Is this game as bad as Diablo 3

[FlyBoogy]

It looks a lot like Diablo 3 and even though I like these kinds of games D3 is terrible in my opinion. Does the game level your character for you and just give you all the skill? Is there 16+ difficulties because the devs could not be bothered with balance?

[uberfrag+.]

Diablo atleast saves your progression, Wolcen doesn't, it's random, sometimes it saves your progress after an hour playing after teleporting, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it takes 4 to 6 hours before it finally saves your character progress.

[Atomic Monk]

D3 became 100x better with Reaper installed.. I cant get away with this game.. it looks awful and the voice acting is awful.. Im not excited about D4.. its just the same old stuff over and over again.. for every game..

No devs are writing anything new, just making us upgrade our graphics cards for essentially the same game we bought 5 years ago except with DX 12, Ray Tracing and DLSS

[AH-1 Cobra]

It's worse than D3.

[Atomic Monk]

Escrito originalmente por crimsonedge11:

It's worse than D3.

Yep.. it is

[Elraad]

Wolcen is imo way better than D3.
More builds, freedom and fun 😉

[<W F> Ævil-Blondi-E]

Escrito originalmente por Elraad:

Wolcen is imo way better than D3.
More builds, freedom and fun 😉

Wolcen doesent really have more builds though. If you want to advance in endgame and harder difficulties there are basically just few good builds and few variations of those.

Also stat wise you basically just choose one stat that you max out. There are even less builds where you spread stats all around. You always just choose one stat for you as main and put 90-100% of points in it.

Game tried to mimic poe build wise only problem is that wolcen has 1/10 amount of different skills and also pretty small skill tree.

So i would argue that diablo was way way way more different builds than wolcen.

[Mike]

Escrito originalmente por <W F> Ævil-Blondi-E:

Escrito originalmente por Elraad:

Wolcen is imo way better than D3.
More builds, freedom and fun 😉

Wolcen doesent really have more builds though. If you want to advance in endgame and harder difficulties there are basically just few good builds and few variations of those.

Also stat wise you basically just choose one stat that you max out. There are even less builds where you spread stats all around. You always just choose one stat for you as main and put 90-100% of points in it.

Game tried to mimic poe build wise only problem is that wolcen has 1/10 amount of different skills and also pretty small skill tree.

So i would argue that diablo was way way way more different builds than wolcen.

D3 had very few meta builds to get through high GRs but the build variation in general was pretty weak even without pushing GRs.

Also stop with the POE comparisons when no one here is arguing Wolcen has more skill depth then POE. I don't care if the you think the game "tried to mimic POE", because at the end of the day there are so many ways you can mix and match skills/"classes" to make plenty of unique builds (that D3 does not have). A game like Grim Dawn, Titan Quest, and Wolcen will always have more variety when you are not stuck to 1 "classes" skill set and can mix and match to create your own synergies (as well as not being locked behind sets to make things work). Build diversity is even further expanded now that gear can drop with affixes to uses specific skills that are not usuable with certain weapon types (like a 2 handed Axe dropping with the stat to use a specific magic skill).

I'm sorry but between D3 and Wolcen, Wolcen wins on player build freedom and customization (thus leading to more diversity), even ignoring the number of skills, the system allows for much more synergies then D3 which will lock a barb to barb only skills, and monk to monk only skills ...etc.

[Xyyth]

Escrito originalmente por FlyBoogy:

It looks a lot like Diablo 3 and even though I like these kinds of games D3 is terrible in my opinion. Does the game level your character for you and just give you all the skill? Is there 16+ difficulties because the devs could not be bothered with balance?

No. Some people have gone mental when it first released and they continue to be arses.

[<W F> Ævil-Blondi-E]

Escrito originalmente por Mike:

D3 had very few meta builds to get through high GRs but the build variation in general was pretty weak even without pushing GRs.

Same thing with wolcen. There are not that many "builds" that can go high difficulty tiers. Exactly same way as in diablo there are just few meta builds in wolcen than can push those high difficulties.

Escrito originalmente por Mike:

Also stop with the POE comparisons when no one here is arguing Wolcen has more skill depth then POE. I don't care if the you think the game "tried to mimic POE", because at the end of the day there are so many ways you can mix and match skills/"classes" to make plenty of unique builds (that D3 does not have).

I think you need to learn endlish bit better so you understand what others write.
Wolcen tries to be mix between poe and d3. Its not matter of opinion or thinking. So i wil lcompare it to poe if i want since skill tree and aquiring skills is clearly copied from poe.

quote=Mike;3823032780413282403]
I'm sorry but between D3 and Wolcen, Wolcen wins on player build freedom and customization (thus leading to more diversity), even ignoring the number of skills, the system allows for much more synergies then D3 which will lock a barb to barb only skills, and monk to monk only skills ...etc. [/quote]

Wrong. In diablo you can make another character which will have different set of skills. In wolcen you just dont have to create new character to be able to use all skills. Aka wolcen just doesent have character classes.

Also i just counted and i have found 43 skills in wolcen. In diablo each character has more skills than whole wolcen. So i dont know about more diversity when there are way less skills

[Ghost | Severage]

Escrito originalmente por <W F> Ævil-Blondi-E:

Escrito originalmente por Mike:

D3 had very few meta builds to get through high GRs but the build variation in general was pretty weak even without pushing GRs.

Same thing with wolcen. There are not that many "builds" that can go high difficulty tiers. Exactly same way as in diablo there are just few meta builds in wolcen than can push those high difficulties.

Escrito originalmente por Mike:

Also stop with the POE comparisons when no one here is arguing Wolcen has more skill depth then POE. I don't care if the you think the game "tried to mimic POE", because at the end of the day there are so many ways you can mix and match skills/"classes" to make plenty of unique builds (that D3 does not have).

I think you need to learn endlish bit better so you understand what others write.
Wolcen tries to be mix between poe and d3. Its not matter of opinion or thinking. So i wil lcompare it to poe if i want since skill tree and aquiring skills is clearly copied from poe.

Escrito originalmente por Mike:

I'm sorry but between D3 and Wolcen, Wolcen wins on player build freedom and customization (thus leading to more diversity), even ignoring the number of skills, the system allows for much more synergies then D3 which will lock a barb to barb only skills, and monk to monk only skills ...etc.

Wrong. In diablo you can make another character which will have different set of skills. In wolcen you just dont have to create new character to be able to use all skills. Aka wolcen just doesent have character classes.

Also i just counted and i have found 43 skills in wolcen. In diablo each character has more skills than whole wolcen. So i dont know about more diversity when there are way less skills

43 usefull skills vs a total of max 10 or far less per class in D3. D3 simply has absolutely no diversity. Every Player in D3 is playing the exact same one or at most 2 builds per char class. And out of what ? 30 or 40 skills per class + 5 runes per skill, only 10 and less are actually usefull with only 1 Best in Slot rune out of all 5 per skill.

Atleast in Wolcen, you actually can choose between damage types and special effects/runes based on your need rather than "everything else simply isn't worth it/doesnt work" as it is in D3.

Also you're locked into 2 Class sets or less per class. There are like what ? 20+ sets in the game and some none class specific sets and all of them are trash in every way.

Meanwhile in Wolcen you have free choice of whatever the hell you want to wear, it does not affect your skills.

So, in my book, D2, D3 and D4 are all trash, the game series didn't evolve in over 20+ years and is still stuck in the same boring ♥♥♥♥. Wolcen is by far better than any Diablo, but still utterly trash. It has so many gamebreaking bugs, no real endgame just like Diablo. The devs broke more promises than there were updates for this game and the last act is just a damn bad joke. And even with all that garbage going on in Wolcen, its still far better than Diablo ever will be.

The sad part in all of this, there are quite a lot of good ARPGs out there but most of them, or probably all of them are clunky in one way or another and have no endgame.

Titan Quest and Grim Dawn are both clunky as hell. That gameplay style was good when Titan Quest released but is highly outdated in todays years. Also both have no endgame because they're story-driven. Even PoE is fricking boring after like... 10+ seasons.

Imo, the best ARPG out there is Warhammer 40k Inquisitor Martyr, that ofcourse, as said, is my opinion.

[Mike]

Escrito originalmente por <W F> Ævil-Blondi-E:

Wrong. In diablo you can make another character which will have different set of skills. In wolcen you just dont have to create new character to be able to use all skills. Aka wolcen just doesent have character classes.

Wrong, Wolcen actually does have character classes or at least weapon classes and you cannot use all skills in any build ecause they are locked out depending on the weapons you choose to use. Can you use magic based skills with 2 handed warhammers/swords in Wolcen? No, you have to either have gear to allow it or use hybrid classes with a 1 handed weapon and catalyst to allow selection between 2 types of skills. It technically has 3 skill classes that are divided into the weapon types you choose to run with.

Escrito originalmente por <W F> Ævil-Blondi-E:

Also i just counted and i have found 43 skills in wolcen. In diablo each character has more skills than whole wolcen. So i dont know about more diversity when there are way less skills

Wrong. Can you mix and match skills from different classes in D3? No, you are stuck with barb specific skills or sorc specific skills...etc. So mow many hybrid classes can you make in D3? Oh yeah NONE. In Wolcen you can make ANY mix of the 43 skills and combine them with each other (max of 5-6 skills per build). You also have the leveling of each skill which unlocks the skills nodes that alter how each skill works (like D3 skills runes except more in depth), then with previous patch they added ailment nodes that changes the damage type the skill produces, thus further increasing build diversity and theory crafting.

Once again either you have not played the lasted patch of Wolcen to really see the depth it has but it beats out D3 easily.

[<W F> Ævil-Blondi-E]

Escrito originalmente por Ghost | Severage:

So, in my book, D2, D3 and D4 are all trash, the game series didn't evolve in over 20+ years and is still stuck in the same boring ♥♥♥♥. Wolcen is by far better than any Diablo, but still utterly trash. It has so many gamebreaking bugs, no real endgame just like Diablo. The devs broke more promises than there were updates for this game and the last act is just a damn bad joke. And even with all that garbage going on in Wolcen, its still far better than Diablo ever will be.

The sad part in all of this, there are quite a lot of good ARPGs out there but most of them, or probably all of them are clunky in one way or another and have no endgame.

Titan Quest and Grim Dawn are both clunky as hell. That gameplay style was good when Titan Quest released but is highly outdated in todays years. Also both have no endgame because they're story-driven. Even PoE is fricking boring after like... 10+ seasons.

Imo, the best ARPG out there is Warhammer 40k Inquisitor Martyr, that ofcourse, as said, is my opinion.

You have some good points there. But youre right there is no point in arguing about tastes / preferences.

I dunno about how useful skills are in wolcen. I originally made melee build, but gave up on it because game kept killing me for no reason.
Then i respecced to minion build and yet i still randomly die for no reason even though i try to stay out of harms way.

I tried warhammer marty for couple hours, but game up pretty fast. At least first maps were really small and it felt a lot like reskinned d3 with really small maps. GAMEPLAY wise.

Base and items and skills are way better than in d3 or wolcen and i have no idea about endgame cas i didnt play too much, but i do believe you that it really might be way better game than all others you listed. Maybe ill give it another shot later.

[Gamerzilla]

Ummm, you can use any skill in the game with any weapon in the game. All that is required is farming gear that has modifiers allowing you to use whatever specific skill you want. Many uniques also let you use any skill in the category they have a modifier for. Example would be "Worm Tooth" which allows you to use ANY toxic category skill.

[<W F> Ævil-Blondi-E]

Escrito originalmente por Mike:

Escrito originalmente por <W F> Ævil-Blondi-E:

Wrong. In diablo you can make another character which will have different set of skills. In wolcen you just dont have to create new character to be able to use all skills. Aka wolcen just doesent have character classes.

Wrong, Wolcen actually does have character classes or at least weapon classes and you cannot use all skills in any build ecause they are locked out depending on the weapons you choose to use. Can you use magic based skills with 2 handed warhammers/swords in Wolcen? No, you have to either have gear to allow it or use hybrid classes with a 1 handed weapon and catalyst to allow selection between 2 types of skills. It technically has 3 skill classes that are divided into the weapon types you choose to run with.

Escrito originalmente por <W F> Ævil-Blondi-E:

Also i just counted and i have found 43 skills in wolcen. In diablo each character has more skills than whole wolcen. So i dont know about more diversity when there are way less skills

Wrong. Can you mix and match skills from different classes in D3? No, you are stuck with barb specific skills or sorc specific skills...etc. So mow many hybrid classes can you make in D3? Oh yeah NONE. In Wolcen you can make ANY mix of the 43 skills and combine them with each other (max of 5-6 skills per build). You also have the leveling of each skill which unlocks the skills nodes that alter how each skill works (like D3 skills runes except more in depth), then with previous patch they added ailment nodes that changes the damage type the skill produces, thus further increasing build diversity and theory crafting.

Once again either you have not played the lasted patch of Wolcen to really see the depth it has but it beats out D3 easily.

Wolcen does not have classes. different weapon enabling you use different weapon skills does not make it a class.

You can mix and match skills all you like, only out of those 43 skills there are like 10 skills that all builds use.

Sure you can mix and match skills all you like if you dont want to progress in games later difficulties, but if you want to make a good and viable build then there are not that many useful builds.

Skill nodes are not more in depth than diablo skill runes. Those are exact same thing and carbon copy of diablo's mechanic.

yeah... im not gonna continue conversation with you any longer. Its pointless to try to reason with you. You ignore my points and just push your own views and tastes as facts.

You like wolcen more than you like diablo? Good for you then you can just play wolcen.

[Mike]

Escrito originalmente por <W F> Ævil-Blondi-E:

Wolcen does not have classes. different weapon enabling you use different weapon skills does not make it a class.

You can mix and match skills all you like, only out of those 43 skills there are like 10 skills that all builds use.

Sure you can mix and match skills all you like if you dont want to progress in games later difficulties, but if you want to make a good and viable build then there are not that many useful builds.

Skill nodes are not more in depth than diablo skill runes. Those are exact same thing and carbon copy of diablo's mechanic.

yeah... im not gonna continue conversation with you any longer. Its pointless to try to reason with you. You ignore my points and just push your own views and tastes as facts.

You like wolcen more than you like diablo? Good for you then you can just play wolcen.

You are getting really defensive because I am just saying how the games are, you don't have to agree but if you can't stick with your points when the dicussion heats up then move on.

I don't hate Diablo per say, but the CONTEXT was on build diversity and player expression. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to see Wolcen has much more player expression then D3, in some many ways. Even if wolcen looked like a MS paint game the systems/mechanics are more cusomizable then D3. D3 has better things then Wolcen as well but that was not the discussion so I'm not sure why your getting all upset over what I'm saying.

The only reason I used the words "WRONG" was because you did it to my responses first, so I was just throwing it back your way lol.