Mac don't forget about Mac.

[JII]

Mac mac mac mac mac mac mac +2zillion.

[⎛⎝Duckers McQuack⎠⎞]

Originally posted by vtal:

Originally posted by ⎛⎝Duckers⎠⎞:

You know that to have a mac that can play any gamers properly costs over 3 grand justfor one with a decent dedicated gpu? lol

I've been a .NET developer reaching 15 years now. And I bought my MacBook Pro about 4-5 years ago. I've been able to do all my research and reading from the Mac "side", and flip over to Parallels and develop in .NET, in what has been the most enjoyable experience in my career. I very much LOVE the way the MacBook is designed. The keyboard, the touchpad for the mouse, the crystal clear screen and cripsness, all these "little" things help its enjoyability.


The games I've been playing, have run the MacBook on the hotter scale, but in terms of the perception, it has never bothered me, and I'm bothered easily by jankness


So, the people that are advocating how the MacBook pro will melt and run show. I've been able to run 3 OS thorugh parallaels or a game like Divnitiy and 1 guest os, with build and compiling operations as I plan my next move in combat.


And my last point, the quote that you have there, where it talks about designers and multimedia... how is it that the type of requirements those disciplnes require as not complimenary to running games? Both are graphic and cpu intensive, and so if you can do your job smoothly for the jobs listed, it's not that far away from also running beautiful games smoothly. AND, the cost spent on it, has already been justified by the productivity it enables ($$) and therefore that same machine actually SAVES money, as I no longer needa gaming laptop and a working laptop, and double the maintenace with pathes, upgrades, (drivers? havent had to mess with that on my Mac ever)

Yeh, that's what a macbook is good for. Non gaming stuff. I've had a macbook pro myself, and i tried playing skyrim on it. I got 60 fps on lowest in 720p, but the imput lag was attrocious.

But for video/photo editing? Marvelous! But for it's price tag? no way hosay am i getting a mac again. Rather just build a pc for 6-800 with the specs of a 2.5-3 grand imac and run macOS on it.

[Dorok]

Originally posted by ⎛⎝Duckers⎠⎞:

But for it's price tag? no way hosay am i getting a mac again. Rather just build a pc for 6-800 with the specs of a 2.5-3 grand imac and run macOS on it.

Price isn't a problem or you never buy any Mac, that's clear.

Now sure buy your next PC, then you'll hardly find anything else than one with windows 10, for now despite it is already a service, you won't pay a fee per month or year, but this should come. Secondly windows 10 isn't all bad, but it has serious boredom with the forced updates politic, it's so boring.

So at end you'll install linux on your PC, and ok and I admit it's a faire alternative, except it's no way and from far the polishing of an OSX.

I don't care the price, I mainly use a Mac even for playing, I have about 700 mac games on digital including close to 500 on Steam. Most of the time windows 10 don't bore me thanks to OSX and for a few rare game I switch between bootcamp and OSX in 10/20s which is fine for a play session of the few rare game I play anyway with windows 10.

And if no mac version of DOS2 ever come I'll do it, but for now I'll wait the Mac version, even if right now I'm playing a windows game.

[vtal]

Originally posted by ⎛⎝Duckers⎠⎞:

Originally posted by vtal:

I've been a .NET developer reaching 15 years now. And I bought my MacBook Pro about 4-5 years ago. I've been able to do all my research and reading from the Mac "side", and flip over to Parallels and develop in .NET, in what has been the most enjoyable experience in my career. I very much LOVE the way the MacBook is designed. The keyboard, the touchpad for the mouse, the crystal clear screen and cripsness, all these "little" things help its enjoyability.


The games I've been playing, have run the MacBook on the hotter scale, but in terms of the perception, it has never bothered me, and I'm bothered easily by jankness


So, the people that are advocating how the MacBook pro will melt and run show. I've been able to run 3 OS thorugh parallaels or a game like Divnitiy and 1 guest os, with build and compiling operations as I plan my next move in combat.


And my last point, the quote that you have there, where it talks about designers and multimedia... how is it that the type of requirements those disciplnes require as not complimenary to running games? Both are graphic and cpu intensive, and so if you can do your job smoothly for the jobs listed, it's not that far away from also running beautiful games smoothly. AND, the cost spent on it, has already been justified by the productivity it enables ($$) and therefore that same machine actually SAVES money, as I no longer needa gaming laptop and a working laptop, and double the maintenace with pathes, upgrades, (drivers? havent had to mess with that on my Mac ever)

Yeh, that's what a macbook is good for. Non gaming stuff. I've had a macbook pro myself, and i tried playing skyrim on it. I got 60 fps on lowest in 720p, but the imput lag was attrocious.

But for video/photo editing? Marvelous! But for it's price tag? no way hosay am i getting a mac again. Rather just build a pc for 6-800 with the specs of a 2.5-3 grand imac and run macOS on it.

One experience does not make it a universal experience. Also the price of the MacBook is irrelevant to the opposition, that games should not be made for it. I had an issue with Divinity and the very thing you mention about Skyrim. When I changed it to the "fake fullscreen", it ran smooth and beatiful. Don't know what solution that is required for Skyrim, but MacBooks can run games just fine.


I agree that it is good for those things grapics, compilation, builds, and stuff like that, but you haven't really (even logically) shown me why it's not good for games? If it's your Skyrim experience, fine, but that's not really persuasive enough. And if it can handle graphic tasks well such as described before, again, why does that stop at running games well?

[Tikigod]

Originally posted by vtal:

Originally posted by ⎛⎝Duckers⎠⎞:

Yeh, that's what a macbook is good for. Non gaming stuff. I've had a macbook pro myself, and i tried playing skyrim on it. I got 60 fps on lowest in 720p, but the imput lag was attrocious.

But for video/photo editing? Marvelous! But for it's price tag? no way hosay am i getting a mac again. Rather just build a pc for 6-800 with the specs of a 2.5-3 grand imac and run macOS on it.

One experience does not make it a universal experience. Also the price of the MacBook is irrelevant to the opposition, that games should not be made for it. I had an issue with Divinity and the very thing you mention about Skyrim. When I changed it to the "fake fullscreen", it ran smooth and beatiful. Don't know what solution that is required for Skyrim, but MacBooks can run games just fine.


I agree that it is good for those things grapics, compilation, builds, and stuff like that, but you haven't really (even logically) shown me why it's not good for games? If it's your Skyrim experience, fine, but that's not really persuasive enough. And if it can handle graphic tasks well such as described before, again, why does that stop at running games well?

It's not just the machine, but the OS they're bundled with.

Apple have gone to great lengths to make games development a headache for developers. For many years they refused to provide solid OpenGL support in OSX which meant what should be a decent platform-neutral API for developers to use to target their games across Windows, Linux and OSX required additional development work in the OSX area just to deliver partially acceptable performance levels due to how badly OSX supported OpenGL.

Then Apple seemed to recognise the error of their ways and got themselves involved in the very early efforts with AMDs Mantle API which set out to offer a modern platform neutral API (Which eventually became the framework for Vulkan which is largely still a more matured and fleshed out Mantle).... however after a while of being involved, Apple pulled out of all involvement and decided to take what they had learned from their Mantle involvement to instead develop their own OSX/iOS exclusive API called 'Metal', and announced they would not be providing Vulkan support in OSX.... because everyone needs to use Metal when providing software to Apple users.

So the idea behind Metal is that any developer wanting to develop a title for Apple devices would now have to utilise Metal, to push this home further they very much just stopped any serious effort to clean up support for OpenGL altogether, and like said before Apple went so far as to make sure OSX wouldn't directly support a platform-neutral API that was meant to make things easier for developers and allow users to have access to software regardless to if they were using Windows, Linux, OSX or even Consoles.

This meant that developers wanting to create a modern technique capable multi-platform targeted title now had 3 options.

1) Develop on Windows with Direct X, offer Vulkan supoort for all other platforms except OSX which then required porting everything to work with Metal.

2) Focus on Vulkan (Or if you didn't want some newer techniques OpenGL) for pretty much every platofmr except OSX. And then spend time porting everything to work with Metal just for OSX.

3) Just don't bother with OSX.


Last I heard a 3rd party group was working to try develop a Vulkan wrapper over Metal that would help developers utilising Vulkan to more directly translate things over, but at the same time that's going to come at a performance hit between two machines exactly the same but one using Windows or Linux and one using OSX using the Vulkan Wrapper to tie in with Metal, not to mention compatibility/stability problems and end results differing on OSX.


So before waving around hardware performance capabilities and insisting one machine is just as capable as another, remember how Apple work as a business and that your Apple products run off Apple Software.

[vtal]

That was quite informative! Before writing my post before, I tried googling for building games for Mac vs Windows, and tried finding if there's a known consensus of what you stated earlier. I wasn't fruitful.



The details in your last post is informative. Thanks for that and I have more keyterms I can use to read up on what you've stated. :)

[Katspajamas]

A 33% coupon just came out for this? My Finder icon just frowned....

[Dorok]

In case you didn't noticed the port on Mac is coming, made/finished by an external studio:
www.macrumors.com/2018/10/31/divinity-original-sin-2-definitive-edition-coming-to-mac-next-year/

[volx757]

ITT: pc power users who think they know anything about operating systems and regurgitate decades-old nonsense

[Earthplayer]

I wonder why they even bother with a mac port. Steam has hardware and operating system lists with percentages which they update every year from all their users (since 2016 you automatically opt in to send the "small" amount of system information automatically when installing/updating steam - only additional information upload is optional now).
It shows that 96.44% of steam users run Windows, and more specifically 61.24% Windows 10 64 bit and 29.61% Windows 7 64 bit.
Mac and Linux share the other 3,5%. And from the 2% max users more than half currently run an outdated version of MacOS which will further slim the target group. There is just not enough of an audience to warrent the extra work going into a port. It will cash in the spent money at best. They really need to start to look at the numbers instead of listening to the few loud people out there.
GoG has such stats, too. But they they don't force their users to send their hardware data and operating system information and instead do an opt in method. Hence their data is unreliable. But the data they do have is 4% linux users and only 0,3% mac users!
Reminds me of those people who still use Windows XP shouting to make game compatible. Some developers even fall for it and make the port and lose money in the process because just 0,12% of steam users use Windows XP.
I guess if the engine is easily portable it should be fine though. Most engines are not though.

And for those few people who get their macbooks from work because the company has a deal with Apple - you can just load Windows on it. Make it a dual boot if you really need MacOS or do it like an IT professor at my old university and have the white apple on the back glow while only windows is installed and the startup sound plays to get a laugh out of his students. Even if you own a Mac there is no reason for a Mac port. Just use boot camp if you don't know much about computers. That's the easiest method to get Windows on your machine. :)

[Dorok]

Originally posted by Earthplayer:

blah blah

Windows 10 is a crap it's that simple, Im' amazed what people can endure without those insane stupid forced updates. And there's so much crap everywhere.

It's like a slavery test that is trying Microsoft to see the limits of users.

[Tikigod]

Originally posted by Dorok:

Originally posted by Earthplayer:

blah blah

Windows 10 is a crap it's that simple, Im' amazed what people can endure without those insane stupid forced updates. And there's so much crap everywhere.

It's like a slavery test that is trying Microsoft to see the limits of users.

If you know what you're doing, it's not all that forced.

But based on your post being actually informed seems to be low on your list.

[Dorok]

Originally posted by Tikigod:

Originally posted by Dorok:

Windows 10 is a crap it's that simple, Im' amazed what people can endure without those insane stupid forced updates. And there's so much crap everywhere.

It's like a slavery test that is trying Microsoft to see the limits of users.

If you know what you're doing, it's not all that forced.

But based on your post being actually informed seems to be low on your list.

Lol you are a sheep and loose your time to learn boredom tricks to avoid the boredom of your OS.

I don't have patience nor time to lost in such stupidities, so I use Mac and it works and it doesn't bore me with such crap and absurd menu and other insanities of windows 10.

[AdahnGorion]

Originally posted by Dorok:

Originally posted by Tikigod:

If you know what you're doing, it's not all that forced.

But based on your post being actually informed seems to be low on your list.

Lol you are a sheep and loose your time to learn boredom tricks to avoid the boredom of your OS.

I don't have patience nor time to lost in such stupidities, so I use Mac and it works and it doesn't bore me with such crap and absurd menu and other insanities of windows 10.

I think it is pretty funny for someone using such a restrictive OS as Mac OS to flame other people for having a restrictive anti consumer OS... Mac OS is and never will be for gaming, that is a fact. It is great at stuff that Linux and Win is not, but gaming is not it! For gaming you go Win. If you wanted to create a server then I would recommend you to go with Linux. If you wanted to do some 3d art or rendering I might suggest Mac..

If you wanted to pick something for security I would rate them Linux, Win and Mac.. Why ? well because Mac is prone to being hacked, this is due to the fact its become a symbol brand and high income users use them.. Hacking/Virus follows the money and this is why 20 years back it was mainly Win.. Another misconseption from Apple users is that they are safe

But again.. Why the bloody hell would you not just do as me or others.. Use 2 or 3 OS and change between them depending on what you are doing.. If you want exercise then you do not take the car, then you take the bike....

Most people use win7 not win10 albeit if you know just a bit about computers, then its easy to use win10 without having to update/have addons.. Same can't be said about Apple products, if someone datamine you it is them.



----

http://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide

Not many use Mac OS and the majority that does do not actually use it for gaming (same could be said for linux, but its such a small margin) So trying to cater or waste extra development time/cost to make it work for anything else than Win is not a good idea in most cases.
It is however duable in games where you do not patch alot and its stabil and was a success, this is why this games like this becomes candidates..

[Dorok]

Learn read, he had to learn trick to make the OS stops bore him, and you answer that. 4 posts, 4 craps, your are champions guys.