Anyone else think the loot and equipment system could be improved?

[Greywolf]

Specifically talking about the system where loot keeps getting exponentially better to the point where it completely outclasses your old gear and you constantly need to find better gear in order to progress. Case in point the weapon you start the game with does 6-7 damage, the weapon you end the game with does over 40x as much damage and I have lost count of how many incremental upgrades there are in between.

While I understand part of an RPG is finding new gear and getting stronger the rate at which you aquire gear makes any gear you do aquire feel mundane and insignificant as it is just going to be replaced 5 minutes later and I just don't feel that equipment should have THAT steep an improvement in quality as to make only the items you aquire late game viable for the end content.

Take for instance a game like Baldur's gate 2, a game that does not have nearly the ammount of equipment DOS2 has, while you don't aquire gear as fast as you do in DOS2 when you finally do get a new piece of gear it does feel far more significant amd rewarding, and while some weapons in the game are objectively better they don't get so overpoweredly better than the other weapons as to make them obsolete in conflicts later down the line, at most most weapon types only go up to +3 with +5 being the max in the expansion (twohanders being the exception at +6 with Carsomyr and sometimes you might prefer a lower level weapon due to the unique effects attributed to some weapons, in DOS2 you kind of have to keep upgrading your weapon because if you don't use armour or equipment at the level of the encounter you wont have enough physical damage to knock down an enemy's shield or you wont have enough armour to protect yourself from statuses and as a result there is no real attachment to any weapons or armour that comes before that. Take Braccus's armour for instance, this should be a significant find as it belonged to the most ruthless tyrant in the world's history but as soon as you have all the pieces of the armour it is pretty much rendered obsolete within 5 minutes as you find some green leggings that outclass it in everyway.

To be fair this is more of a criticism of modern RPGs as a whole as a lot of games use the same sort of system but I gotta wonder does anyone agree with me on this? Is there better ways to do this?

[Garbage Factory]

Fairly common opinion from what I've seen. I agree with it, though I do understand how exponential power growth makes progression much easier to notice.

This mod may help alleviate the problem, if you don't mind missing out on achievements:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1142608415

[HugsAndSnuggles]

Originally posted by Greywolf:

To be fair this is more of a criticism of modern RPGs as a whole as a lot of games use the same sort of system but I gotta wonder does anyone agree with me on this? Is there better ways to do this?

Kind of. All multiplicative progressions are good at, is gating game content (at the cost of immersion).

Dark souls does this betrer, IMO: sword you find at the start of the game is still usable at the end of it, just different from other swords you find.

[BloodNog]

I agree, and as you say it is more of a trend with certain types of rpgs these days. It is a way to satisfy the younger generation of gamers. That being said, don't expect any change and just embrace modding.

[Greywolf]

Originally posted by Garbage Factory:

Fairly common opinion from what I've seen. I agree with it, though I do understand how exponential power growth makes progression much easier to notice.

This mod may help alleviate the problem, if you don't mind missing out on achievements:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1142608415

It is not an issue that stops me from enjoying the game and I think I would rather play the game the way it was initially balanced as there are a lot of design decisions from the rate at which loot is aquired and whatnot that can't as easily be fixed by a mod.

This is just a discussion topic asking what people's opinions are on systems like this and what they think, whether they like it the way it is and what benefits it provides or if there are other viable alternatives.

[Greywolf]

Originally posted by HugsAndSnuggles:

Originally posted by Greywolf:

To be fair this is more of a criticism of modern RPGs as a whole as a lot of games use the same sort of system but I gotta wonder does anyone agree with me on this? Is there better ways to do this?

Kind of. All multiplicative progressions are good at, is gating game content (at the cost of immersion).

Dark souls does this betrer, IMO: sword you find at the start of the game is still usable at the end of it, just different from other swords you find.

Yeah the Dark Souls method would certainly be another way and probably preferable to what is in the game but still not a system that I would personally pick, if your goal is to gate off content then I still think there are better methods however that being said this does not feel like a game that should have gated content, it does feel like you are supposed to have more freedom in which path you choose to take as there are several ways to progress and several ways to achieve an objective, however having one path locked and gated requiring better gear to pass seems to defeat that goal.

[HugsAndSnuggles]

Originally posted by Greywolf:

, it does feel like you are supposed to have more freedom in which path you choose to take as there are several ways to progress and several ways to achieve an objective, however having one path locked and gated requiring better gear to pass seems to defeat that goal.

As far as quest completion goes, it's pretty straightforward: optional enemies along the path A are the same level as optional enemies along the path B. Now, if you try 'speedrunning' the game, like skipping chunks of content by sneaking around and stuff - that's where it gets problematic (to be fair, even to the point where it can get problematic should you chose sneaking out of the fort instead of mass-murdering everything on sight like a good psychopathic sourcerer you are).

[Garbage Factory]

Originally posted by Greywolf:

Originally posted by Garbage Factory:

Fairly common opinion from what I've seen. I agree with it, though I do understand how exponential power growth makes progression much easier to notice.

This mod may help alleviate the problem, if you don't mind missing out on achievements:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1142608415

It is not an issue that stops me from enjoying the game and I think I would rather play the game the way it was initially balanced as there are a lot of design decisions from the rate at which loot is aquired and whatnot that can't as easily be fixed by a mod.

This is just a discussion topic asking what people's opinions are on systems like this and what they think, whether they like it the way it is and what benefits it provides or if there are other viable alternatives.

Fair enough. Just threw it out there since I found the item scaling to be a bit too ridiculous by the end of the game. I kept getting caught in a loop of needing to replace everything but not wanting to since I'd just need to do it again after a level up, so I'd put it off for the longest time. Doing a second playthrough with the mod to see if it's more enjoyable that way.

I think the scaling just gets a bit too out of control, and it always sucks to find a fun item only to realize you're going to replace it with something off of a vendor in a few hours. While it definitely makes it easy to see just how much stronger your character is becoming, I think it goes just a bit overboard, especially towards the back end of the game.

[Warbird]

To be very honest, i believe old games like Baldur's Gate 2 had it just right.

Items were not scaling and had no level dependencies nor any requirements.

And the non-generic or "unique" magic items that were usable really felt powerful and special most of the time. And these items you liked, you could use them for the WHOLE game if you wished. In DnD, items do not become less powerful as you level up.

A freakin halberd remains a halberd with the same properties for the whole game. It is simple, it is clear, it is good mechanic.

So when you found your Vorpal Blade, your Mace of Disruption, your Ring of Wizardry or your Cape of the Stars, you knew you coudl stick to these items for the whole game without fearing them to become obsolete.

Simply put, Diablo 3 style item progression is one of the worst system designed ever and i will always hate any form of system that use "level scaling".

DOS1 sadly also had that "scaling" but never as bad as it isi in DOS2.

In DOS2, using an item that is 2 levels behind is almost disabling. Seriously. Especially with that awful armor system.

[Hoo the fool]

Originally posted by Warbird:

To be very honest, i believe old games like Baldur's Gate 2 had it just right.

Items were not scaling and had no level dependencies nor any requirements.

And the non-generic or "unique" magic items that were usable really felt powerful and special most of the time. And these items you liked, you could use them for the WHOLE game if you wished. In DnD, items do not become less powerful as you level up.

A freakin halberd remains a halberd with the same properties for the whole game. It is simple, it is clear, it is good mechanic.

So when you found your Vorpal Blade, your Mace of Disruption, your Ring of Wizardry or your Cape of the Stars, you knew you coudl stick to these items for the whole game without fearing them to become obsolete.

Simply put, Diablo 3 style item progression is one of the worst system designed ever and i will always hate any form of system that use "level scaling".

DOS1 sadly also had that "scaling" but never as bad as it isi in DOS2.

In DOS2, using an item that is 2 levels behind is almost disabling. Seriously. Especially with that awful armor system.

+1

[PlotinusRedux]

Elrond: Anduril, Flame of the West, forged from the shards of Narsil.
Aragorn: What's the point, in a couple of hours any rusty sword from a random orc will be better.

[Prester]

Originally posted by Blood Meridian:

I agree, and as you say it is more of a trend with certain types of rpgs these days. It is a way to satisfy the younger generation of gamers. That being said, don't expect any change and just embrace modding.

trend these days? didnt know diablo was a 2k17 thing

[Sparhawk122]

The crafting system is too basic for my liking. do not even use it except to make lockpicks....

[Greywolf]

Originally posted by Prester:

Originally posted by Blood Meridian:

I agree, and as you say it is more of a trend with certain types of rpgs these days. It is a way to satisfy the younger generation of gamers. That being said, don't expect any change and just embrace modding.

trend these days? didnt know diablo was a 2k17 thing

It may not have started this gen but it certainly has become more prevalent these days, I believe even the new Assassin's creed is adopting something similar.

[Prester]

Originally posted by Sparhawk122:

The crafting system is too basic for my liking. do not even use it except to make lockpicks....

well. being able to buy epic gear on your level from every damn merchant doesnt exactly encourage crafting either

[Reffy]

Everytime I find a cool shiny weapon, it will be replaced very soon with a similar looking weapon that does more damage. It's no fun at all.