The Hellsing was a mistake.

[Stret]

Being low on golden rounds to buy ammo? Low ammo in a hostile area? Or maybe Hellsing.

Somewhat easy to obtain in mid game weapon that is reliable for the whole game? Hellsing.

Any stealth section? Hellsing.

Enemy has armor? Or maybe simply high HP? Highly pressurized \ overpressurized Hellsing.

Medium \ long range? Hellsing.



Who the hell thought a 100% silent weapon, capable of OHKing a Librarian in high difficulties, that technically has infinite ammo was ok?

[Sovereign]

It has bullet drop at long range, needs to be pumped after every few shots, has a slowish reload and ROF, small ammo capacity, is very impractical when fighting packs of mutants at close range (which happens often), ammo is expensive etc. It's a powerful weapon for sure, but not very versatile. I also fail to see how a weapon being powerful and useful makes it a mistake, surely you want your weapons to be useful.

[Stret]

Originally posted by Sovereign:

It has bullet drop at long range, needs to be pumped after every few shots, has a slowish reload and ROF, small ammo capacity, is very impractical when fighting packs of mutants at close range (which happens often), ammo is expensive etc. It's a powerful weapon for sure, but not very versatile. I also fail to see how a weapon being powerful and useful makes it a mistake, surely you want your weapons to be useful.

This post is mostly a joke. But anyways :

> Hellsin's ammo is expensive, but its basically infinite. 5 arrows are kinda enough for you to be set for the game if you use it correctly. And it appears for free not too long into the game

Slow reload and ROF arent a problem with the Hellsin, considering its mostly made to be used in manageable situations, which are common in the game. And you onl definitely need to have it overpressurized against Librarians. Well, you can stare at them.

The only area on which helsin isn't good is at the packs of nosalises, which yeah are somewhat common, except on Cursed on which its pretty manageable too. But as you will have tons of ammo thanks to your forever lasting 10~ arrows, you will definitely have enough rifle ammo for those.

Its bullet drop isn't really an issue as you can just get used to it. And there arent many long range sequences in this game. And when at the maximum - non over pressurized level of it, iirc its OHKing at anywhere in the body anyways.

[Agenta]

The Helsing is only really completely valid at close-to-mid range.

This is mostly due to the arrow-drop/drift. It can hit QUITE far from where you aimed it at long ranges. It's enough so that one specific light in Dry Station, and one specific light in Black Station, as well as several lights in Frontline (The 3 main stealth sections where the Helsing is available) cannot be reliably shot out with the Helsing. This can severely limit you at times.

Also, it takes up the same spot as the Abzats, which is by far the best weapon in the game for the Library and D6. (D6 is arguable, as a Khalash 2012 with MGRs can perform just as well there).

You can also just as easily use a Silenced Revolver (Preferable with Stock and Optics) for long range sniping, and throwing knives for close-range stealth. Or skip the silenced Revolver and pick up a VSV with Scope at Armory station. The VSV loses barely any damage (In comparison to other weapons, which lose quite a bit of damage when you silence them), is near perfect accuracy when you aim it (With a scope, without a scope it has some sight-sway), and is MUCH better when dealing with mutants (It's comparable to a regular Khalash, though you need to reload more often). This leaves your utility slot open for another weapon (Typically a Volt Driver, or Abzats).

[Sovereign]

Originally posted by Agenta1999:

The Helsing is only really completely valid at close-to-mid range.

This is mostly due to the arrow-drop/drift. It can hit QUITE far from where you aimed it at long ranges. It's enough so that one specific light in Dry Station, and one specific light in Black Station, as well as several lights in Frontline (The 3 main stealth sections where the Helsing is available) cannot be reliably shot out with the Helsing. This can severely limit you at times.

I agree with this. I Am currently replaying the Reduxes back to back in preparation for Exodus, playing stealthy with the hellsing and there were penty of times when the drop at long range made things very tricky with lights and enemies to the point where I kinda wished I had a revolver or VSV instead at a few points.

[Stret]

Originally posted by Sovereign:

Originally posted by Agenta1999:

The Helsing is only really completely valid at close-to-mid range.

This is mostly due to the arrow-drop/drift. It can hit QUITE far from where you aimed it at long ranges. It's enough so that one specific light in Dry Station, and one specific light in Black Station, as well as several lights in Frontline (The 3 main stealth sections where the Helsing is available) cannot be reliably shot out with the Helsing. This can severely limit you at times.

I agree with this. I Am currently replaying the Reduxes back to back in preparation for Exodus, playing stealthy with the hellsing and there were penty of times when the drop at long range made things very tricky with lights and enemies to the point where I kinda wished I had a revolver or VSV instead at a few points.

Tbh, i never really had a problem with it

[Sovereign]

Originally posted by Stret1311:

Originally posted by Sovereign:

I agree with this. I Am currently replaying the Reduxes back to back in preparation for Exodus, playing stealthy with the hellsing and there were penty of times when the drop at long range made things very tricky with lights and enemies to the point where I kinda wished I had a revolver or VSV instead at a few points.

Tbh, i never really had a problem with it

Well good for you. Another problem I was having was that the slow ROF combined with the projectiles slow speed (compared to a bullet) makes it harder to hit fast moving targets especially at range.

[Agenta]

Originally posted by Sovereign:

Originally posted by Agenta1999:

The Helsing is only really completely valid at close-to-mid range.

This is mostly due to the arrow-drop/drift. It can hit QUITE far from where you aimed it at long ranges. It's enough so that one specific light in Dry Station, and one specific light in Black Station, as well as several lights in Frontline (The 3 main stealth sections where the Helsing is available) cannot be reliably shot out with the Helsing. This can severely limit you at times.

I agree with this. I Am currently replaying the Reduxes back to back in preparation for Exodus, playing stealthy with the hellsing and there were penty of times when the drop at long range made things very tricky with lights and enemies to the point where I kinda wished I had a revolver or VSV instead at a few points.

I actually find the Helsing even LESS valuable in Redux due to the weapon modifications and weapon limits.

A silenced Khalash or Bastard (Bastard of course needs all the other upgrades) fills it's job well enough. Espesially since you need a way to shoot out lights. And since Shotguns are so incredibly powerful you WANT to bring a Shotgun (Preferably a Abzats or Saiga), you can't rely on your second weapon slot to deal with lights. Thus you use a Shotgun, for mutants, and a silenced automatic weapon for both stealth and distance combat.

So Redux's weapon limit heavily encourages you to just stick to a silenced automatic gun and a shotgun, rather then possibly exploring the more interesting weapons added like the Helsing, Tikhar, Volt Driver, or the Snipers.

And that isn't even mentioning the introduction of the stealth-takedown in Redux, throwing knives being much easier to use, and the stealth-AI for humans being much easier.

Please note: I am mostly talking about Ranger difficulty when we discuss Redux. This is MUCH less of a problem on non-ranger.

[Sovereign]

Originally posted by Agenta1999:

Originally posted by Sovereign:

I agree with this. I Am currently replaying the Reduxes back to back in preparation for Exodus, playing stealthy with the hellsing and there were penty of times when the drop at long range made things very tricky with lights and enemies to the point where I kinda wished I had a revolver or VSV instead at a few points.

I actually find the Helsing even LESS valuable in Redux due to the weapon modifications and weapon limits.

A silenced Khalash or Bastard (Bastard of course needs all the other upgrades) fills it's job well enough. Espesially since you need a way to shoot out lights. And since Shotguns are so incredibly powerful you WANT to bring a Shotgun (Preferably a Abzats or Saiga), you can't rely on your second weapon slot to deal with lights. Thus you use a Shotgun, for mutants, and a silenced automatic weapon for both stealth and distance combat.

So Redux's weapon limit heavily encourages you to just stick to a silenced automatic gun and a shotgun, rather then possibly exploring the more interesting weapons added like the Helsing, Tikhar, Volt Driver, or the Snipers.

And that isn't even mentioning the introduction of the stealth-takedown in Redux, throwing knives being much easier to use, and the stealth-AI for humans being much easier.

Please note: I am mostly talking about Ranger difficulty when we discuss Redux. This is MUCH less of a problem on non-ranger.

I get what your saying but I feel it's the other way around, being able to add a laser and scope to the Hellsing makes it more useful while I feel the OG weapon limit was even more, well, "limiting" as you couldn't but any weapon you want in to any slot. In Redux and LL I can have whatever weapon combo I want which gives me more options even on Ranger mode, I've played many playthrough with many different weapon combos, as long as you don't have two guns with the same ammo type your fine.

I might just be a imagining it but one thing I think the Hellsing has over a silenced gun is that it's a bit quieter. You can be closer to the enemy without them hearing it fire, this is important when playing with survival mode as the enemies become very jumpy and reactive to sound.

[Stret]

Originally posted by Agenta1999:

Originally posted by Sovereign:

I agree with this. I Am currently replaying the Reduxes back to back in preparation for Exodus, playing stealthy with the hellsing and there were penty of times when the drop at long range made things very tricky with lights and enemies to the point where I kinda wished I had a revolver or VSV instead at a few points.

I actually find the Helsing even LESS valuable in Redux due to the weapon modifications and weapon limits.

A silenced Khalash or Bastard (Bastard of course needs all the other upgrades) fills it's job well enough. Espesially since you need a way to shoot out lights. And since Shotguns are so incredibly powerful you WANT to bring a Shotgun (Preferably a Abzats or Saiga), you can't rely on your second weapon slot to deal with lights. Thus you use a Shotgun, for mutants, and a silenced automatic weapon for both stealth and distance combat.

So Redux's weapon limit heavily encourages you to just stick to a silenced automatic gun and a shotgun, rather then possibly exploring the more interesting weapons added like the Helsing, Tikhar, Volt Driver, or the Snipers.

And that isn't even mentioning the introduction of the stealth-takedown in Redux, throwing knives being much easier to use, and the stealth-AI for humans being much easier.

Please note: I am mostly talking about Ranger difficulty when we discuss Redux. This is MUCH less of a problem on non-ranger.

True that. I also felt that the hellsing was less important in LL. ( I played it on ranger normal btw ). There are just few good spots to use it, and there is also way more ammo available for it. Not to mention that, differently than in LL, you have a pretty easy access to a free Hellsing in 2033. On LL it not only appears at very late game, but its also way too expensive to get it earlier.

[Sovereign]

Originally posted by Stret1311:

Originally posted by Agenta1999:

I actually find the Helsing even LESS valuable in Redux due to the weapon modifications and weapon limits.

A silenced Khalash or Bastard (Bastard of course needs all the other upgrades) fills it's job well enough. Espesially since you need a way to shoot out lights. And since Shotguns are so incredibly powerful you WANT to bring a Shotgun (Preferably a Abzats or Saiga), you can't rely on your second weapon slot to deal with lights. Thus you use a Shotgun, for mutants, and a silenced automatic weapon for both stealth and distance combat.

So Redux's weapon limit heavily encourages you to just stick to a silenced automatic gun and a shotgun, rather then possibly exploring the more interesting weapons added like the Helsing, Tikhar, Volt Driver, or the Snipers.

And that isn't even mentioning the introduction of the stealth-takedown in Redux, throwing knives being much easier to use, and the stealth-AI for humans being much easier.

Please note: I am mostly talking about Ranger difficulty when we discuss Redux. This is MUCH less of a problem on non-ranger.

True that. I also felt that the hellsing was less important in LL. ( I played it on ranger normal btw ). There are just few good spots to use it, and there is also way more ammo available for it. Not to mention that, differently than in LL, you have a pretty easy access to a free Hellsing in 2033. On LL it not only appears at very late game, but its also way too expensive to get it earlier.

It does make more sense for such a powerful weapon to be relagated to the later stages of the game. Though it's not that late in the game as you first find it on Contagion which is about 1/3 from the end.

[Stret]

Originally posted by Sovereign:

Originally posted by Stret1311:

True that. I also felt that the hellsing was less important in LL. ( I played it on ranger normal btw ). There are just few good spots to use it, and there is also way more ammo available for it. Not to mention that, differently than in LL, you have a pretty easy access to a free Hellsing in 2033. On LL it not only appears at very late game, but its also way too expensive to get it earlier.

It does make more sense for such a powerful weapon to be relagated to the later stages of the game. Though it's not that late in the game as you first find it on Contagion which is about 1/3 from the end.

Oh... rip. I only found it at the city with the ghosts

[Sovereign]

Originally posted by Stret1311:

Originally posted by Sovereign:

It does make more sense for such a powerful weapon to be relagated to the later stages of the game. Though it's not that late in the game as you first find it on Contagion which is about 1/3 from the end.

Oh... rip. I only found it at the city with the ghosts

Yeah you can get it earlier then that, the first helsing is on a table during Contagion and then you can also buy it from Hanza during the next level Quarantine, though you can indeed find a couple more as you cross the surface with the Dark One.

[Terminator01]

The Volt Driver is way better than the Helsing, even throwing knifes are better for the stealth parts than that gimmick weapon.

Who the hell thought a 100% silent weapon, capable of OHKing a Librarian in high difficulties, that technically has infinite ammo was ok?

Since the game is build around resource management (at least on the Ranger modes), having such economic guns is the answer to this.

[Stret]

Originally posted by Terminator01:

The Volt Driver is way better than the Helsing, even throwing knifes are better for the stealth parts than that gimmick weapon.

Who the hell thought a 100% silent weapon, capable of OHKing a Librarian in high difficulties, that technically has infinite ammo was ok?

Since the game is build around resource management (at least on the Ranger modes), having such economic guns is the answer to this.

Even on ranger modes you are literally drowning on ammo for most of the playthrough, so eh

[Terminator01]

Originally posted by Stret1311:

Originally posted by Terminator01:

The Volt Driver is way better than the Helsing, even throwing knifes are better for the stealth parts than that gimmick weapon.



Since the game is build around resource management (at least on the Ranger modes), having such economic guns is the answer to this.

Even on ranger modes you are literally drowning an ammo for most the playthrough, so eh

I know, I played the game multiple times on Ranger Hardcore and started a new run couple days ago. I know every corner where you can get ammo.
And that´s the actual problem of the game and not the Helsing.