Wolcen: Lords of Mayhem

Wolcen: Lords of Mayhem

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Nitto Apr 2, 2023 @ 8:08am
Railgunner Squad or Livor Mortis for Summoner Build?
3 toxic hunting swarm and 3 livor mortis with material dmg is the staple for damage focused summoner builds, but what about the new raillgunner squad added in the last patch? Has anyone tested if it's better than livor mortis?
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Showing 1-15 of 65 comments
War Maiden Apr 2, 2023 @ 8:23am 
Personally, I would go with one Liver mortis, shadow specced and 15% absorb. Three sets of shadow specced, piercing, AOE exploding arrow plagued archers. I didn't like the railgunners because they take too long to kneel, set up the shot, rinse & repeat, unlike when archers just AOE blast the whole area in less than 3 second intervals. 9 piercing, exploding missiles every three seconds guarantees better coverage and consistent coverage of the battlespace. The three railgunners will not be able to keep up, which is why I decided not to use them in my Summoner build.
Pizzarugi Apr 2, 2023 @ 8:33am 
While the combined average damage of the railgunners is higher than Livor Mortis, bear in mind they don't benefit from the GoF passive which grants them +1 projectiles, meaning Livor Mortis ends up winning out on that if going rend.

The other issue with Railgunners is that their attack speed is awful by comparison. Livor Mortis can get several shots out in the same time it takes a railgunner to fire once. The devs would need to buff their attack speed or otherwise increase damage considerably to bring them on par with Livor Mortis or Hunting Swarm, especially with their lack of ability from benefiting off the +1 projectile passive I mentioned earlier.

That all being said, they're a good fill-in minion for early/midgame when you haven't unlocked the ability to duplicate skills. I'd rather have them than nothing at all.
Last edited by Pizzarugi; Apr 2, 2023 @ 8:36am
Katitoff Apr 2, 2023 @ 10:03am 
I have tried railgunners.
Hunting swarm outperforms them so badly its not even funny.

I don't even know why we got that skill, literally any other skill is better and they are just bad, slow archer skellies, but also more squishy, with fraction of DPS and different elements.

I wouldn't use them for anything else then passive dps while leveling 1st char.

As it stands now, they would need 5 to 10 times higher base damage to be on pair with hunting swarm.
Last edited by Katitoff; Apr 2, 2023 @ 10:04am
You guys ain't making use of parasite with ailments as a summoner? You missing out.
Nitto Apr 2, 2023 @ 11:42am 
Seems like railgunners are a no go then, thanks for the feedback.
Nitto Apr 2, 2023 @ 11:43am 
Originally posted by The Emperor Of Milfgaard:
You guys ain't making use of parasite with ailments as a summoner? You missing out.
Is it worth it to sacrifice a summon for the parasite? never tried that.
If you go for applying ailments then definitely. You can get absolutely insane single target dmg.
Pizzarugi Apr 2, 2023 @ 11:47am 
Originally posted by The Emperor Of Milfgaard:
You guys ain't making use of parasite with ailments as a summoner? You missing out.
Eh. The problem with Parasite is that, unlike all of the other summons, your minion is permanently lost if it dies or you swap weapons. I don't think it's worth trading a Hunting Swarm or Livor Mortis for that.

It's a shame though, because I like some of the enemies you can convert, like enthralled Hierophants, Purifier Veteran, (Frost) Tormentors, etc.
Last edited by Pizzarugi; Apr 2, 2023 @ 11:49am
War Maiden Apr 2, 2023 @ 1:11pm 
Originally posted by The Emperor Of Milfgaard:
You guys ain't making use of parasite with ailments as a summoner? You missing out.

I actually have Parasite as my main weapon, utilizing 4-8 Curse stacks, and i'm only level 63 right now. Plus it also gives me an additional powerful servant, which I usually take the Tormentor for their ability to heal themselves and dish out massive AOE strikes.
Originally posted by Pizzarugi:
Originally posted by The Emperor Of Milfgaard:
You guys ain't making use of parasite with ailments as a summoner? You missing out.
Eh. The problem with Parasite is that, unlike all of the other summons, your minion is permanently lost if it dies or you swap weapons. I don't think it's worth trading a Hunting Swarm or Livor Mortis for that.

It's a shame though, because I like some of the enemies you can convert, like enthralled Hierophants, Purifier Veteran, (Frost) Tormentors, etc.

The summon is irrelevant. What you want to do is use consuming embers to immed stack 20 stacks of cursed and stasis (if you skill into ailments and get 3 projectiles one use of consuming embers can stack 20 ailment stacks in one use of the skill). Then use another skill to add an additional 20 stacks of another ailment. With 60 ailment stacks you get 60 * 0.15 extra tickrate so:

4.4 (base) * 60 * 0.15 = 39.6 tick rate per second.

(with toxic enmity which stacks poison on enemies: 4.4 (base) * 80 * 0.15 = 52.8)

If you skill it on weapon dmg the attack does 1140% weapon dmg I think. With a good weapon that is easily around 40k per tick. Which puts you at a cozy 1.6 (toxic enmity: 2.112) million dps (if you count cursed stacks that is 2 million dps/toxic enmity: 2.62 million) while you also leech life for 10% of that. Pretty sure you can get even more dps esp if your 3 hunting swarm summons can also apply ailments and you use different versions of them. As well as get a better weapon. I doubt 3 livor mortis can do that kind of dmg, no?

Skills: 3 hunting swarms (those are your trash clearers), consuming embers (shadow), one attack skill (depending on your weapon, if you can get a strong dagger or pistol I recommend havoc orb since it has a relative high chance of applying ailments) and parasite (shadow). I prefer getting aether dmg to spells the most, so every skill applies stasis. Shadow to increase the dmg by 24%, and sacred to reduce the dmg enemies deal. Immo the occult ones are the most important ailments. To apply weakness (sacred) you might want to think about using block as your defensive layer. There is a way to get 100% block chance and 75% block efficiency without using a shield. Get the node that lets you apply weakness on block. Since you skill into ailments it would mean one block is about at least 8 stacks of weakness, with the right gear you can probably get more. Also don't forget to get the dmg on kill for ailments as well. If you kill an enemy with 3 types of ailments which should usually be no problem to do you get a very decent dmg buff as well.

Another thing that makes this build very defensive: if your clear is good enough to use two hunting swarms you can replace the third one with mark of impurity. This will increase the single target dps even further but also you can skill the slow of 25% of this skill. If you can get toxic enmity you get another 30% slow. Additionally this passive will also stack toxic ailments on your target which gives you another 20 stacks of ailments for your single target which further increases your tick rate by 20 * 0.15 * 4.4. Add to it the 24% slow from 20 stasis stacks....yea everything around you will be slowed so severely they can do barely anything.

So all in all this build has incredible single target dmg while also having very good defense. The clear might be worse, but clearing the trash I found never to be any issue in the first place.

You can have all of that by lvl 60 btw. Well okay not ALL of it, you won't be able to get the 100% block, thus I recommend using the typical rogue armor with dodge until you are a higher lvl and can get to that juicy block. Block in general is better than dodge. Dodge loses effectiveness the higher the enemy level. Block does not. Another thing, there is a unique body armour that can convert your passive dodge chance score into resistances. Which is also really nice to have. So you can get a bruiser armour where you roll dodge chance score on all of them and convert that dodge chance score to resistances. I am currently at lvl 74 with another build that makes use of it and with full bruiser armour I am at around 47k life while also having around 60% resistances as well as 100% block and 80% block efficiency. I like it, it's very tanky.
Last edited by The Emperor Of Milfgaard; Apr 2, 2023 @ 10:41pm
Originally posted by War Maiden:
Originally posted by The Emperor Of Milfgaard:
You guys ain't making use of parasite with ailments as a summoner? You missing out.

I actually have Parasite as my main weapon, utilizing 4-8 Curse stacks, and i'm only level 63 right now. Plus it also gives me an additional powerful servant, which I usually take the Tormentor for their ability to heal themselves and dish out massive AOE strikes.
Yea the tormentor is nice to have for sure.
Originally posted by The Emperor Of Milfgaard:
I doubt 3 livor mortis can do that kind of dmg, no?

I guess it depends on build. here is my pure minion build. I would say that livor mortis can do nice dmg. no?
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2956415195
Last edited by <W F> Ævil-Blondi-E; Apr 3, 2023 @ 2:19am
Aetrion Apr 3, 2023 @ 3:02am 
The railgun squad is kind of hamstrung by needing a melee weapon to summon it. It pretty much forces you to pick catalyst as your secondary if you want to use any other summons, and that just leaves you with some pretty harsh restrictions on your character.
Originally posted by <W F> Ævil-Blondi-E:
Originally posted by The Emperor Of Milfgaard:
I doubt 3 livor mortis can do that kind of dmg, no?

I guess it depends on build. here is my pure minion build. I would say that livor mortis can do nice dmg. no?
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2956415195
You are comparing a build in endless mode with 490k life to a build with 49k life at lvl 60-70

Malicious or dumb? You decide.
Last edited by The Emperor Of Milfgaard; Apr 3, 2023 @ 3:11am
Originally posted by <W F> Ævil-Blondi-E:
Originally posted by The Emperor Of Milfgaard:
I doubt 3 livor mortis can do that kind of dmg, no?

I guess it depends on build. here is my pure minion build. I would say that livor mortis can do nice dmg. no?
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2956415195
Like with your kind of weapon parasite has probably a tick dmg of 400k+. Which puts parasite at 26 million dps vs 8 million your 3 livors have. Like use your head.

To be exact when I skilled only some spell damage and ALL minion nodes (yes all of them) my hunting swarm had way less dmg than parasite per tick damage same for livor (even though minions benefit from both spell and minion dmg, parasite only from spell dmg). Which would mean parasite probably has more than your livor mortis. Which would put parasite at probably billions of dps. I dunno guess it depends on the build HUH?!
Last edited by The Emperor Of Milfgaard; Apr 3, 2023 @ 3:44am
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Date Posted: Apr 2, 2023 @ 8:08am
Posts: 65