Ore Hardness and Mining Tools

[[LIVE]FallenAngelGER.TTV]

Greetings,

Please be fair and not rude in any circumstances,
this is just a open thought process of just a friendly men,
who wants to share some opinions....

The world is already hard enough don't let the Thread here get as hard as the world already is.


Lets start...

I do Love Factorio since it was born! nothing will ever change that.
But there is a controversy going on and i do want to try to understand and also find a solution for the problem, in any way its not a problem its just a matter of things as they used to be.

I do like the improvements the Dev-Team has made over the years and still Factorio is one of THE greatest game ever made, even tho where i first saw the game i was not seen the sheer potential.

With any change you make to a game, there are always two sharp edges, the one against and as you can think the opposite. Either way it doesn't matter how you do things you do them wrong, that's what life does teach you!

As the description in the title already tells.
Its going to be a Topic about the Ore Hardness and Mining Tools.

Before 0.17 there was a small little difference many people know what i mean by that...
You had to care about your Pickaxes, Manage resources also get better tools over time, from my perspective it was perfect, getting new tools via research and gladly craft better tools, where you saw differences and also had to craft new tools.

Lets see which game has kinda the same concept?

RIGHT Minecraft - except for the research part.

Tell me which Game is as successful or even more as Factorio?
- Damn Right Minecraft (at least it used to be)

i want to bring clear points why i do think this Change on 1.17,
was game-changing, for OG Player. Not nearly as much for newer people tho.

As well don't forget about the researches, you did had back in the day, one additional research for a better Pickaxe, that was the Steel Pickaxe.

But hold on let me finish my sentence!

modders did made a great job back then, (as well as today)

the ground foundation allowed us modders, to add new Tools from different ores.
A physical item, a pickaxe. it was stratifying to see new tools hold in your hands and seen actually differences in mining speed as well in 3d objects.


Now as it is in 1.17+
This whole thing is basically reduced - removed from its roots.

Still there is a "Research Project" for mining speed, which was before 1.17 as well there.
But it doesn't has the same feeling as it used to be back in the day.


I get the point, making games more enjoyable for the wide community, simplifying content to reduce stress for new players.

There are less and less games which make games as powerful as they are, i can count a handful of games which really take complexity to a next level.
Best example is "Path of Exile", you see why is that you may ask (why does it matter?) which game dominates the complete hack's slash genre?

- RIGHT again its the top dog of all ARGs. "Path of Exile".


Because it does matter i want to tell a tale and make comparisons.

I hold my breach from now on, cause i could talk for ages about similar changes.
BUT the MOST noticeable change was simplifying the Pickaxe & Mining System with its progression curve....


I really hope this Topic can move rocks, Because i really has wished CSW.software made it so with a checkbox, if you would like to enable the feature or not.

Which would had be the best decision ever made, just because people can toggle it and wish it to have or not. To add more Complexity, i don't know why but i can't get it out of my head, that this feature was removed or simplified.

The latest thing i want to talk about now, is that the modders are the last hope for this Topic if CSW.software won't like listen to it.

I know it would need alot of hard work and upkeep coasts to bring it back and it may sound dumb and not coast-efficient, but those small things are making games near perfection.


IF there are Talented folks who also share a kinda same story, (concept let me know)

This Thread is supposed to be there to get attention.

A Help-call so to say, lets bring the feature back!

I would love working with some of you together to get the feature were it belongs!

I don't script/code with lua, (zero experience with lua)
I am a c# Mod developer.

But i would like Helping and finding the Team and Resources we would need to get it back where it belongs.


Pretty sure messed something up, in context or even at some sentences logic, but keep in mind its my third language on top comes i never write those novels.


Share your opinions because i am very curious what you think about it.

Also be Save in those Hard Times.
Peace be with you my friend.

[AlexMBrennan]

It's great that you are enjoying a lot of different games more than you are enjoying Factorio. I would suggest that you go play those games instead of wasting your time playing Factorio.

[Edifier]

Tools fit Minecraft a lot better than it does in Factorio.

The only time you mine manually in the game is the literally start of the game. The moment you can just support the normal miners in some way they are going to be mining for you for the rest of the game. Even when you play end game fully modded game where you end up with 600% mining speed it is no match for my modded miner which is a Moho Mine.

This isn't really something that would make Factorio better.

[Morsk]

Ore Hardness wasn't removed; it was replaced with a binary system where modders can specify that some machines are required for some ores. This is better, because it lets modders design freely without having to reverse-engineer a bunch of numbers to shake out correctly. Let them put their effort into designing recipes, byproducts, and loops, not some dumb mining numbers no one cared about because they just spammed more machines until the belts were full.

Mining Tools were clutter the game doesn't need, especially as it already has Power Armor, weapons, and vehicles. I'm glad it's gone.

Not everything removed is some conspiracy to make the game simpler. Sometimes it was just bad. Factorio was Early Access when these things were removed.

[Zinc Saucier]

Originally posted by Edifier:

The only time you mine manually in the game is the literally start of the game. The moment you can just support the normal miners in some way they are going to be mining for you for the rest of the game.

This is probably why the pickaxe isn't a craftable item. It's a good decision by the devs. Some people think you should always have a default pistol weapon and infinite pistol ammo for the same reason you have a pickaxe.

[knighttemplar1960]

The only thing the pickaxe did was slightly speed up the beginning game. You start with a burner mining drill and a stone furnace. All you need is one piece of wood (you wouldn't have to even cut down a tree just pick up one of the fallen dead ones) put the burner mining drill on your starting coal and put the piece of wood in. Take coal out and fuel the burner mining drill as needed until you get a decent amount of coal in your inventory. Pick up the drill and move it to stone. Fuel the drill and get some stone. Craft a few more stone furnaces. Pick up the drill and move it to your iron patch. Fuel the drill and get iron ore, put the ore in a furnace with some coal, take out the iron plates and make more mining drills.

That's the first 5 minutes of the game and you never need to use a pickaxe again. All the pickaxe does is save you a little time. You can start your burner mining drill and go mine some stone and iron ore by hand in the first 5 minutes. That lets you get it done in 4 minutes instead because you don't have to pick up the first drill. All you did was save a minute and you don't need the pickaxe after that either way you do it.

I would guess that the devs realized this and decided to eliminate the axe.

[Lunacy]

I think pickaxe was removed because two reasons.
Dumb people didn't know how to mine properly (instead of right click they would drag the pickaxe item out of their inventory and try to left-click iron ore with it)

And It's something you just make and forget about and just becomes a sudden inconvenience when it runs out of durability. It didn't really add to the game. Wood panelling was also useless because you only ever used it to make shotguns or wooden crates then never used that recipe ever again.

Few things remain like early game armor but those serve a purpose in progression, even if you never craft them again.

So now the default mining speed i what you had with an iron pick, then the steel research speeds you up to steel pick speed and it's one less thing to worry about.

The best thing is there's mods to add back pickaxes, and even add in progression pickaxes you can feel like you're mining with your bare hands instead of using mining drills slightly faster on each upgrade.