Bug with refinery and advanced processing

[Nailfoot]

So I don't know how many people are like me, but when I lay down my refineries, I always lay down the pipes for the water so I can convert to advanced processing easily enough. I don't hook up the water right away though.

Two issues in 0.17:

1. You CAN'T hook up the water early because the pipe is set for "crude" since either input wants crude.

2. When you convert to advanced processing, you will find that both pipes now have crude in them. Its as if the refinery outputs crude to the line that I wanted water to be in.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1677662352

Is it just me? I set a bug report on the official forums, in case its not just me missing something.

https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=67221&p=409996#p409996

[pat]

I don't see how this is an 0.17 bug. Was this different with 0.16? You could hook up water to a refinery prior to advanced oil processing and it was ok?

Seems to me that the most sensible thing to do is to NOT hook up water until you have advanced oil processing. You can lay down the basic structure, but leave out that last pipe that connects it to the refinery.

[KatherineOfSky]

Originally posted by pat:

I don't see how this is an 0.17 bug. Was this different with 0.16? You could hook up water to a refinery prior to advanced oil processing and it was ok?

Pre-0.17 it was perfectly OK to hook up water. The refinery didn't use the water until it had the correct recipe, but you could still fill the pipes in preparation for later tech.

[pat]

I'm surprised that you didn't have an issue with mixing fluids.

[Nailfoot]

Originally posted by pat:

I'm surprised that you didn't have an issue with mixing fluids.

Well, that actually is the issue I believe. In order to avoid mixing fluids, the pipe is set to be a "crude" pipe. That's fine.

But, the refinery should not be pumping crude INTO that pipe. Once I switch to advanced processing, the pipe should flip over to water as that is what the input changes to. It does not, since the pipe now has crude in it.

The major issue, I believe, is that the refinery is putting crude into the pipe. Its like some excess crude flows through the refinery and out the other input.

[brian_va]

.17 seems more sensitive, or maybe aware is a better word, of mixing fluids. its probably more of a working as expected thing than a bug, but it shouldn't be trying to pump oil out of the refinery, so it shouldn't be set as crude instead of just empty.

[vts6482]

Cancelling a fluid recipe will try to push fluids out of a crafter into connected pipes.

Oddly, this should have caused fluid mixing even in 0.16 but never had an issue with it there.

Edit: Also, once you set up advanced oil processing you cannot switch a few of the refineries to the basic process (i.e. if you need more lubricant production), at least not without disconnecting the water.

[Warlord]

The fact that you have any crude oil at all in that pipeline means you mixed fluids somewhere. It might not be emptying right now because the other pipe is so full that when a new craft comes along it takes it all from the other pipe. Double and triple check the water line to see if you are crossing your lines anywhere.

Then, to clear the line easily enough, disconnect your main crude oil line for a few cycles so the crude-hungry refineries shlurp up the crude from both lines.

(Edit: I was about to state that due to the new liquid mechanics, you can easily swap the liquid in the line, but I don't think that made it into this release....)

[Nailfoot]

Originally posted by Warlord:

The fact that you have any crude oil at all in that pipeline means you mixed fluids somewhere. It might not be emptying right now because the other pipe is so full that when a new craft comes along it takes it all from the other pipe. Double and triple check the water line to see if you are crossing your lines anywhere.

Then, to clear the line easily enough, disconnect your main crude oil line for a few cycles so the crude-hungry refineries shlurp up the crude from both lines.

(Edit: I was about to state that due to the new liquid mechanics, you can easily swap the liquid in the line, but I don't think that made it into this release....)

No, that line was never live, never connected. It was a dead line from a blueprint that I used 14 million times in 0.16.

The refinery very simply put crude in it. It was a very small amount, 10-20 units per pipe segment, but still that broke the connection for water.

[Nypyren]

0.17 appears to "reserve" pipes for a fluid type the moment you connect it to an input or output of that particular type, even without any fluid actually being present whatsoever.

[Laiden]

I have a similar problem, but i used to set up alternate pipe routes and had toggeable pumpls to switch between different sources on demand:

water ------pumpA---\
light oil-----pumpB---|---consumer
crude oil---pumpC---/

Problem is, that .17 wont let me connect the pump ends with different fluid types, even the pipe shows 0.0 fill. The pump itself reserves the whole INPUT pipe with that fluid type, although its turned off. In my opinion, the pump should'nt copy the output to the input type. Also, if anything is on the input side, should be pumped to the output side AND the pump should be able to empty the whole input pipe (like pre .17, the pipe not tagged with any fluid). All this is not possible anymore.

I consider this a minor bug, or at least a regression of funcionality. Can we report such things somewhere without a registered factorio account? (Only steam, or incognito)

[luziferius]

Originally posted by Nypyren:

0.17 appears to "reserve" pipes for a fluid type the moment you connect it to an input or output of that particular type, even without any fluid actually being present whatsoever.

That’s it.
Both input pipes are reserved for crude oil, as long as any refinery reserves it for crude.
You have to temporarily unset ALL refinery receipes. This will clear the reservation for crude on the input pipe. Then you can set the refineries to advanced refining. The moment you set the first, it will reserve the input pipe for water.

[Lunacy]

Best bet is to not connect the water pipe until you have advanced.

[Warlord]

Originally posted by luziferius:

Originally posted by Nypyren:

0.17 appears to "reserve" pipes for a fluid type the moment you connect it to an input or output of that particular type, even without any fluid actually being present whatsoever.

That’s it.
Both input pipes are reserved for crude oil, as long as any refinery reserves it for crude.
You have to temporarily unset ALL refinery receipes. This will clear the reservation for crude on the input pipe. Then you can set the refineries to advanced refining. The moment you set the first, it will reserve the input pipe for water.

This is... odd to say the least. If anything ought to reserve the pipe for a liquid, it should be the presence of a liquid PRODUCER, not a liquid CONSUMER. Reserving the entire line of pipes because one of two crude oil inputs is connected is just dumb.

[The_Mell]

Originally posted by Warlord:

Originally posted by luziferius:

That’s it.
Both input pipes are reserved for crude oil, as long as any refinery reserves it for crude.
You have to temporarily unset ALL refinery receipes. This will clear the reservation for crude on the input pipe. Then you can set the refineries to advanced refining. The moment you set the first, it will reserve the input pipe for water.

This is... odd to say the least. If anything ought to reserve the pipe for a liquid, it should be the presence of a liquid PRODUCER, not a liquid CONSUMER. Reserving the entire line of pipes because one of two crude oil inputs is connected is just dumb.

Calling it dumb may be dumb.

There are multiple advantages of a bidirectional solution:
- you can work backwards from consumer with little chance to screw up (,too)
- it can work even if you have non-declaring sources (no producer but a train unloading station for example)
- in case of recipe change there's a chance of not wasting fluid by pushing it back into reserved pipe (even though this had caused the trouble we encountered here)

Additionally, i am not sure how you want it to work.
If a pipe is connected to crude oil input, safety feature to avoid failure means that this pipe should carry crude oil. Whether the final connection is tried to be established dircetly at refinery or somewhere else, shouldn't be a difference and safety should trigger. Or in other words: every extension of a consumer port is more or less equal to consumer port and why try to connect something wrong..?

Getting rid of this safety would be a step back in my opinion - and i think this was even the foundation of this feature of reserving empty pipes and mentioned in a Friday Fact (but i'm not sure and it's too late to search for it now).

[Laiden]

Originally posted by The_Mell:

Originally posted by Warlord:

Or in other words: every extension of a consumer port is more or less equal to consumer port and why try to connect something wrong..?

Not a pump! Or other instances with functionality similar to a valve