(Spoiler) Dorothy Crane (Charm Option)

[ZigZag]

What a kick in the balls by the devs. Come on m8, I use that same charm with the same blue text on every civilian I come across and everything is fine, nobody turns into some crazy ass zombie.

But then I use it on Dorothy Crane, expecting similar outcome, and the entire district turns to madness.

.....Really feeling cheated on this option since I did my best to preserve everyones lives, even the bad apples of the districts.

[Worthless Being]

If you read the documents about Vampires that you collect, you would've known that it was going to happen. Blue doesn't mean "good" or "bad", it means "dominate the person to obtain what you want".

[ZigZag]

Originally posted by Starkalam:

If you read the documents about Vampires that you collect, you would've known that it was going to happen.

Then there is no consistency, as every other civilian is just fine when you use the same charm (blue text) option to extort information. Or when you mesmerize them and release them.

[kesat]

There are some in-game reason why this happend in this case.

a) Charming people is usually not a problem, that's right. But in this particular case you are really messing up someones mind by a lot. There's a book somewhere which actually describes and warns about the possible side effects if vampires are going really nuts in somebodys mind. Reading lore is sometimes important in games.

And you can also see this same side effect in case of your own mother after Mary played too much in her mind. She's pretty much nuts afterwards

b) Even if she would survive and didn't become a Skal: by charming her you actually make sure that she's unable to finance her hospital operation in whitechapel. She wouldn't be able to do any good in any case.


But on the good side: It's not that much of an issue. Just because she died you can still have a good ending - as long as you don't kill people or at least prevent anarchy.

Originally posted by Six Sticks:

Originally posted by Starkalam:

If you read the documents about Vampires that you collect, you would've known that it was going to happen.

Then there is no consistency, as every other civilian is just fine when you use the same charm (blue text) option to extort information. Or when you mesmerize them and release them.

Just as i wrote: It's another level of manipulation. Not really comparable.

[ZigZag]

Originally posted by kesat:

There are some in-game reason why this happend in this case.

a) Charming people is usually not a problem, that's right. But in this particular case you are really messing up someones mind by a lot. There's a book somewhere which actually describes and warns about the possible side effects if vampires are going really nuts in somebodys mind. Reading lore is sometimes important in games.

And you can also see this same side effect in case of your own mother after Mary played too much in her mind. She's pretty much nuts afterwards

b) Even if she would survive and didn't become a Skal: by charming her you actually make sure that she's unable to finance her hospital operation in whitechapel. She wouldn't be able to do any good in any case.


But on the good side: It's not that much of an issue. Just because she died you can still have a good ending - as long as you don't kill people or at least prevent anarchy.

Originally posted by Six Sticks:

Then there is no consistency, as every other civilian is just fine when you use the same charm (blue text) option to extort information. Or when you mesmerize them and release them.

Just as i wrote: It's another level of manipulation. Not really comparable.

I feel cheated by the text, it could have been written more clear, considering it was such an important decision.

I didn't know he was going to go ham on his charming ability, simply thought he would do the same thing he always does when asking people questions.

The "Spare option" actually seemed like I was telling her to quit her job, which is why it led me to believe the charm option was the best.

[kesat]

Well, yes - the text is a pretty misleading, i agree. But fortunately it's the only case where a major decision like this is not very accurate about your actions.
In any other case later on you usually should be pretty well aware what's is going on (ofc you don't know exactly what's going to happen in the aftermath - that's part of the game).

[Garrett]

Originally posted by Six Sticks:

What a kick in the balls by the devs. Come on m8, I use that same charm with the same blue text on every civilian I come across and everything is fine, nobody turns into some crazy ♥♥♥ zombie.

But then I use it on Dorothy Crane, expecting similar outcome, and the entire district turns to madness.

.....Really feeling cheated on this option since I did my best to preserve everyones lives, even the bad apples of the districts.

I wish there was a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ save game option. I'd love to be able to easily go back and try other things.

[Mandra_One]

Originally posted by Garrett:

Originally posted by Six Sticks:

What a kick in the balls by the devs. Come on m8, I use that same charm with the same blue text on every civilian I come across and everything is fine, nobody turns into some crazy ♥♥♥ zombie.

But then I use it on Dorothy Crane, expecting similar outcome, and the entire district turns to madness.

.....Really feeling cheated on this option since I did my best to preserve everyones lives, even the bad apples of the districts.

I wish there was a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ save game option. I'd love to be able to easily go back and try other things.

It will never happen. Dontnod wants to raise awareness about the decisions we make, consequences of our actions. That's the beauty of the game in the end.

[[Countess]Vol†z]

Yeah the text could have been "control" instead of "charm"

[Firehex]

There was already topic about this case, many people agreed with you what text of option and outcome was not fair. I got in same trap too.
I'm interested in - if i kill her in vampire form, would it count as kill of civilian ? Is there any achievment of completion game in pure peaceful way ?

[kesat]

Originally posted by Firehex:

I'm interested in - if i kill her in vampire form, would it count as kill of civilian ? Is there any achievment of completion game in pure peaceful way ?

There are currently some other thread about this topic in particular: No, it doesn't count as a civilian kill - you can still get the achievement.

[Worthless Being]

Originally posted by Garrett:

Originally posted by Six Sticks:

What a kick in the balls by the devs. Come on m8, I use that same charm with the same blue text on every civilian I come across and everything is fine, nobody turns into some crazy ♥♥♥ zombie.

But then I use it on Dorothy Crane, expecting similar outcome, and the entire district turns to madness.

.....Really feeling cheated on this option since I did my best to preserve everyones lives, even the bad apples of the districts.

I wish there was a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ save game option. I'd love to be able to easily go back and try other things.

The fourth screen of the game tells you to assume the consequences of your actions.

It's revealing really. You are incapable of accepting that sometimes you can make the wrong choice.

This game is not for you.

[kesat]

Originally posted by Starkalam:

This game is not for you.

I wouldn't say that. People just need to get used to games that don't allow you to revert your decisions if you don't like the outcome.

e.g. i disliked it also that choosing the wrong dialogue option excludes you from getting clues sometimes. after a while i just learned to accept it and didn't care about it anymore.

And the point is: unless you are actually killing people in these decisions it's not a major issue regarding the game ending. (if you are killing people anyway, than it's still not an issue).

[Worthless Being]

Originally posted by kesat:

Originally posted by Starkalam:

This game is not for you.

I wouldn't say that. People just need to get used to games that don't allow you to revert your decisions if you don't like the outcome.

e.g. i disliked it also that choosing the wrong dialogue option excludes you from getting clues sometimes. after a while i just learned to accept it and didn't care about it anymore.

And the point is: unless you are actually killing people in these decisions it's not a major issue regarding the game ending. (if you are killing people anyway, than it's still not an issue).

I share your feeling. But what I've seen since the release of the game is this absolute refusal to adapt, and insulting the devs for deciding to make the game that way.

So of course I'm not going to be as optimistic as you are.

[Chalkstix]

I think one of my biggest issues with the "decisions" in the game is that a lot of the outcomes seem a bit random. With Dorothea I was convinced that "sparing" her would simply not be enough, that she would continue her blackmail of Lady Ashburn (since helping her community seemed a lot more important to her than anything else). And so I was convinced that charming her was the only outcome where she wouldn't be killed by my hand or by Lady Ashburn's (when she would eventually find out). Even if you spare or charm all the NPC's, you won't get an achievement. If you want the achievement, you have to make sure they all live, which means starting a new game if someone dies. And you have to hope that you don't come across NPCs who need rescue while you're too low level to rescue them. You can't go to sleep and level up since they'll die if you don't rescue them right away, and the leveling system is very poorly made. The most important thing doesn't seem to be what abilities you pick, how much HP you get, etc. The most important thing seems to be levels - more specifically your level compared to the enemy you're fighting. If you're too low lvl, they'll hit you so much harder and you'll hit them for almost nothing. Even the weakest human enemies will kick your buttocks if they are 10ish lvls higher than you. But then again... It's not like you're Merlin's Champion, Elder Vampire incarnate... Or is it...

[Firehex]

Originally posted by Chalkstix:

I think one of my biggest issues with the "decisions" in the game is that a lot of the outcomes seem a bit random. With Dorothea I was convinced that "sparing" her would simply not be enough, that she would continue her blackmail of Lady Ashburn (since helping her community seemed a lot more important to her than anything else). And so I was convinced that charming her was the only outcome where she wouldn't be killed by my hand or by Lady Ashburn's (when she would eventually find out). Even if you spare or charm all the NPC's, you won't get an achievement. If you want the achievement, you have to make sure they all live, which means starting a new game if someone dies. And you have to hope that you don't come across NPCs who need rescue while you're too low level to rescue them. You can't go to sleep and level up since they'll die if you don't rescue them right away, and the leveling system is very poorly made. The most important thing doesn't seem to be what abilities you pick, how much HP you get, etc. The most important thing seems to be levels - more specifically your level compared to the enemy you're fighting. If you're too low lvl, they'll hit you so much harder and you'll hit them for almost nothing. Even the weakest human enemies will kick your buttocks if they are 10ish lvls higher than you. But then again... It's not like you're Merlin's Champion, Elder Vampire incarnate... Or is it...

Well, i made quite a lot of quests on 6 lvl while enemies were 14-16 lvl and figts are fine... Until you met 3 16 lvl at once, but still managable to win. But you're are right - if you any miss hit, then you can lose about 30-50% of your hp (i didn't upgrade it).
In my current game progress i feel what i don't wish to replay it again after i'll finish it. Devs need to implent new game + or some way to boosts player, if he want to replay, because lvling and doing all quests again from zero will be totally boring.