Lots of unanswered Plot questions

[Underlord Avanious]

I'm not going to write anything out here but I did get the True Ending but it did not answer a lot of stuff in the game that was going on. Am I missing something or is there another path I should take? I love good horror but I don't like endings that give no explanations. Anyone who knows can pop me a message about it?

I know this game still has plenty or room to grow and expand to in the near future and hope to see more from it, including fun side games in the future that are not of the main game such as playing as the monster and what not.

[AestheticGamer aka Dusk Golem]

MAJOR SPOILERS

A lot of the story is told in a subtle way, here's some things I observed that aren't outright said, and some theories of mine:

-Scissorwalker is Yavna (I believe her name is), which is Vigo's daughter, and Jerome's mom/sister. In the diary before the end of the game, re-reading it after watching the ending/climax brings quite a few things to light; Vigo mentions that he gave birth to a child with his daughter, and that it was his, "son and grandson," and they named him Otto. It seems the reasoning for having sex with his daughter was to try and create a higher being, Vigo was a member and priest of a cult, and the night this all happens, they are performing two rituals, one on an island, and one on the Oceanus.

-Jerome I think has a split personality in Otto. Through the game we mostly see his Jerome personality, but he mentions he has blackouts and strange dreams, and his memory is hazy in bits. We see Jerome is unconscious in one part with Leonard and in the middle of an occult circle on the island with markings on his body, but later he's back on the ship and doesn't remember any of this and just thinks he saw creepy 'masked hoodlums'. Jerome is the good half, and the bad half I believe is Otto, his personality of his religious zealot alter ego. When Leonard gets captured on the ship, we see someone ambush him with a cult mask; the game tries to make it seem like it's Eric, and makes you trust Eric less later when you see him next to the dead body, but I believe it's Jerome, or more appropriately, Jerome's alter ego, Otto. This would explain the memory lapses, why he seems like a good kid most of the game, but then acts like a different person in the ending. He doesn't know who his parents are, but acts and talks differently in the ending for "eternal paradise with his father," even though he doesn't know who his father is.

-The Ritual has the adverse effect of bringing ghosts back to life, it is mentioned the cult's happenings have traditions that come from all over the world. The main ghost we get to know in the game is Connie, who is obviously not just Roonie's mind playing tricks on her since Monica see's Connie too, despite never having met her while she was alive. My personal theory is that the spirits use human flesh to bring themselves alive. There's a few hints towards this, they reanimate with dead people's flesh, but the biggest is an easy to miss scene in the first chapter. After you use the fuse to take the elevator upstairs, if you examine the plants in the cafe, Monica will find a pile of 'disgusting meat that looks like human flesh.' But later, those bushes will move slightly and you'll hear Connie laugh, and then observe it again and the rotting meat will be gone. Also towards the end of the game Roonie finds a pile of meat in Vigo's book room and doesn't want to look at it; the fact rotting flesh brings the dead back also helps explains Vigo and the ship's motives for killing people; they need the flesh for their ritual, which is why all the dead people are littered in the demonic circle room at the end of the game. This is also supported in one of the bad endings if you let everybody die, where Roonie walks through a bloodied hallway, bloodied herself, and passes by multiple characters from the game, all dead and bloodied, and then approaches Connie who says they all can play together forever.

-Scissorwalker I mentioned was Jerome's mother, Yavna (I believe her name is). I believe she is not a malicious spirit, but was turned into a monster by Vigo. She is obviously under control by Vigo with an enchanted false eye with a cult engraving on the back of it; which I believe might be a 'mind's eye' type of thing, since the false eye having it graved on the back would mean the symbol would then be closer to a person's brain, is just a theory of mine. But the Scissorwalker seems to obey the commands of the people with the engraving and false eyes. The only time in the game we see Scissorwalker's true nature is in Jerome's dream as Roonie is coming to see him. The Scissorwalker hasn't even appeared on the ship yet at this point, yet he dreams about it. And notably, the Scissorwalker doesn't attack him in his dream; it just slowly approaches him, and then tries to extend a hand as if to brush it against his cheek, but pulls back when it see's that he's scared, or maybe thinking she doesn't deserve him for the monster she is. It's also notable that the Scissorwalker won't hurt Jerome, because he is her son. If you pay attention to the Scissorwalker's design also, you'll notice it has blade-like objects to its neck and slit wrists, implying that Yovna may have killed herself after giving birth to Jerome and having a child with her father, but was brought back to life as a monster by Vigo and the cult. Vigo mentions in his diary he wants Yavna to not be condemned, but praised and holy in the eyes of the people for making a pure of blood child.

---

There's other things I have partial theories/evidence of, but not full, these include:

-What is up with the Moths?

-Is the ghost grandmother we see as Monica a couple of times her mother/parental figure who passed away? She mentions when you save her that her and her brothers are alone, and she takes care of them, but an older woman haunts her specifically. What's the story with that?

-If you observe a sink as Leonard, he'll comment it's a mess, and his mother would of locked whoever left it like that in a closet. Later, if you observe the swing set in the Kid's Room as Roonie, you'll see a scene with Connie, where she'll tease Roonie about her parents punishing her by locking her in the closet. They're part of the same family, I wonder what the connection is there that they bring it up subtly at least a couple of times and Roonie seems to have been impacted by it.

-What's up with Eric scratching his neck at the beginning and generally acting a bit odd?

-They may have left room for a sequel, while Vig dies, notably both Scissorwalker and Jerome get away, Ronnie still has the false eye, and there's a few open elements they could build on in the future.

-What exactly was up with Leonard being kept alive as a skinless body in the medical room? If you don't turn off his life support, he comes back as a centipede-like spinal cord on a head thing that enwraps itself with Roonie, and is more than a little disturbing. Curious of the context of that.

There's more I could blab about, but a few things I noticed.

[cheru]

spoiler tag please

[AestheticGamer aka Dusk Golem]

Originally posted by cheru:

spoiler tag please

Done and done~

[Underlord Avanious]

Thanks for the reply and the theories. I did see that odd diary at the end and it makes a lot of sense about Jerome being possessed. I figured even before the ending that Vigo was his real father. It was blatantly obvious and figured his dad was using him for purposes with the Cult. It's still very vague on what the cult was trying to accomplish and what Vigo's motives were. Was he creating a Ghost Ship because he was bored? Also I never figured out what that explosion was.

Scissorwalker's story is very vague but that's one theory you have. Scissorwalker reminded me a whole lot of Scissorman from the Clock Tower (PlayStation) game because it had a sick sense of humor and seemed to play around with his victims. I also figured that Vigo was using that monster to do the sacrifices. I do remember Leonard mentioning that everyone who is killed by that monster faces Eternity or something like that in the scene before the Snake Ending. Hoping to see more of that crazy ghost in the future.

Also what was the purpose of doing what they did to Leonard with the life support machine?

Jessica calls Roonie up and warns her about Eric being dangerous. Still no explanation on Eric and why he was acting strange at the beginning and what that rash was.

I like stories like these and hope to have most answered. I know the game wasn't 100% completed because of the KickStarter not being completed. I still have high hopes for the Developers. Seeing Akira Yamaoka (Huge fan of his music) on the list made me happy. Silent Hill and Clock Tower developers joining teams is a major positive in my book. Konami and Capcom did major injustice to both game series and the developers themselves. Also hoping to see remakes of the Clock Tower games (minus that awful Clock Tower 3 PS2 game *Is suddenly reminded of that Dennis character..... :( * ).

[Rian Romateks]

Well, I think I might have an answer for Leonard. The cult needs dead flesh for their rituals, right? It's possible that they cut off his flesh for use in the ritual, but because of his meddling in the cult's affairs, they decided to have a...erm, 'special' fate in store for him.

(Also, was it just me, or did anyone else get the feeling that the same thing was going to happen to Rooney in the "Trap Party" ending?)

[cheru]

Originally posted by AestheticGamer:

Originally posted by cheru:

spoiler tag please

Done and done~

Thank you :)

[AestheticGamer aka Dusk Golem]

Originally posted by Jennifer Darknight:

Well, I think I might have an answer for Leonard. The cult needs dead flesh for their rituals, right? It's possible that they cut off his flesh for use in the ritual, but because of his meddling in the cult's affairs, they decided to have a...erm, 'special' fate in store for him.

(Also, was it just me, or did anyone else get the feeling that the same thing was going to happen to Rooney in the "Trap Party" ending?)

That's a good point about Leonard. And thinking of it, there's a lot more evidence that dead flesh/blood is probably the thing they need. Scissorwalker right at the beginning of the game is born out of Harry's blood. The elevator we first see the grandmother in shortly after when returned is full of a dismembered corpse leaving blood everywhere. In the ritual room where we find Jerome's body as Leonard, there's two bodies hung upside down with their blood being dripped into pots for collecting. At the bonfire, the cult is roasting two bodies, but notable the two bodies aren't dead as they're still wiggling despite being burned alive. There's a pit the cult keeps full of people, the original natives to the island is my guess, who I think they're using for their rituals as they wouldn't fight back or be missed. Notably on the island, where they're doing the rituals on the local natives, there's a lot of ghosts hands we see outside of the ritual chamber, reach out like the hands from the pit we see earlier where the natives are kept trying to scratch their way out for freedom.

I also take the Trap Party ending to imply something like that. And as Agahnim mentioned, Leonard in the bad ending with him mentions that those killed by the _____ are cursed to live for eternity (and getting all the endings for the game also nets you the achievement, "For all Eternity". I don't think he specifically meant the Scissorwalker, I take it the cult in general (as I don't think he was killed/captured by the Scissorwalker, but by Otto). I think the Scissorwalker is just a special entity that Vigo is using to easily kill people, and his own daughter who he wants to make a holy being through the rituals.

Few more misc thoughts, but I think that makes part of the motive very clear.

[Rian Romateks]

It would also explain that giant lump of flesh in the owner's room (I think it's the owner's room...? The one where you check the computer for information about Vigo), which Rooney instinctively doesn't want to look at. She's looked at other dead bodies, and lumps of flesh without batting too much of an eye. Why's this lump so special?

I think it's less because she just 'knows' it's Leonard, but rather a wink at the audience to let *us* know that it's Leonard's flesh, just to give us another punch to the gut (Like we needed another one. It's hard enough going back through Chapter 2 and hearing the "I really need to lose some weight" line...).

I can't really prove this outside of speculation, but that's my guess.

[Underlord Avanious]

OOooh! That makes sense now with the blood and Leonard. I figured that was his pile of flesh in Vigo's office. Also the natives. Was wondering what those things were in that pit on the island. Did learn that the island was a test run and the final ritual of turning everyone into a restless ghost was on the ship. Also did notice the more Scissorwalker killed, more 'decay' started to appear all over the ships and all over the walls with the flies and moths. Moths do have a symbolic meaning for death to.

[ErikFinite]

Wow, some of this makes way more sense. I'm still bugged about the cults motive though and the alternate Scissorwalker in the Pre-established Harmony ending and early concept art. It definitely feels like a huge chunk is missing including how Rooney even knew that the eye thing would work. The timeline of events is also wonky, namely Jerome appearing in the stairwell, Leonard's SNS post, and Jessica's call.

Just a thought, but thinking about Clock Tower I feel like the cult was trying to summon that other Scissorwalker as a god or something that could grant a weird half death allowing "eternity" but still dying (ZOMBIES), which is my explanation of the purgatory ending(s).

I'm disappointed that the branching scenarios all play the same though, at least from what I've found. It's more repetitive and doesn't add anything but a couple of endings when it could have explained so much. I hope they manage to offer more explanation in the future.[\spoiler]

[Underlord Avanious]

Agreed. I would like to think that this is the same type of cult Mary Barrows was tied into to summon forth a controllable immortal evil such as Scissorwalker/Scissorman to have control of at their own whim, even at the sacrifice of their own children and family. The Scissorwalker was summoned forth by the cult and their sacrifices, some immortal ghostly demon that can be controlled. That's an interesting concept there though all in the name of power. Still don't know why Vigo wanted a ship full of zombies unless if this was his test run and he was just blatantly mad. There's a lot of stuff missing from the story and events such as Jessica's warning about Eric, what was going on with Eric and his strange wound and his weird behaviors and then at the last moment, he helps Roonie and Monica by giving them the anti-biotics. At least I understand what happened to Leonard and the natives on the island a little better.

Another thing. I do have to say, even without the Scissorwalker and crazy cult, that cruise ship is entirely boring. I'm a cruiser myself been on many cruise ships and could've recommended a better cruise line to go. You know your cruise is gonna suck if you have to buy snacks from vending machines and visit a mini-grocery store on board... lol!

[PurrEngine]

I got a feeling that Scissorwalker is Yolanda's another child (Jerome's brother or sister?). Because in the family photo,It does look like she is pregnant.( http://i.imgur.com/ZtWCYib.jpg ) and it's stated in the diary that she carries the second one (another one is Jerome/Otto), and Scissorwalker's voice sound kinda like a child.

Maybe Vigo did something to Yolanda (something real bad) and made her child into Scissorwalker. This might explain why Scissorwalker listened to Rooney even though Vigo have a false eye too, because she is a woman and more relate to it's mother, maybe.

Oh, right, The old woman is in the photo too. Maybe she is Vigo's mother?

Just a thought though.

[Rian Romateks]

Originally posted by ErikFurudo:

Wow, some of this makes way more sense. I'm still bugged about the cults motive though and the alternate Scissorwalker in the Pre-established Harmony ending and early concept art. It definitely feels like a huge chunk is missing including how Rooney even knew that the eye thing would work. The timeline of events is also wonky, namely Jerome appearing in the stairwell, Leonard's SNS post, and Jessica's call.

Just a thought, but thinking about Clock Tower I feel like the cult was trying to summon that other Scissorwalker as a god or something that could grant a weird half death allowing "eternity" but still dying (ZOMBIES), which is my explanation of the purgatory ending(s).

I'm disappointed that the branching scenarios all play the same though, at least from what I've found. It's more repetitive and doesn't add anything but a couple of endings when it could have explained so much. I hope they manage to offer more explanation in the future.[\spoiler] [/quote]

Yeah, there's a LOT of unexplained stuff in this game, which bothers me more than I wish it did. But playing through it, I get the feeling that there were certain flags that were meant to be there, but were removed due to time and budget constraints.

(Note: HEAVY spoilers!)

Like I have the feeling that Leonard could have been saved, and his ultimate fate in the final version was originally the result of some bad choice that you could have made during the second scenario. The end of the second scenario was extremely abrupt, and there was the fact that you were supposed to read Vigo's memoirs on the island in order to go forward with the true ending, but he doesn't actually do anything with the information that he gets ("I don't have time to think about the ravings of a madman."). Also, the knife. From the way Leonard looked at it and described it, I figured that you could pick it up, but it turns out that you couldn't. And there's the rest of Rooney's plot; wouldn't it have made more sense for someone like Leonard to be there to show and describe Vigo's memoirs when they met up, which would have ultimately made her privy to the false eye's use and thus led to the real ending? Maybe the wounded guy on the island wasn't originally Jerome, but someone else who you could try to save, which would have led you to a bad ending?

Also, speaking of Jerome, he was barely here. Putting aside the wonky timeline, he didn't have much purpose outside of being eye-candy for Rooney, telling you the solution to a puzzle, quoting Petrarch, and dumping a little exposition on you. It felt like there was supposed to be a lot more with him -- like a separate path where you play as him and learn a lot more about the cult -- but ultimately he was underused.

Monica was underused, too, and I have a sneaking suspicion that instead of playing her in the first scenario, Leonard in the second, and Rooney in the third, there was supposed to be a Helen / Jennifer mechanic with the two, and that the beginning of the third scenario that we got was actually the beginning of Rooney's first scenario. (I also want to know how Monica got into that room in the ending and was able to smack Jerome from behind without anyone noticing her come in)

This would also explain why Angie can sacrifice herself for you...and that's it. Everyone else you met either died or you never saw again. What about Eric? The various other people you meet on the ship? You get no inkling to their final fates, and I think that's less because it was overlooked, but because there was originally going to be a "Save the people" mechanic that wasn't able to be implemented in the final version.

So...yeah. >_> I might have a lot of feelings about this.

[Underlord Avanious]

From what I'm seeing from all of this, the game and the story line hinted and shown in the current game is vastly unfinished. All we can come up with is untestable hypothesis and guesses about what's happening in the game. I do now understand that the Scissorwalker is a spirit under the control of Vigo now. I really don't think there should be a real backstory on who it was or if it was a person at all other than something the cult used as a sacrificial tool. Another idea in my head is that the Scissorwalker is made multiple entities rather than just one built up by many sacrifices. The unchanging amount of noises that comes from it ranging from screams of men and women, babies crying to even animalistic sounds kinda hints at that idea. It sounds like something that was made of multiple trapped spirits unified as a single malicious force. That's one idea in my mind. I think it'll be left as is with the Scissorwalker to make up our own interpretations of what it can be other than a tool Vigo uses to exterminate everyone with. Also, for another (less than serious) guess, Vigo went to Silent Hill where he found the ScissorWalker thing and adopted it. Freakin Silent Hill monsters. lol!

I'm going to be patient and hope the developers will be able to gather up enough funds in the near future to continue on and finish the game adding what they intended on adding. Another game I bought last year (War for the Overworld) that was also a Kickstarter was released unfinished. The game was almost unplayable but I was patient as the Developers of the game worked more on it as more funds came their way and now the game is playable with tons more content added to it than it originally had. So it's possible for Nightcry and I will be around to help support what I can even if they release additional stuff.

As for the Jerome being useless comment, I whole heartily agree with that. If he was left out of the game, I wouldn't have noticed or cared. He was just some pretty boy with some emo backstory and nothing more that the Scissorwalker leaves alone because he's part of the cult with Vigo. I want a horror story, not a love story.

[jock itch]

The original Clock Tower game was similarly vague in terms of its plot beyond the obvious fact of four girls being adopted, etc. Thankfully back then we had a lot more media to draw interesting facts and tidbits from, such as manga, drama CDs and the like. Just wanted to say that after playing the game and being utterly confused throughout, it was fascinating to come into this thread and read everyone's theories. Brilliant. Hifumi Kono certainly has a fantastic mind for horror, even if the ideas aren't very clearly expressed in the game itself.