Map "fog of war" in space?

[Varivox]

So, overall, I like the game so far. It's SPG2 with a few new snazy things (so far) but one thing that annoyed me in SPG2 that was carried over (and, imo, made worse) is the map's "fog of war" idea.

I mean, we are supposed to be in a futuristic universe where we've mastered space ships, interstellar travel, lazers and such, but we've forgotten basic cartography? When I go to Europe for example, I buy a map and... I know where most basic things are. In SPG though, I have a space ship and no idea what is going on beyond that when I start out. EVERY game in SPG is basicly just me as Christopher Columbus but re-re-re-re-remapping things that should be common knowledge. When I go to Europe, I buy a map, I don't re-map the place as I go (this summer I discovered the lost civilization of Spain and claimed Barcelona for the US!). My map may not have finer details, but I at least know where major cities are (Spaceports) and countries (planets).

I get wanting to have a sense of exploration, but there is no where I've seen that hasn't already been explored. I see no reason (beyond me being the most idiotic starship captain ever) for me not to know where major things are. I should, imo, already have a map of which planets are where, where major spaceports are, and general ideas as to where "Giant radiation field of doom" is.

I also feel that, the new game is the best opportunity to fix it while also allowing a sense of exploration. I may know where planets/stations are, but maybe I don't know where military installations or fleets are. I feel like the fog of war is an unneccesary and forced way to create a false sense of exploration.

Look at Skyrim for example. Open the map up at level one and you know where major towns are, you know the terrain (rivers and mountains) but you don't inately know where the local grocer is or dungeons are and such. I would much rather have things to actually discover rather than just be an incompetent leader of a space empire.

[Zenoslaf]

Agreed, some things will have to be visible on the map at all times, like planets for example.
Other idea is to have some kind of relays that will uncover parts of the region when deployed. Some kind of fog of war will be there, you won't be able to see every object in the whole universe, but suns and planets should be always visible.

[lee_harvey_oswald]

I have another ♥♥♥♥♥ as well.... How do you find ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ garrisons short of driving over the top of them.... If that is the way... surely it should be possible with tasking one of your military fleets with a recon mission to find the garrison...

It seems incredibly clunky that you have to go back and forth across an enemy sector just to find a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ garrison. Maybe I'm missing something I don't know... but given it is early access maybe how to do it has never been explained....

I dont' agree with teh fog of war.. you can't hide things in space at least not all that well anyway... if we can with our technology find planets 20 light years away surely the SPG world they can figure a way of doing deep space recon without having to stumble across space like some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ pokemon go player looking for an invisible thing.

[Zenoslaf]

Garrisons fade out of view when you zoom out the map. If you zoom in, smaller structures like garrisons will appear. ;)

[Luceon]

Originally posted by Zeno - Gemini Warlord:

Garrisons fade out of view when you zoom out the map. If you zoom in, smaller structures like garrisons will appear. ;)

I don't believe that is what lee was referring to, as I have noticed this as well. When I wander into a new sector and clearing the fog I will sometimes never discover the garrison. I can take note of this by these sectors having a fleet sitting in a location and then fly over to it. I can even get so close as to see the garrison in my field of view but open the map to see that the map thinks it doesnt exist untill I am nearly close enough engage it. This is very problematic with how large the map and how much space there is to travel through as so far the only identifying way to know if there is a garrison that I didn't happen accross close enough is to find a fleet, but if that sector has no fleet but it does a garrison then the player will be stuck wandering about for a long time.

As for the fog of war, I simply agree. There are other ways to make exploration a feature without blinding the player to this degree.

[ponsemen_bg]

Keep in mind guys that not every single zone has a Garrison , there will be other ways to thake that zones as where mentioned in other post's (and i strongly agreeed with that idea since not gonna be like "Hey Garrison >>BOOM<< that's Mine) i think that this will spoil the gameplay totaly!
Also for the fog of war yeah it is true that you have GPS those days map's and etc. but in the game this is not the case....Did Columbus had a Map discovering Amerika???? Did the Guys from Star Trek had map when exploring the New Frontier>>>> I don't think soo !!!
Yes i am agreed that some things have to be improved with the fog of War indeed but not to screw the exploring part of the game,,, Nope am not agreed!

EDIT>>>Also later will be other way's to travel around the map ,faster ways (as long as you discover them) soo don't think that in the finished game this will be a problem!

[Kele - Starpoint Gemini 3]

Originally posted by Varivox:

Look at Skyrim for example. Open the map up at level one and you know where major towns are, you know the terrain (rivers and mountains) but you don't inately know where the local grocer is or dungeons are and such. I would much rather have things to actually discover rather than just be an incompetent leader of a space empire.

We'll probably set it up similarly in one of the future updates.

Just a reminder: the reason there'll be "some" fog of war is because you're now playing the remnants of the Empire of Sol which was at war with the factions of Gemini long ago. They won't give you detailed maps of the system but you should already know the positions of planetoids, belts and nebulas from the previous war.

[Varivox]

Oh wow, didn't expect multiple dev responses! Kudos to the devs, I love seeing an active development team!

Originally posted by Zeno - Gemini Warlord:

Agreed, some things will have to be visible on the map at all times, like planets for example.
Other idea is to have some kind of relays that will uncover parts of the region when deployed. Some kind of fog of war will be there, you won't be able to see every object in the whole universe, but suns and planets should be always visible.

That sounds great, similar to how I think I'd like it. One thing that occured to me is, in the case of "moving" or "secret" things, perhaps a type of black market for buying the position of a garrison or fleet (I'd think some empires might want to keep such things location a secret). Another option is "buying" the position of security forces so you can sneak past places and smuggle.

Originally posted by Kele (LGM Dev):

We'll probably set it up similarly in one of the future updates.

Just a reminder: the reason there'll be "some" fog of war is because you're now playing the remnants of the Empire of Sol which was at war with the factions of Gemini long ago. They won't give you detailed maps of the system but you should already know the positions of planetoids, belts and nebulas from the previous war.

That was exactly my thoughts. I see no reason not to have the position of a planet, but the details should remain a bit of a secret.

Thanks for the replies!

[Responsible Fatherjk]

Maybe a cool idea is at neutral stations you can BUY the surrounding area maps etc. That would also work

[Zenoslaf]

It was also under discussion. One of my ideas were that explorers wpuld get maps of explored region they could sell, and other captains would be able to buy region maps if they are too lazy to explore. It's not something that's definitive, just an idea.

[mamz1512]

Hi guys just an idea why not make the whole map visible but to really reveal the map u have to do multiple scans. maybe first ping will reveal the sector with only planets/stations in wireframe mode. then get to scanner range to identify it, just a thought

[Zenoslaf]

Universe is too big for a simple scans. But please stand by, we are implementing new stuff in September. Can't confirm if map changes will be among them yet, but we will change some things to the better.

[Eric Cartman]

Planets and suns being visible, I can agree with. But I want to discover everything else by my self to be honest. Discovery is a fun part.

[Zenoslaf]

Planets and Suns should be visible, because they are not small objects, bit stations and other objects in the universe will have to be discovered.

[alexiwhw]

I agree with the fog of war idea, and with the concept of maps, but I really dont like the fog in this game currently. I hate having to spend ages drawing lines back and forth to reveal the next sector. Could it be possible to do one like SPG2 where you just have to fly into the border to reveal that section? Even if its a case of flying though multiple "borders" to reveal the whole of a large region?

[Zenoslaf]

Yes, that will be changed, you won't have to go like this and have these patches left on the map.