Do ribbon worlds loop horizontally?

[Blind]

I haven't gotten to the edge yet, too many biteys

edit: changed titles cuz I called ribbon world 'ring' world

[Khaylain]

What do you mean about "ring worlds"? Do you mean ribbon world (where one of the axes are extremely limited in their distance)? If so, then no. There's no looping. There's a maximum distance globally from spawn, but it's impractical to reach it.

[Blind]

ya, i meant ribbon world... i was posting from memory

[Drizzt]

Originally posted by Khaylain:

What do you mean about "ring worlds"? Do you mean ribbon world (where one of the axes are extremely limited in their distance)? If so, then no. There's no looping. There's a maximum distance globally from spawn, but it's impractical to reach it.

interesting topic though - i wonder if there are any mods that create "globe-like" maps that do loop back on themselves - i suspect such a thing may not be possible or may require a significant amount of trickery - i wonder if it something that they may implement for the Expansion?

but if anyone knows of any mods that do such a thing i would be very interested

thanks :-)

EDIT: i guess you could put a "warp zone" at the map edges that would transport the player to the opposite edge - so maybe not such significant trickery lol

[Snuggy Serian]

Originally posted by Drizzt:

EDIT: i guess you could put a "warp zone" at the map edges that would transport the player to the opposite edge - so maybe not such significant trickery lol

Not the same as a globe though. Train goes not brrrt around the world.

[Drizzt]

Originally posted by Snuggy Serian:

Originally posted by Drizzt:

EDIT: i guess you could put a "warp zone" at the map edges that would transport the player to the opposite edge - so maybe not such significant trickery lol

Not the same as a globe though. Train goes not brrrt around the world.

would need to have the warp affect everything - so possibly still not exceptionally complicated trickery - but likely to bring most machines to their knees pretty soon lol

also for trains it would likely not be able to do a smooth warp, with each train carriage warping as it hit the barrier - would need to be entire train as soon as it hit

also trains could not path through the warp zones - so would need some dummy stations and possibly circuitry

so yeah - probably good reasons why no one has made a mod to do it - and why it is likely just a dream feature for the future :-)

[jonnybanks29]

I can't imagine it would be too complicated, you'd simply load the next chunk using data from the opposite side of the map. But the map is so large the difference would be 0 for most players, and negligible for the few who do reach it.

[Drizzt]

Originally posted by jonnybanks29:

I can't imagine it would be too complicated, you'd simply load the next chunk using data from the opposite side of the map. But the map is so large the difference would be 0 for most players, and negligible for the few who do reach it.

i think the point would be that you could have a smaller map size but have it loop - making it essentially "endless" like a planet is, but at any scale - one could just keep circling it

i suspect there would be a lot of complexity in doing it, apart from the most basic way - e.g. having the edge of the map displayed as it is now, but the player warping to the opposite side when crossing the edge

adding vehicle and biters being able to traverse the edges is more complex - especially if wanting trains to be able to path find

and then there is actually visually streaming it as a contiguous map, which may well be beyond the capabilities of the current engine as it stands

i may be wrong - but i suspect they have mechanisms in place that are able to behave a certain way (and perform efficiently) specifically because there is no need to loop the map

but i also suspect there may be ways to implement some elements of a contiguous world, as i mentioned - just probably not all

and i suspect that if there are not already mods that implement some version of it, that it is not especially simple, or maybe even possible - hence why i was wondering if anyone was aware of mods doing such a thing

in my search i found a few mods that implement the Earth map - i haven't tried them yet, but i didn't see anything to indicate that they loop

plus if something like Space Exploration does not do such a thing, where it would be particularly appropriate - then it may well be very complex or hard to pull of in an adequately playable way

but i am glad that the OP suggested it, since it would be a very cool feature - and maybe it will be part of a future upgrade - or sequel - or maybe it would be possible to mod something decent in, and just no one with the skills felt compelled to do so as of yet - or maybe the Expansion upgrade will provide the additional modding capabilities for such a mod

etc

anyway - looks like no looping maps for the moment :-)

[Tydo]

Not complicated at all to do, hypothetically. Even some 3d games running on MSDOS did it. 30 years ago. The wraparound is dead simple.

One way to think about it is your rectangular (or square) map tiled endlessly in all directions. Naturally not what the implementation will be doing, but it gives you a pretty good idea of how simple it is.
What you do need to care about is something else:
The map generator. You must take care, when generating the map, to avoid any obvious discontinuities where the map wraps. Not a practical issue, but it looks weird if you dont. Or you get strange cutoffs, for example where a lake or resource spot meets the world edge.
The mapgen already has some issues there, when plopping down resourse areas near water some of it gets deposited on the other side of the water obstacle.

[Drizzt]

Originally posted by Tydo:

Not complicated at all to do, hypothetically. Even some 3d games running on MSDOS did it. 30 years ago. The wraparound is dead simple.

One way to think about it is your rectangular (or square) map tiled endlessly in all directions. Naturally not what the implementation will be doing, but it gives you a pretty good idea of how simple it is.
What you do need to care about is something else:
The map generator. You must take care, when generating the map, to avoid any obvious discontinuities where the map wraps. Not a practical issue, but it looks weird if you dont. Or you get strange cutoffs, for example where a lake or resource spot meets the world edge.
The mapgen already has some issues there, when plopping down resourse areas near water some of it gets deposited on the other side of the water obstacle.

the point was not that the concept is complicated (although as you mentioned, map gen would be a particular area that would need some algorithm tweaking)

it was that the game as it currently stands is not designed to allow it - and therefore to implement it in the current game in a way that would work well would likely be complex (or maybe even not possible)

i.e. it could work on a simple level to transport the player to the opposite side of the map - but not so simply for vehicles or biters - especially when it comes to trains planning their routes

and if you want it reflected by map screen rendering or even regular in game seamless rendering of the world in any direction, again that would likely not be simple, or maybe even possible

and that is without considering the UPS overhead of what the various methods to overcome some of those challenges might entail

so yes - simple concept, but likely not a simple feature to implement in this specific game in its current specific incarnation

hence why no mods appear to do it (since no one has of yet suggested one, and i could not find anything on the mod portal)

[Vyndicu]

Distorting a square map (Factorio world) to approximate a 3D sphere and having the player "warp/teleport" to the other edge when they walk to it would make for a surreal experience with the current Factorio engine as it is right now.


I see room for improvement, such as a fixed number of chunks that scale corresponding to a bigger or smaller world.

Another improvement having the map edge show the opposite side so you can see where you are going when you walk to the map's edge.

Making the tile not quite square (think Dyson Sphere Program, where you can create a blueprint that adapts to non-square tiles).


I am not opposed to a world where you can walk or move in one direction and end back up where you were. The amount of work it would take to make this happen. I would venture to say this one falls under the improbability odd of happening category.

[Tydo]

Originally posted by Drizzt:

the point was not that the concept is complicated (although as you mentioned, map gen would be a particular area that would need some algorithm tweaking)

it was that the game as it currently stands is not designed to allow it - and therefore to implement it in the current game in a way that would work well would likely be complex (or maybe even not possible)

I get you, agree that it not supported at this point. My point is another. Have to put it out there that there is no "hard" reason for them not to do it. Letting them know we know it is not so hard, if they begin making excuses. Catch my drift? I want this feature too, it makes smaller restricted maps much more fun.

[Tydo]

Missed a spot.

Originally posted by Drizzt:

and if you want it reflected by map screen rendering or even regular in game seamless rendering of the world in any direction, again that would likely not be simple, or maybe even possible

Nah. Simple matter of "origin offset" (it makes much more sense if you have a little programming/graphics experience).
I would recommend you try a old game and see what I mean. Landscape seamlessly stitched, (mini)map rending perfectly fine.
Magic Carpet 2 (from some time in the 90s). I would link it on g o g but steam does not like that.

[Drizzt]

Originally posted by Vyndicu:

I am not opposed to a world where you can walk or move in one direction and end back up where you were. The amount of work it would take to make this happen. I would venture to say this one falls under the improbability odd of happening category.

yup - that was what i was hoping to convey - would be a cool feature - but almost certainly not possible to implement effectively as a mod at the current time

but for all we know, seamless worlds may be a headline feature of the Expansion :-)

or at least something that may become more possible with whatever engine enhancements are planned

it would certainly be pretty significant feature addition, both in likely effort to implement, as well as in what it would add to the game

and i am sure it is something they have discussed - along with elevation, subterranean features, undersea exploration etc

really gonna be interesting to play the Expansion to see what they decided to add/change - as well as hearing about all of the ideas that they deferred or discarded

i am sure there are a stack of FFFs waiting to be released once they decide to let the cat out of the bag lol :-)

[Drizzt]

Originally posted by Tydo:

Originally posted by Drizzt:

the point was not that the concept is complicated (although as you mentioned, map gen would be a particular area that would need some algorithm tweaking)

it was that the game as it currently stands is not designed to allow it - and therefore to implement it in the current game in a way that would work well would likely be complex (or maybe even not possible)

I get you, agree that it not supported at this point. My point is another. Have to put it out there that there is no "hard" reason for them not to do it. Letting them know we know it is not so hard, if they begin making excuses. Catch my drift? I want this feature too, it makes smaller restricted maps much more fun.

i catch your drift - i just disagree with your assessment of it being a trivial change - or that it would be reasonable to label reasons for not doing it as "excuses" - since at no point (so far as i am aware) was it ever a promised (or likely even a publicly discussed) feature

just because i think a feature would be cool, that doesn't mean the devs have to implement it to retain my respect or my business - and i would certainly not suggest something was easy or simple to implement without sufficient knowledge of the architecture, design and implementation of the software in question (unless it was exceptionally obvious) - or preemptively dismiss decisions to not implement the feature as excuses

maybe i am just a little too polite lol ;-)

Originally posted by Tydo:

Missed a spot.

Originally posted by Drizzt:

and if you want it reflected by map screen rendering or even regular in game seamless rendering of the world in any direction, again that would likely not be simple, or maybe even possible

Nah. Simple matter of "origin offset" (it makes much more sense if you have a little programming/graphics experience).
I would recommend you try a old game and see what I mean. Landscape seamlessly stitched, (mini)map rending perfectly fine.
Magic Carpet 2 (from some time in the 90s). I would link it on g o g but steam does not like that.

i know the game, and i do have sufficient commercial (and garage) software development experience to understand how a seamlessly scrolling looped map might be implemented, as well as the significant differences between the two games, and also the possible impact of implementing features that were never intended, especially if they are rushed

MC2 (from the very brief time i had with it) was entirely focused on the movement across the map, and was designed and implemented around that - and i seem to recall back in those days there were many games where a big part of the draw (in the sense of features that drew people to them) was maps that looped back on themselves - to give a simulated globe experience

as well as other (non 3d) games which simply caused objects which crossed the edge to teleport to the opposite edge - although likely none anywhere near as complex as Factorio

Factorio is a different game with different goals and which has been designed and implemented to facilitate those goals

as an aside (albeit a relevant one) - i have myself developed personal projects with features that overlap into this area - such as a procedurally generated 2D map that a player controlled object moves across with a scrolling top down view

i suspect i could make that become an enclosed system that would loop back on itself - and it is very possible that it wouldn't be a Herculean task (although none of us know how good Hercules was at coding)

but my game does not have the massive number of overlapping and continuously updating systems as Factorio (belts, vehicles, biters, power - also, the day night cycle would get very interesting with maps which are now behaving as planets) - or the multiple levels of engine infrastructure - or any commercial implications if it doesn't work perfectly in every way - etc

anyway......

i suspect it is possible that we are simply expressing different attitudes towards this game and its developers

so far as i am concerned they owe me nothing, and have delivered a best in class game with a stunning level of polish, as well as extremely detailed development blogs that spanned many many years

i do like the sound of this feature

but i also almost immediately calculated that it is not trivial, especially to have it integrated effectively into all parts of the game

like i said, there are simple "hacks" that can allow for gameplay to take place in a map that loops back on itself from the perspective of player movement, utilizing a warp - but the more aspects of the game that would need to account for the cyclic nature of the map, the more complex it would be

and as mentioned - there are reasons that mods have not done it, and why the modding system may well not even support any of the more complex aspects

personally - i prefer to "let them know" that i appreciate all of the great work that they have put into this game, and that i understand that new features such as this are not trivial - but that it is something about which i would be excited, and that i would actively support if they chose to do it

i guess it is just that we are approaching the subject from opposite ends

however - if you truly believe that it would be a trivial change that they could knock out without much bother, then i would be interested to know the technical reasons that you believe that

also - it is not beyond the realms of possibility that they have already implemented the feature into the Expansion - and maybe they will release a blog about how easy it was lol - and then i shall have plenty of egg on my face and will concede that you held all of the cards....

as in the punched cards with Magic Carpets 1's code on them ;-)

anyway - long post i know - and if you decided not to bother with it all then i understand :-)

TL;DR: agree to disagree - i don't think it is trivial - and even if it was less complex or less work than i suspect, i would still not preemptively berate them for not implementing it

have a nice day :-)