Is it just my impression...

[Luli]

... or hardcore ranger mode is much more difficult in this original version than in Metro 2033 redux? If you make a single mistake, even the slightest, you're instantly dead. And I'm not a novice, I can consider myself a veteran of Metro games. I completed both 2033 redux and last light redux in hardcore ranger mode, but I've never seen anything like this. The worst is when you die in a section where you must listen to dialogues to unlock moral points. After every single instant death, you have to listen to them again and again and again if you want the moral points. Then make another human mistake, get brutally punished, die again and repeat everything. This is pure frustration! But I cannot stop loving this game!

[Jig McGalliger]

The old AI was not realistic at all. Everyone will know where you are at all times once you've broken stealth and been noticed. Some people like it that way, some people are also masochists.

[Luli]

Yeah, that's the biggest difference with the redux version, now that I think about it. New AI is definitely better, no doubt.

[Samz]

Originally posted by Jig McGalliger:

The old AI was not realistic at all. Everyone will know where you are at all times once you've broken stealth and been noticed. Some people like it that way, some people are also masochists.

The new AI are blind as hell, they just made the AI dumber rather than actually fixing any of the issues.
Stealth is trivial and just about punching everyone in the back of the head in Last Light/Redux.

I'd rather have 2033's stealth system since it's actually challenging.

[Luli]

Yeah, it is absolutely true that the new AI is way too blind in the dark. I think the best would be a compromise: AIs that see you if you are too close, even in the dark, but also need at least a couple of seconds to locate you when they arrive on the place. Importantly, they must give you the chance to "disappear" again by hiding and/or changing position, otherwise it becomes a trial and error.

[Luli]

For example, I'm currently at the beginning of the frontline level. If you make even the slightest sound, every single red soldier in the map automatically knows where you are, even if you hide in the dark and don't shoot. And if... no, not if... WHEN you die, you have to listen to the speech of the sergeant all over again. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. And it doesn't last a few seconds, no. It lasts MINUTES! You have to wait for minutes and minutes at every single death! You have to wait and do nothing! This is a real kick in the balls. That checkpoint was placed by a sadist.

[MAGs☢uilleᵗʷᶦᵗᶜʰ]

Originally posted by Jig McGalliger:

The old AI was not realistic at all. Everyone will know where you are at all times once you've broken stealth and been noticed. Some people like it that way, some people are also masochists.

You're exaggerating. The Ranger version isn't as punitive over the Original version, it's clearly playable (killing all people, it's not impossible).

Compared to the Redux version where the I.A. is worthy of Ubisoft, the A.I. is much more realistic in the original than in the all public Redux version which loses interest. "Survival is supposed to be tough. You have to be smart and save your resources." This is clearly why it was a mistake to remove the original from Steam for this difficulity disappointment".

Metro Exodus inherited the worst of them all because humans are abnormally outclassing you in weapon accuracy and without even playing Ranger to see it. This is clearly the one that is more frustrating in terms of difficulty

[Jig McGalliger]

Let me get this straight, I mostly use the hardest difficulties in all Metro games and I have hundreds of hours doing so. None of them are impossible, even some of much more difficult achievements in the original LL and in Exodus DLC, it is the way it is meant to be played (fk nvidia). I just understand the difficulties and differences and play accordingly.

Using Survival Ranger Hardcore in Redux, the AI is much more realistic than the original 2033 and LL AI (which are stark contrasts where Redux helps close the gap). Clearly this early 2033 is less realistic in the fact that no matter where you escape to and come back from in a station, they know where you are if there were ever in an alarmed state (different than an investigative/alert state). This is not an exaggeration, you literally cannot shake them after an alarmed state like you can in Redux/Exodus (though they don't always pursue you down a toxic gas tunnel). It doesn't exactly make it better, but I know some people may state it is. They're different.

Not that it matters, you either kill or not and move on to the objective regardless.

[Jig McGalliger]

I still like that I *just* found out you can "silently" break the lower nazi generator in chapter 4 with your knife. I've punched the thing once or twice before and it never broke. I've naded it and it obvi breaks with an alarm. But if you hit it like 5 times with the knife it goes and doesn't inherently spook all the nazis.

They'll know it is out, but not know where from and investigate. This is not common with the old AI and is often scripted (happens in a few other areas); however, when they send one guy down and if he dies silently, the rest give up their alerted status and never reach an alarmed status when you're fcked.

I love how games like Metro 2033 and KoTOR can still surprise me when I've spent hundreds of hours picking through them.

[racistIncel]

get good

[MAGs☢uilleᵗʷᶦᵗᶜʰ]

How a player with 100 hours on Original who is playing the most difficult of modes can say that the game is still difficult ? It's nonsense. For me, it does not make sense.

After having just completed it twice, by looking for the caches a little and knowing the weapons, you clean the game without risking to be in lack of money, of filter. So with 100 hours, you have safety in loot but
not always in I.A. and that, it's why original is better than redux.
Even the library without being discreet, you carry the game in Ranger but you need ammo (i kill all, always).

It is precisely the interest of playing, knowing the loot, the places and knowing how to make money. After that, the I.A. compensate for the difficulty you lost by knowing the game perfectly and that, it's really nice.

In Redux, weapon accessories, A.I., filters are not a problem from your first game on the game, which is not normal. In addition to the A.I. that makes things easier.

If it's not your first time and you know the weapon caches, etc., the A.I. will not go up a little the difficulty because I.A. is stupide and suddenly, you get bored. Which is not the case in the original, you will always have that feeling of death.

I did it again in Hardcore Easy 2 months ago and my gameplay is simple, fck the stealth, I kill everything (all humans and gorillas). If I do the same on the Redux, I'm bored. There are too many elements that add ease to the redux game and make it bland to play and without interest to start again because the survive is too low.

You will always be better immersed in the original game with its difficulty than the Redux version because some elements have not been incorporated in original to simplify it.

Now, it's my opinion and I much prefer the first version for these points

[LeastSaneLifeEnjoyer]

I feel like the original HR difficulty is quite unbalanced with way of getting late game weapons as early as 2mission and enemies having third eye to notice you. The game is easy to stealth through if you do not kill anybody from groups and shooting theatres that gave me headache in redux versions are somehow even easier here. It is also possible that I got better through all the metro games I played before. Plus having at least some UI in HR is also nice

[Samz]

Originally posted by Jig McGalliger:

Let me get this straight, I mostly use the hardest difficulties in all Metro games and I have hundreds of hours doing so. None of them are impossible, even some of much more difficult achievements in the original LL and in Exodus DLC, it is the way it is meant to be played (fk nvidia). I just understand the difficulties and differences and play accordingly.

Using Survival Ranger Hardcore in Redux, the AI is much more realistic than the original 2033 and LL AI (which are stark contrasts where Redux helps close the gap). Clearly this early 2033 is less realistic in the fact that no matter where you escape to and come back from in a station, they know where you are if there were ever in an alarmed state (different than an investigative/alert state). This is not an exaggeration, you literally cannot shake them after an alarmed state like you can in Redux/Exodus (though they don't always pursue you down a toxic gas tunnel). It doesn't exactly make it better, but I know some people may state it is. They're different.

Not that it matters, you either kill or not and move on to the objective regardless.

While I can't remember how 2033 Redux handles it, Last Light just doesn't have Alarm states carry through any doors, so this means everyone acts like you just stealthed through an area, despite bullets and explosions rocking the metro 5 seconds ago.

The AI is blind and honestly that makes the stealth less fun, yes it's frustrating how enemies are suddenly super-alert with insane vision when you get spotted in the original but at least they didn't have the reaction times of an incredibly slow person.

The AI being able to lose you doesn't matter when they're so dumb/blind it's way too easy to not be spotted as long as you're patient.

In Redux 2033/Last Light enemies are I'm pretty sure just as, if not more blind then when you get the dedicated stealth suit in 2033, which you had to buy. (Buyable armor is another mechanic I'm annoyed they removed.)

In 2033, you're sneaking around because you're probably dead if you get caught, and avoiding taking out dudes because getting close enough to use the knife is actually risky, so you mostly use limited silent weapons/throwing knives.

In Redux/Last Light, you're sneaking around entirely because you want to get the good ending (Since Artyom is a call of duty character now and enemies got nerfed.), enemies are blind to the point where you can at times walk basically right up to them to knock them out in their vision and the knock out punch is hillariously OP and makes avoiding killing dudes super-easy.

[MAGs☢uilleᵗʷᶦᵗᶜʰ]

That's the great thing about the outfits from the original game, is that it's a CHOICE you can make, not redux.

Personally, over 80 hours of play, I never used the stealth outfit and only once the heavy armor. It's useful but it's a choice. It can help some players so, it is beneficial but it has no repercussion on the overall game and our gameplay

The stealth outfit can probably be very useful to cross the lines of the two enemy camps (i prefer kill everything or take the secret passage) and the heavy outfit to survive the gorillas (can help but not obligatory, even if you kill them all)

[Samz]

Originally posted by MAGsouille:

That's the great thing about the outfits from the original game, is that it's a CHOICE you can make, not redux.

Personally, over 80 hours of play, I never used the stealth outfit and only once the heavy armor. It's useful but it's a choice. It can help some players so, it is beneficial but it has no repercussion on the overall game and our gameplay

The stealth outfit can probably be very useful to cross the lines of the two enemy camps (i prefer kill everything or take the secret passage) and the heavy outfit to survive the gorillas (can help but not obligatory, even if you kill them all)

Even then I think in Redux it's only a visual change.
At least for the Stealth outfit.
And even then, instead of re-creating the 2033 Outfits, they just re-used the first person hands from Last Light.

[MAGs☢uilleᵗʷᶦᵗᶜʰ]

Originally posted by SamzySmashy:

Even then I think in Redux it's only a visual change.
At least for the Stealth outfit.
And even then, instead of re-creating the 2033 Outfits, they just re-used the first person hands from Last Light.

they just didn't add them in 2033 Redux version. Instead, they reduced the i.a and created easier passages to play stealth