

What level are you?

[PaddeMcnasty]

By now, nine.

[Draconiya]

Originally posted by corisai:

Good party on classic should wipe all attackers before ship escape. It's even possible on tactician, but depend on mob AI behavior and some luck.

Those are the words of a min-maxer. The REAL goal of that encounter is to keep Malady alive as long as it takes for her to finish the spell to teleport all of you and the Lady Vengeance out of there. You're not really meant to win that fight, you can only escape it. Unless, of course, you abuse Lone Wolf, are already level 9 and minmax everything from the ground up. It's not a particularily fun way to play in my opinion, as it takes away all the challenge of combat.

OP, what combat schools are you using on Beast? Usually, splitting points between Strength, Finesse and/or Intelligence instead of focusing on one of them is bad, and a "fighter/warlock type" sounds similar to a Battlemage.

Don't listen to corisai, killing the Gheists in two turns is madness, especially for your first playthrough. Instead you should be focusing on protecting Malady, by giving her armor, heals, teleporting her away from danger, and slowing, disabling and/or hard-CCing high-damage enemies like the Gheists, Weaponized Monks and Archers. The mages are not really a problem, since Malady has a lot of magic armor. You could place one of your ranged characters right behind Malady so the Gheists can't backstab her, start off with slowing/icing the two stairways up to Malady so most enemies can't even reach her, and pick them off one by one. If you can CC, that's brilliant, but if you can kill, it's even better, because the CC is permanent, so to speak.

What level are you, by the way? 90 of both armor types seems a little low for your Rogue, to be honest, so you might want to check if a piece of low-level gear escaped your upgrading spree. I'd make sure as many members of your party as possible have some kind of movement skill - Tactical Retreat from Huntsman, Spread Your Wings from Polymorph, Cloak & Dagger from Scoundrel, Teleport/Nether Swap from Aerotheurge, Phoenix Dive/Blitz Attack (both of which aren't available until you get to the Act 2 city) for Warfare, etcetera. Position your healer/armor restorers near Malady or at least within line of sight of her so you can keep her alive if she's being dove.

Lastly, 5-6 skills per character seems a little low for your level. There are a few Seekers who sell skillbooks on the Lady Vengeance (Gareth for Warfare, Samadel for Pyrokinetic, the healer lady whose name I forgot for Hydrosophist, and others). I'd recommend you try and see if they have any skills that could be useful for you. If you're full on memory slots, respec some of those slightly less useful constitution points into Memory at the mirror on the lowest deck.

Unless you've already passed the Dallis ship battle by now, in which case, I hope my advice has been helpful anyway. Have fun! :)

Originally posted by corisai:

And finally - shield users have too low damage output if compared with two-handeds fighters or dual-wind rogues (rogues will shine only in mid-late game)*.

*actually in late game shields have only one usage : to save poor one with leadership 16-18 from being killed, because everyone will try to hit him/her.

Rogues can shine as early as Fort Joy.

Characters who NEVER use auto attack, only skills, should be using a shield. Such characters are Hydro/Aero and Pyro/Geo who should be using a wand with the best bonuses available, not best damage & a shield to improve their survivability.


May I kindly ask you to stop spreading your narrow-minded ideas of which builds work and which don't, and what the expected performance (e.g. killing those Gheists in two turns at lvl 8, a.k.a. near-impossible standards) to first-time players who'll get the completely wrong idea what's good enough just because of you. (To others: yes, you don't have to absolutely flatten the enemy within one turn to be a well-built party, despite what this guy keeps preaching.)

Not everyone wants to minmax. Most people just want to have fun playing the game and not get stuck because of absolutely terrible builds, but are fine with medium efficiency builds that don't suck the last out of every single point for maximum wrecking capacity, because that makes the game boring even on Tactician, at least in my opinion, which I know many people share.

And if you were about to call me a noob who's whining because someone else is better; I have never died more than once on my playthrough with a split party, no Lone Wolf, and, in your own words, a "suboptimal party composition". I could easily start a Tactician playthrough with a Lone Wolf Pyro/Geo wizard who deletes everything in their path within two turns or less, but it's just boring to me. Part of the fun of this game is the need for tactics, at least imo, and if I take that away by optimizing my builds to the limit, the game itself gets boring. This might be fun for you, but don't impose your own subjective beliefs and idea of fun onto others who might just want to casually play through the game without combat being a total cakewalk, but also without having to cheese every single encounter.

/rant over

[Seether]

Hmm...a few thoughts:

(1) You can use the ballistae on your ship. The ballista closest to Dallis' ship does not do much damage. The ballista furthest from Dallis' ship near the bow doesn't seem to do much damage. The ballista furthest from Dallis ship near the stern does a ton of damage. I don't know why they vary, but that last ballista can do 1000 damage per hit.

(2) My first character to act was Sebille, who I spec'd as a rogue. I moved her toward that last ballista. She can't reach it in turn 1 (almost), but she can in turn 2. I used tactical retreat on my archer to get him to the top of the forward mast (an enemy archer will jump up there, too). I moved my healer near the forward mast (not sure if that's brilliant or not), and my tank stayed near Malady. I did everything I could to spread oil and fire on the lower deck. I teleported Malady so that her back was against the front of the rear deck (in front of the wheel) so that an enemy couldn't get directly behind her. I think I also teleported a gheist into the center of the flames in the middle of the lower deck.

(3) On turn 2, Sebille could fire the ballista. She will turn and fire at the nearest enemy. Conveniently, by teleporting one of the gheists into the center of the fire on turn 1, that made him the closest and she one-shotted it. I'm pretty sure the gheist's movement ability put the second gheist in range as the closest on the next turn or so. Anyway, she would one-shot an enemy during turns 2 through 5. My tank ran interference for Malady. My archer and healer just dealt damage from afar.

(4) Stay fairly away from Dallis' ship, and Dallis and the mage can't do much to you. They will not come onto the Vengeance unless you move Malady to the rear deck. If you do that, be warned...the enemy mage will teleport onto that deck.

(5) That was more than enough to keep Malady alive for the 5 turns she needed to cast. I don't think we killed all the enemies on deck, but we got all but maybe one or two.

Hope this helps.