Hungry for lore (brief talk about story arcs missing links)

[V-Screen]

Watched them,got them,played them,loved them.
I really like the Momodora series. I played them on reverse order,4th installment to 1st,dunno why i did it like that,but it's fine. I sincerely hope rdein lets his mind go on fantasy trips and keeps enveloping stories based on this universe.



I gotta say thou,having enjoyed the characters and the narrative arcs they were involved in, my brain is twitching a little about the overall lore.



I mean,it's no surprise how everyone that played Reverie Under the Moonlight considers themselves being captured by the tones of the game (darker than in the previous ones),along with the misteries put in front of us. I was one of them. Well,to be honest,i think i'm the one who simply doesn't get some points.

"Why does the person that presumebly accompanied us at the beginning of the game have his face all covered in bandages? Is it just aesthetics,or is he purposefully hiding his identity?"
"With all people dying and morphing into evil creatures because of the mending of the two worlds,how come Askorn is the only sentient one? Is it because he died long before the curse happened?"
"What's the deal with Cotillard,the cat lady? She sure sounds like she knows a lot about the whole situation (red eyes=knowledge=power)."
"Are you meaning to tell me that Askorn and Paramol are the only two male characters we encounter in the entire universe?"




Yup. And with this episode being a 400 years prequel, other questions started to rise about the intersection with the other episodes,as well as the franchise in and of itself.


Should i add a SPOILER note in regards to the previous games? I mean,it's your choice to read onward....






-In Momodora 3,in the "Distortion in time" level,you meet Kaho who asks for help from you in order to defeat Haegok. Now, she claims to be from the village of KoHo,and that her companions died and now she's facing danger alone.

"She claims to be from KoHo (which is supposedly a common place in the Momodora lore),but then in her last mission (Momo 4) everyone knows her as a priestess from Lun?"
And i know it's minor details,but now i wanna know more about the world layout. I mean,the only real bit of variety in terms of landscape comes from Momo 3,with its "world levels" scheme. The first two episodes take place in a cave (and just saying,the 5 seconds intros of the two are basically identical XD ),while RUtM is centered on Karst kingdom (which i'm speculating there's a background of in Momo 3 aswell,in the "Old Madryn" level). Not only that,but it'd be interesting to know about the group Kaho was in.
And let's be honest,SPOILER honest in fact! Momodora 3...ending credits... Momo ... Kaho ...Reinol ...huh!? HUH!? ;)




-The name of the game itself,Momodora, highlights who are supposed to be the two protagonists around which narrative arcs are developed. Isadora is the protagonist of the first episode,while Momo takes lead on the second. Speaking of the two,their relationship is kinda tough to determine. I bet they're "frienemies". Why do I say that? Well ,having played the games on reverse i finished Momo 2 after Momo 3. The final enemy of Momo 2? The Underworld Queen....who looked kinda familiar....and the ending credits clearly showed me why. Queen Isadora?? Dora is the final boss?? WOT?? B-but she succesfully escaped the cave in Momo 1....i guess that,since she is depicted as a defective rebel priestess (with her mother being killed because of the cult and all),maybe she didn't have enough inner defense to contrast evil and got plagued by it? I dunno... does that mean i have to consider Momo 3 as a prequel to Momo 1 and 2? argh,my head...... <-----(shhh,it's all right,don't listen to me,I'm a big dummy XD )



-Going back to RUtM,we fight the queen as the final boss.
Now,we don't know anything about the queen. We're not even given her name! So allow me some more speculation.
If you get the good ending, you'll see Kaho praying in an attempt to incubate all roots of evil inside of her own body,succeeding at the cost of her own life. Now,i want you to look closely at the ending sequence. Kaho's body disappears,while the queen's body gets rid of the curse and goes back normal,and falls on its weight.
Look at that body.
A lil more.
A lil more.
Good.
Now tell me that body doesn't remind you of Rell,the death goddess!! XD


Ok,i'm just jerking around now. But i wanna make my point clear.






I can see that Momodora started as a gameplay based series. The first episode is a brilliant example. The plot served as a push to step in and enjoy the gameplay,and the gameplay carried on the whole experience. With time,rdein added personality to his games. In Momo 2,the bell motif is introduced which will be a stable for the rest of the series. Secondary characters also made an appearance,and enemies like bakmen became a recurrent element. Momodora 1 had a vast arsenal of weapons,whereas the Maple leaf became a stable weapon from episode 2 onward.

And in every single game,he's experimented new ways to keep the formula fresh and innovative while enjoyable and familiar. Momo 1 was just "Cave Story chibi",gameplay-wise. In Momo 2 he introduced a metroid-style map layout,with numerous branches,to add on and vary the experience to a certain extent. In Momo 3 he applied the warp mechanic to the save points,but i guess that since this was an experiment,he might have kept it on a smaller scale,with a linear map layout similar to Momo 1. And with RUtM,he applied that same warp mechanic because it worked great on a big scale map.

And let's not talk about the rest of the overall features and improvements!






So yeah,it's obvious. Gameplay is centric,as it should be. But after the success of this 4th installment,i feel like a lot of people are intrigued by the story. And even known all the Momodora games can be considered as standalone stories, i cannot help but to daydream about a day where all the pieces will be connected,at least when it comes to the characters and the timeline. Man,this franchise sure would fit an animation series.





TL;DR for those who didn't wanna daydream too much:

It'd be great if the Momodora games lore (characters depiction and timeline) was planned out and officialised.



And that's all from me. Good game(s). Hope to see more in the future.

[rdein]

It's great to see messages like yours, it means a lot to me that someone else might be interested in the underlaying lore and stuff like that.

I'll answer your first questions (sort of) because it's amusing to me.

"Why does the person that presumebly accompanied us at the beginning of the game have his face all covered in bandages? Is it just aesthetics,or is he purposefully hiding his identity?"

That person is actually a Bakman, which is usually a demon that acts on instict. The bandages are a way to "tame" that instinct.

"With all people dying and morphing into evil creatures because of the mending of the two worlds,how come Askorn is the only sentient one? Is it because he died long before the curse happened?"

Askorn died naturally, while the people in Karst City are stuck in a limbo-like state, transitioning towards death. These people are morphing into different shapes, like the small chick enemies you find in the Pinacotheca area.

"What's the deal with Cotillard,the cat lady? She sure sounds like she knows a lot about the whole situation (red eyes=knowledge=power)."

I'm not going to say too much about her, but she is "different". Something like Gandalf from LOTR, haha.

"Are you meaning to tell me that Askorn and Paramol are the only two male characters we encounter in the entire universe?"

It's just easier for me to come up with female characters for some reason.

"She claims to be from KoHo (which is supposedly a common place in the Momodora lore),but then in her last mission (Momo 4) everyone her as a priestess from Lun?"

This is my favorite question! Chronologically, the village was first called Lun. But after Kaho's story, it was renamed Koho to honor her. You can consider Kaho's mention of Koho in Momo 3 to be retconned :P

Anyway - I've toyed with the idea of setting up a "lore" wiki for Momodora games before, but that's a project that always drifts away from my focus. It'd be cool, but I'm not sure if there'd be enough interest for that kind of thing.

[V-Screen]

Thank you so much for your reply.
It sounds so cliché,but having a direct feedback is kind of stimulating when it comes to positive energy.


i wish i was able to write some sense into my sentences,but timezone dictates that i go to bed right now at the risk of collapsing on my desk. But i really appreciate you answersing those little dilemmas of mine.


This also inspires me to work some more on my skills. I envy the ability of mediums like games to narrate stories in an almost effortless way. Writing as a hobby,i recon reading text is a more needing activity for part of the receivers. But i still enjoy doing that. And writing,drawing,playing can all be nice ways for a fanbase to interact. If people like and are interested to the product,they'll make themselves heard enough,on that front.

So yeah, thank you again so much! :)

[Kindvirus]

Originally posted by V-Screen:

"She claims to be from KoHo (which is supposedly a common place in the Momodora lore),but then in her last mission (Momo 4) everyone knows her as a priestess from Lun?"
And i know it's minor details,but now i wanna know more about the world layout. I mean,the only real bit of variety in terms of landscape comes from Momo 3,with its "world levels" scheme. The first two episodes take place in a cave (and just saying,the 5 seconds intros of the two are basically identical XD ),while RUtM is centered on Karst kingdom (which i'm speculating there's a background of in Momo 3 aswell,in the "Old Madryn" level). Not only that,but it'd be interesting to know about the group Kaho was in.
And let's be honest,SPOILER honest in fact! Momodora 3...ending credits... Momo ... Kaho ...Reinol ...huh!? HUH!? ;)

I think the group Kaho was in consisted of her and those statues found that you pray to in Momodora 2. (Milori, Luna, Chiemi)

Originally posted by V-Screen:

-The name of the game itself,Momodora, highlights who are supposed to be the two protagonists around which narrative arcs are developed. Isadora is the protagonist of the first episode,while Momo takes lead on the second. Speaking of the two,their relationship is kinda tough to determine. I bet they're "frienemies". Why do I say that? Well ,having played the games on reverse i finished Momo 2 after Momo 3. The final enemy of Momo 2? The Underworld Queen....who looked kinda familiar....and the ending credits clearly showed me why. Queen Isadora?? Dora is the final boss?? WOT?? B-but she succesfully escaped the cave in Momo 1....i guess that,since she is depicted as a defective rebel priestess (with her mother being killed because of the cult and all),maybe she didn't have enough inner defense to contrast evil and got plagued by it? I dunno...does that mean i have to consider Momo 3 as a prequel to Momo 1 and 2? argh,my head......

Why consider Momo 3 a prequel to Momo 1 and 2?

[V-Screen]

Originally posted by Kindvirus OPST:

I think the group Kaho was in consisted of her and those statues found that you pray to in Momodora 2. (Milori, Luna, Chiemi)

Mhm....now that i think about it,it makes a lot of sense. Yeah,you might be right. So much mistery thou...

Originally posted by Kindvirus OPST:

Why consider Momo 3 a prequel to Momo 1 and 2?

Lol that's a thing i need to correct in the thread! O.O
I said that because i didn't complete my first run in momo 2 XD I only played as is,and so i didn't get the true ending. And in the normal ending Dora just...dies,getting erased,so i was shocked. And my mind fooled me in thinking that could be canon. (Only true endings are canon >.< )

It is kinda weird how Dora became the underworld queen,thou. I have this picture in my mind,of her getting teleported out of the cave by her mother,so i thought she was save. Does that mean she got cursed by queen Lamia as they were fighting? Or perharps the term "curse" should be intented in a more lateral way,as in "the thought of not being able to free her mother haunted her and slowly changed her into an evil being that took hold of the underground world"?

Still,thank you for bringing some sense into my head! :D

[ArVrok]

I'm really interested in knowing who Artemisia is. I almost have this suspicion that she's gonna be the protagonist of the 5th game, (if that's to be a thing) considering how much her sister hypes her up. And I'm also interested in who her sister is. She looks kinda like Cotillard from RUtM.

[V-Screen]

That's another interesting side,since she hinted at Kaho's actions,centuries in the past. And she says "It's been centuries since I've seen one of you". Since SHE has. So she could be a witch with the power of everlasting through generations, or part of a family or population that shares long life lenght.

Also ,can we establish that witches have horns? I don't think so yet,but only because of a conjecture. I mean Lubella has them,Lumia has them,Dora has them when she becomes the underworld queen. And all those other people that show or hint at magical powers,like Alka and Polka or even Cotillard,all those people conveniently wear a hood or a hat. Speculating too much? Maybe. Because to be honest,Sarina's sprite makes it look like she's just wearing a hairband. So i got tied hands on that one,too little information.

In regards to her sister,there are only 2 things we know. One is that her grave is a place in between the world and hell. Sarina speaks of her sister kindly ,saying she was a protective figure and a hero to her people. If she was such a benevolent figure,how could she be buried in such a place? Am i to assume the grave was built there just because,perharps,THERE was the place she "acted as a hero" and saved her people? If that's so,things could get interesting. That'd hint at a plot along the lines of "a portal between the land of the living and the one of the dead has opened",which i would like seeing in a Momodora spin-off. (like RUtM is. Because it is. I call it Momo 4 for time convenience. Let's fly down,Momodora is about Momo and Dora. Let's just stick with that,let's establish the main series and tighten the protagonists' storyarcs,before going into spinoff actions XD )

The other thing we know,giving credit to...well...the credits,is that Sarina comes from a place called Ishlith. Ishlith is a place that's either peaceful or desolated. What i mean by that is,Ishlith shrine is the first level in Momodora 3,where you start your adventure. Ishlith town,if there exists one,should be not far from it. And if you look at the landscape,everything so green and fresh not dark and groomy or dusty and ruined. Sarina doesn't say much about the people,but she lets slip out that Artemisia's heroic act is "a very old and forgotten story". Does it mean the Ishlith people are still alive,but just forgot about that heritage? Or did they underwent something that caused their extinction,and noone else knows about their history? For all we know,that story being forgotten could have also been a result of mistrust. Perharps someone publicly and falsely miscredited her actions,and people believed that and turned on Artemisia. Who knows? Again,too little information.

I'm ending my thoughts with this: at the end of the Ishlith shrine level,you fight Plum Prim (which,again....those credits....mmmhnnggg!!) in a segregated place with a statue of a horned lady. Who is that lady? Could it be Artemisia? Could it be another witch?

Too many theories...

[Kindvirus]

Originally posted by V-Screen:

I'm ending my thoughts with this: at the end of the Ishlith shrine level,you fight Plum (which,again....those credits....mmmhnnggg!!) in a segregated place with a statue of a horned lady. Who is that lady? Could it be Artemisia? Could it be another witch?

Too many theories...

Plum? You mean Prim?

But that's another question I need to ask.
Who's Prim? If I remember well, in the credits, it was shown her full name to be Prim Doralina. She shares the same family name as Isadora, yet it looks like she has the same skin color of Momodora 3's Dora, who only got that color after she was cursed in the 2nd game.

Is Prim a dead relative revived by Rell or maybe cursed similarly to Dora to guard the Isilith Shrine?

[V-Screen]

Well,I'm afraid we have little to no data here. Aside from sharing the last name,Prim (who's Plum?!? Where did it come from?!? ...geez i'm going wild with errors!) remains quite an unknown personality in the game.

I don't think it has anything to do with the curse,thou. And that's because i don't think the skin color was intended to mean something story-wise,but was rather chosen from an artistic standpoint,either the developers created the sprite in correlation to the front art of the game or viceversa. The only proof i have for this is the manual for Momodora 3 (http://www.rdein.puyovs.net/manual.html) which tells us that "The marks on her face represent a sign of those who have been cursed." So i think they left it at there. Those marks are all that's left of the curse.

Still,this is another unknown name sharing. And if the Kaho-Momo one is of a 400 years lap (they meet each other in a time distortion),the Dora-Prim is definitely in the present,so there must be some more explanation. I can't possibly imagine the whole Momodora 3 game to be a time travel experience. The way the levels are layed out may allow it,but i don't wanna believe that.

[Kindvirus]

If you look through the game files of Momodora 3, there are sprites of Prim with the same skin color of Momodora 1 Isadora and looking less aggresive. Might've been something that's been scrapped.

[rdein]

Prim is a distant relative of Dora's. Her backstory is not explained anywhere in that game, unfortunately, but she is a person who remained stuck in the body of a child. She is like, 400 years old or something.

As for Kaho, she is a distant relative of Momo. RUtM Spoilers: since Kaho dies without leaving any children, it's not exactly like Kaho is Momo's grand-grand-grandmother. It's more like a distant cousin, maybe.

This is why the surnames are the same.

The thing about Dora being cursed is another thing that's not explained correctly, so my bad on that. Just entering the place she did in Momo 1 was enough to curse her. The curse is basically death, and she becomes a spirit/demon of the underworld.
In Momo 2, this curse is reversed by the power of the Green Leaf (which hails from the same Tree as some fruits called Shellfruits, mentioned in Momo 3 to be able to bring back life).
With that, Dora is basically "reborn" in a different body configuration. So her skin changes, she gets marks on her face, etc. There's more marks in other parts of her body, but it's not shown in any artwork or sprite.

Unfortunately there's a lot of backstory for things like this which are nowhere in the games. Maybe if we get an anime someday :P

[ArVrok]

I'm so happy to have these explanations lol. Prim was really bothering me.

Originally posted by V-Screen:

I'm ending my thoughts with this: at the end of the Ishlith shrine level,you fight Plum (which,again....those credits....mmmhnnggg!!) in a segregated place with a statue of a horned lady. Who is that lady? Could it be Artemisia? Could it be another witch?

I've also tried figuring stuff out by looking at background statues. I wanna know who's portrayed in Momodora 2 in that statue that has no prayer effect. Near the top left of the map.

[V-Screen]

Thank you for clearing out those passages for us,now Dora's curse is clearer to me.

And yeah,there's a lot of nectar to be collected,we just have to give time. If and when then series moves moves onto new chapters,new hints would be scattered throughout the games.
As far as multimedia productions go,i really wish you get that luck,rdein. I mean the potential is there. Animations or novels,it'd be exiting.

[Mr. Poolman]

rdein, if you create that Momodora Lore Wiki, trust me I will read it

[m.]

Originally posted by Mr. Poolman:

rdein, if you create that Momodora Lore Wiki, trust me I will read it :papyrus:

^

[Dallen Malna]

First off! Lore wiki would make my day forever and ever and ever...(and ever) SECOND! I have questions too!
1: Is there any translation for the runes seen throughout? (I remember seeing them most clearly after the killing the boss Fishgod Peishe) I looked around online but I've never found anything.

2: Lore question about Kaho. In Momo 3 she is very clearly shown having a sort of crisis of faith. And given her..culture?...religion? Ends up requiring young girls be sacrificed on a regular bases and possibly created Haegok with their prayer(???) it seems justified. However (and I realize she's a silent protagonist in Momo 4) Kaho doesn't seem to show any hesitation using the gods "holy" magic and such chronologically after that fight? Have I missed something? Or did she have some sort of revelation? Or just decide "eh I've got bigger things to worry about." And die before her suspicions could be resolved?