Install Steam
login
|
language
简体中文 (Simplified Chinese)
繁體中文 (Traditional Chinese)
日本語 (Japanese)
한국어 (Korean)
ไทย (Thai)
Български (Bulgarian)
Čeština (Czech)
Dansk (Danish)
Deutsch (German)
Español - España (Spanish - Spain)
Español - Latinoamérica (Spanish - Latin America)
Ελληνικά (Greek)
Français (French)
Italiano (Italian)
Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian)
Magyar (Hungarian)
Nederlands (Dutch)
Norsk (Norwegian)
Polski (Polish)
Português (Portuguese - Portugal)
Português - Brasil (Portuguese - Brazil)
Română (Romanian)
Русский (Russian)
Suomi (Finnish)
Svenska (Swedish)
Türkçe (Turkish)
Tiếng Việt (Vietnamese)
Українська (Ukrainian)
Report a translation problem
Discussions Rules and Guidelines
9 
Report this post
...and their view of Vulkan vs. DX12 (considering the future):
Interview article URL:
https://www.dsogaming.com/news/id-software-on-opengl-versus-directx-11-and-on-why-it-chose-vulkan-over-directx-12/
Last stable CryEngine update was in September of last year, and 5.6 looks to be when they'll have full support for the API.
So how about we wait until the mess we currently have is ironed out and Cryengine finishes THEIR side of the problem before we start spamming the forum asking developers to do something that could ruin them (the company), and leave us without a game to play, yeah?
And even after that your proselytising isn't going to circumvent any budget and workforce constraints...unless they're working on it in the background for that level of support (which they've openly said they aren't), then nothing you post here is going to make any difference. They're in-industry developers. They know good and well about the API and its usefullness, but it isn't not going to be any use if adding it to the game causes the company to run out of funding in the process...
I will say that Vulkan API on DOOM did get me better frame rates than DX11 did, but that might not be the case for every single game. We can't take favorable API results from 1 freaking game, and apply that to mean that it's going to be better for each and every single game. None of us here, other than the Wolcen development team are qualified to make that determination.
Cryengine does fully support OpenGL (since June 2015), another cross-platform open standard. DOOM 2016 proves OpenGL is viable as an API to produce AAA quality games. The Wolcen team could use OpenGL and later introduce Vulkan support just like id Software did.
I get that you are scared and see the Wolcen team as a fledgling team. However, game development (and software development in general) is really not for the timid or shy. Its for those who are passionate about building and creating. Its for the creative types with sharp minds, strong problem solving skills, and the ability to adapt. From what I've seen so far the Wolcen team has the qualities described above.
If the Wolcen team are saying that they are going to support Linux then let them support Linux fully. Why should those of us on Linux be treated as second class customers and be relegated to spectator status while those on Windows are allowed hands on testing? Let go of your fear and let the team rise to the challenge.
Also, there are selling early access on Steam. They are generating capital to fund their development efforts. Who ever is wearing the management hat has to deal with managing, which includes bringing in more resources (money, people, etc.) if need be. My US currency spent on early access is just as good as anyone else's currency.
Nice try with the "armchair developer" stab. Did you read the excerpt on why id Software chose OpenGL and Vulkan or the entire interview article? Why are you assuming that what is presented is just favorable API results? OpenGL has a longer history than Direct X. Its not some fresh off a restaurant napkin idea that a random undergrad student stumbled upon. The Wolcen team isn't a collection of geniuses with 10x the smarts of normal people, therefore we mere mortals shouldn't bother to think. You assume what my qualifications are, what the Wolcen team's qualifications are, and disregard the qualifications of the id Software team.
Just in case I'm wrong and I'm rocking an "Armchair Developer of the Year" pin... a 3D game engine should act as an abstraction layer to a large degree, shielding the game developer from the details of the underlying API (Vulkan, OpenGL, DirectX). This shielding, to a degree, extends to abstract the underlying OS when we are talking cross-platform 3D game engines. However, most modern 3D game engines, if not all, should provide the ability to introduce C++ code or other programming code to suite the developer's needs (usually low level or time critical tasks). I believe this describes the features of the Cryengine.
There could be a whole slew of reasons that you're unaware of as to why they might be using DX11 over Vulkan that have nothing to do with your view of perceived ignorance about Vulkan on their part.
If Vulkan was that great, more developers would be using it. Because the last thing developers want is to get their games review bombed over performance/optimization issues, and refunded. Publishers would be telling developers to use Vulkan, if it meant less complaints, and better sales.
Like I said - armchair developer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_Vulkan_support
Here is what the Ashes of Singularity developers are saying about Vulkan and it enabling a Linux port:
https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/looks-like-a-linux-version-of-ashes-of-the-singularity-escalation-with-vulkan-is-still-on-the-table.10224
Epic Games added Vulkan support to Unreal Engine 4, which will lead to Vulkan support coming to Unreal Tournament 4.
...and you said "If Vulkan was that great, more developers would be using it." Your words not mine. The short list is linked above and...
https://www.khronos.org/vulkan/
Look at them game engines.
I never stated or implied that the Wolcen team was ignorant. Nice try. Nice fail.
Tightly coupling code to DX11 means one is creating a Windows game not a cross-platform game. The Wolcen team can share the reasoning behind their choices with community if and when they want to. I'm not asking them for an explanation of their choices.
You said "...the last thing developers want is to get their games review bombed over performance/optimization issues". Your fear is showing. Your lack of confidence in the Wolcen team is showing as well.
Oh and you didn't get DX11 frame rates in DOOM. DOOM 2016 is based on the id Tech 6 engine which is fully OpenGL and Vulkan based. It won't matter if you are on Win 7, 8, 8.1, or 10, the game fully side steps Direct X.
Vulkan support for a number of game engines does nothing but further reinforce my point. If developers have support for it in their engines, and still choose to not use it, then there must be a very good reason for it.
It seems like you're trying to market Vulkan API. Yet don't come across as smart enough to be an actual developer or sales rep. What's your angle here? If you're actually here to shill for Vulkan API, you're doing an insanely bad job at it.
The only thing you were right about is DOOM not using DX11, and that was a mistake on my part. I only played the game for a few hours via family share. Vulkan API got the best frame rates.
I'm honestly neutral on the matter. If Wolcen developers decide to use it, fine, if not then I don't really care. But I'm not taking the armchair developer seat by showing up and telling them which API they should use on their game. Doing so implies that you know more than they do about their own game.
You have yet to state your credentials. And I'm not talking about unverified internet claims. Reasonable evidence would be you linking to some steam games that you're tagged as a developer on.
I most definitely do not believe in "Muh Vulkan", as that magical API sauce that makes every game run to its best potential. Because I'm not. and never have been a sucker for cheap marketing gimmicks. You sound like Vince from "Shamwow" trying to sell a 50 cent rag for $20.
And yes, Wolcen does have performance/optimization issues at the moment. But it's an early access game in alpha. You haven't proven that Vulkan can solve these problems. If Vulkan was truly that magical sauce that makes everything better, then everybody would be using it. And Khronos Group wouldn't need shills (paid or unpaid) like you trying to go door to door on steam games forums trying to sell it, if the product truly speaks for itself. The fact that they're not using Vulkan, and that they haven't bothered to comment on this topic speaks volumes. Not that they have to explain to you why they're not using an API.
Post your developer credentials, or prove to be yet another armchair developer. If you're a shill working for Khronos group, feel free to state that as well.
Thanks for sharing info about Vulkan.
However, I would like to remind you that we are a small independant team using CryEngine, a game engine we didn't develop ourselves with millions of lines of code.
Adding support for a rendering API in an already existing engine is a lot of work (talking about months with multiple people working on it) and therefore this isn't something we can afford to develop given our manpower and the amount of work we have to do for Wolcen.
If Crytek add supports for Vulkan in CryEngine (which they started to do but is still very early stage), we might consider it but otherwise we probable won't.
Full OpenGL support has been in the Cryengine since June 2015, which is quite a long time. This should translate to a rather robust OpenGL implementation and level of support, thus making OpenGL a cross-platform API option that is "prime-time" ready. Using id Software as an example, is to show how a polished AAA title is developed in a manner where the cross-platform decisions/considerations are a priority versus developing a Windows only product and leaving other platforms as an after thought. There is a difference between doing cross-platform development and simply porting a product to additional platforms. I'm well aware of the argument centered on the end-result; the product on multiple platforms. The difference is important because:
1 - I can not participate in your early access program because there is no native Linux game implementation available for me to purchase.
2 - My early access $$$ are just as valuable as anyone else's $$$.
I'll wager that you might say that it is not your team's intent to devalue one platform (Linux) while catering to another platform (Windows). My response would be the argument of end results; not making cross-platform a priority and tightly coupling the Wolcen code base to DX11/12 is tantamount to devaluing Linux and Linux gamers.
Not using Windows is my choice and I'm owning my decision. I do not wish to spend real money on a Windows product license for the purpose of upgrading to Windows 10 in a legit manner. I do not wish to be bound by the Win 10 EULA. However, I would love to run and test the Wolcen game on my bleeding edge Ryzen 7 1700X hardware in Linux, and contribute feedback to aid in development of the game.
Lastly, I'm aware of the published 2018 Roadmap as well as the arguments centered on time and monetary resources needed by the development team. However, I believe I've proposed a civil, and passionate counter proposal to the published 2018 roadmap. You guys stepped into the big leagues of game development. Welcome to the big leagues of game development challenges. Congratulations on cultivating a passionate community around your team and game.
You level of credibility has been mined by your lvl1 Steam Account and by your penguin avatar.
Who the hell would use a penguin avatar, seriously.
If you're not using a Windows platform, then you're not a serious gamer. The amount of people using Linux are an extreme minority.
Why would they waste time just so a small minority of people can play the game that could take away from other areas, such as adding more content and squshing out bugs?
Time constraints was the reason given, and that's logically one of the reasons that a lot of developers aren't using Vulkan. Which means that Vulkan is not like magic.
Consider providing me with an evaluation copy of the game when a Linux client is ready for testing. Since I can't participate in the early access consider me waiting for the Linux client to be the equivalent of buying an early access copy. It will be a nice way of rewarding patience. If there is a means of signing up to be a tester of the Linux client let me know. I'll spread the word.