Fluid Mechanics, throughput and pumps

[Sin]

Hi,
I was reading the wiki article on the topic and tested a little in my world, but I must admit that I seem to fail to understand some elemental part of the fluid mechanics.
What I think to know so far:

A pipe can hold 100 units of liquid.
Throughput per second and the 100 unit cap are not directly related, apart from an upper limit.
Fluids in adjacent pipes / tanks will level itself out. (A storage tank filled to 25 % will mean that my connected pipes are filled to 25 instead of 100, unless I put a pump down, which will force the pipes to be full at all times.)

What I am looking for is an understanding on the throughput mechanics especially related to distance and pumps. The wiki had a chart which (if I got it right) stated that you will have a throughput of 1285 units of fluid per second over 12 tiles given that the beginning of your pipeline is a pump or oilpatch.

I was unable to confirm or debunk this number, which leads me to thinking that I don't understand something fundamental.
Please sent help.

[Overeagerdragon]

Fluid mechanics have changed a tad in the meanwhile and I don't think the wiki was updated accordingly....from my understanding is that, to get optimal throughput, you should set a pump every 10 ABOVE ground pipe instances (with the entrance and exit of undergrounds counting as 2 pipe segments....leaving 8 more till you need another pump. However....with the ample amount of energy at your disposal and coal serving very little purpose at some point....you might as well insert a pump whenever your fluid levels drop below YOUR OWN comfortable level....

For me that means every tank output and inputs through a pump; the amount of extra energy required is a trifle in comparison to what a single smelter array consumes in inserter power required.

[Killcreek2]

@overeagerdragon ~ I read a comment on reddit by Klonan that UG pipes in 0.17 no longer give a range buff, now they count as the full distance (equivalent to the over-land distance). They still only count as 2 entities for UPS though.

@OP ~ 1285 fluid per second for a distance of up to 12 tiles sounds right for 0.16. Should be similar numbers for current 0.17, as the new flow algorithm was not added yet according to the patchnotes (only some UPS optimisations).

edit ~ This forums post[forums.factorio.com] has a good explanation of the fluid mechanics, with pics & equations & even graphs.

[Lunacy]

I was confused about it too since my first base has giant long water pipes that show no issues. The only time water had become an issue was when I had more than 20 boilers in 1 pipeline.

[Sin]

Thanks for the somewhat suprising info. I was unable to confirm the drop off after 12 tiles of pipe, but Lunacy mentioned that he had seen no issues with water either.
I will setup another test with oil just to get a better feel for it.

[Richard]

Originally posted by Lunacy:

I was confused about it too since my first base has giant long water pipes that show no issues. The only time water had become an issue was when I had more than 20 boilers in 1 pipeline.

This fits in well with the ratio for power of 1 Off shore pump -> 20 Boilers -> 40 Steam engines

1 Pump supplies 1200/s water, 1 boiler needs 60/s water so 1200/60= 20 Max boilers per offshore pump

[BattleRabbitTM]

water moves differently to oil as oil is more dense with the new fulid machanics.
if the pumpjacks is more than 30 pipe to ground placements pressure will be next to nothing. either build your refinery right next to your oil or train it in.
if you dont want to train it in your will need a pump at each pipe to ground segment. before .17 cracking wasnt needed as much but now cracking is a big part of the game now to keep fulids moving

[impetus_maximus]

i'm confused. i was under the impression the new fluid mechanics were delayed for 0.17

" We were testing the algorithm, and there was a lot of back and forth, but the time was running by and there were some problems not that easy to fix. To prevent things from getting broken in a ways we couldn't anticipate and not to potentially delay the release any further, we decided to split the change.

So the fluid mixing prevention and fluid update optimisations are in 0.17, but the new algorithm was put aside for further research. "
https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-283

[Killcreek2]

@Impetus ~ yup, as I also mentioned earlier in this thread.

So the fluid throughput should be roughly the same as in 0.16, at least for now (other than UG pipes not giving a distance boost any more).

[impetus_maximus]

Originally posted by Killcreek2:

@Impetus ~ yup, as I also mentioned earlier in this thread.

So the fluid throughput should be roughly the same as in 0.16, at least for now (other than UG pipes not giving a distance boost any more).

ah ok. thanks

[Fishy]

Originally posted by Battlerabbit:

water moves differently to oil as oil is more dense with the new fulid machanics.




I dont think this is correct. Source?

[chesspaladin]

Originally posted by impetus maximus:

i'm confused. i was under the impression the new fluid mechanics were delayed for 0.17

" We were testing the algorithm, and there was a lot of back and forth, but the time was running by and there were some problems not that easy to fix. To prevent things from getting broken in a ways we couldn't anticipate and not to potentially delay the release any further, we decided to split the change.

So the fluid mixing prevention and fluid update optimisations are in 0.17, but the new algorithm was put aside for further research. "
https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-283

Ahhh. Thank you. This solves a mystery for me. And once again, the answer was there all the time in fff.